Bible_Gazer

What time frame is this 12th chapter ? 2000 years ago ? or Is it all future ? If its all future who is the man child ? Who is the remnant that are born from her also sometime later ? (I can't seeing it being Mary other children)

I personally have always looked at it that we are born under the curse of Adam's sin...... not necessarily sinners ourselves. The old covenant of the law didn't not promise us eternal life, but a good life while we were alive. I think the Law and the old covenant were actually to show us how lacking we as humans are..... much of an object lesson.' I think we are under the same penalty(curse) as Adam, we sin we die also. The penalty was passed on. as the scripts says - OT soul that sinneth it shall die - NT the wages of sin is death

Just to add some thoughts Daniel 2 metallic image From what I understand of it is that it shows who all was going to rule or control Israel people. And God deliver them at the end which is the Iron and clay kingdom. I don't at this time see anything showing Muslim alone is going alone against Israel at Armageddon . That would be another layer in the metallic image. So far I see the Iron and clay being Religion and Civil power, but has the strength of the Iron.

The bible says Jesus was of the seed of David and Abraham now those two were men. Hebrews 2:16 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Romans 1:3 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; I think Jesus was definitely flesh head to toes, inside and out, just like us. Now where could a sin be if it is a particle be located ? Jesus wasn't born with sin and neither are we. Sinners are convicted sinner (law breaker)

I know there is differences on time elements, but we have to consider not all is literal in Rev. for instance the beast gives power unto the beast for one hour. We are somewhat close on the seven heads kingdoms. At least we see the Rome and Ten kings coming. I am not one that uses Anti-Christ statement in Revelation. The Iron Kingdom will come to an end but not until they fulfill God's plan on Israel.

Then you would see that Daniel 7 4th beast is the Iron kingdom which started with Pagan Rome and went into the Papal Rome(got wounded) and is still alive but will gain power once more by the Ten kings. I do see the 6th and 7th head is Rome and the 8th is of the last one and still Rome(iron) I do see the sea beast is already history(1,260 years in the dark ages)but still alive in parts.

I do think the little horn of Daniel 7 is the Rev.13 Sea Beast speaking great things. I think the sea Beast is the 7th head reigning, but this is history to me of the RC church during the dark ages. But is coming back again. I have had in my mind that the Eighth Beast with the Ten Kings would go against Israel - Ezek. 38, 39 God caused them to agree to come together for a purpose. Just thinking how Israel would be a part of system.

5 WERE: Egypt Assyria Babylon (gold/lion) Persia (silver/bear) Greece (bronze/leopard) ONE IS Roman Empire (iron/beast) ONE IS TO COME AND WILL REMAIN A LITTLE WHILE: Rome/Istanbul (two feet of iron and clay) (still the beast) EIGHTH KINGDOM: Rome sets up ten countries in the Middle East (ten toes/ten horns) (still the beast) I agree with most of the past Kingdoms Istanbul is a new one for me. So how is Rome/Istanbul the image of Roman empire ? Which beast got wounded ? I thought the eighth Beast would be actually the image since it says it is of the seven.( revive at a later time) I know the horns may look like it sets them apart, but the woman is a mother to something, possibly making them two elements. but one False prophet. Istanbul is merely the modern name for the city of Constantinople, the other capital of the Roman empire. You say there are seven beasts, but they are actually 7 heads representing seven consecutive empres. One of the heads got wounded, so to me this is clearly the 6th one, the Roman empire. It split into two kingdoms (Rome/Turkey) and this wound has never been healed since. When Rome and Turkey join again, this will be the healing of the wound. The 8th kingdom is of the seven because it is also is a kingdom that supports a worldly religion and dominates the Middle East and is consecutive to the other 7. Another ungodly empire. The woman of Revelation 12 is a mother, the woman of Rev 17 is a whore. Its the whore of Rev 17 that sits on the beast. So you are seeing that the 7th and the eighth are still yet to come ? They will be joined together at the same time and create Great City Babylon ?

5 WERE: Egypt Assyria Babylon (gold/lion) Persia (silver/bear) Greece (bronze/leopard) ONE IS Roman Empire (iron/beast) ONE IS TO COME AND WILL REMAIN A LITTLE WHILE: Rome/Istanbul (two feet of iron and clay) (still the beast) EIGHTH KINGDOM: Rome sets up ten countries in the Middle East (ten toes/ten horns) (still the beast) I agree with most of the past Kingdoms Istanbul is a new one for me. So how is Rome/Istanbul the image of Roman empire ? Which beast got wounded ? I thought the eighth Beast would be actually the image since it says it is of the seven.( revive at a later time) I know the horns may look like it sets them apart, but the woman is a mother to something, possibly making them two elements. but one False prophet. I think Rev 17 gives more details about the beast from the earth, Rev.13 kind of shows more of the religious side of it. I do believe its a huge system consist of different elements to be called Great City Babylon.-Rev.18 is tied in with Rev.17

What about the Eighth Beast ? Rev.17 There were seven other Beasts before it but is of the seven. List the seven and maybe we can get the 8th Beast.

How do you see Daniel 2 the metallic image kingdoms compare to Daniel 7 ?

There is at this time two groups existed - a family of life and a family of Death(Devil and his angels) Adam and Eve had a mind that can choose on it own. To choose to obey God(life) or disobey. I think they were told not to listen to this Evil being, which Eve called the Serpent(Revelation says Old Serpent)(angel of false light 2Cor.11:14) Trees in the bible can represent a person Psa.1:3 or a group Romans 11 Jews being the Olive tree - Gentiles wild olive tree. They had to stay connect to the tree of Life to have life.

That is where the minister of God is to give out to the People the words of God Once you hear the commandments of the Lord, then you will be judged what you do with it after you heard it. We are judged everyday by God words. We receive blessing, correction, chastisement, and even our future of life or death before we depart.

Another view as Omeganman says Revelation is part = past - present - future The time is near = must be for the early church, things they were facing - Even John was in tribulation The future does not exist, by faith we know it will, God still has a plan that he is following. He is still interested in saving more people, but who they all are to be saved is up to the individuals by choice. God still trying to find a true people, how they choose who they will follow. = example - Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, Rome, The Beast, The devil or God Revelation is given to his saints to warn about the church and the world powers.(The falling and rising) Yet Revelation shows the blessing to those who will be overcomers. Seem like pressure or persecutions changes people direction. God seem to test our faithfulness to stand for him. He told most of the seven churches to repent.

next 1,000 years God is still interested in saving more people into his Kingdom. We know not all will be saved during that time. God and Magog in Rev.20 are there. So its not really as some say Peace on Earth during this time. The Devil is just being put out of the church during that time but he is in the ungodly world. Those who make in the Bride(kings and Priest) rule with Christ breaking down the kingdoms of this world - first by converting or destruction. Revelation 2:26-27 (KJV) 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. So Jesus will clean up the earth during that time and change it into a complete new earth and heaven(converted people). Then the Holy City and God comes down from heaven. God gets what he wants in his plan. This is how I see it. This is just a condense version of it.

If you are talking about Daniel 11 and 12 Antiochus IV Epiphanes he brought swines(pork) into the temple. The Jewish Maccabees fought against him how I see it so far

Rev.8:13 "the voices of the trumpets" To me the trumpets are messages its the vials that does the punishment. God does usually gives a message before the punishment. So they are to me - literal events in the future

1Timothy 2:9-10 in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, Not to be too flashy(extreme), but be known for humility in Christ. Be conservative, don't show to much flesh to be looked at.

2 Peter 2:4 (KJV) 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; Jude 1:6 (KJV) 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. I think he was one of these fallen angels from heaven. Not created a sinful evil being, but he became a devil. Judas wasn't born a devil but became one.

Proverbs 23:23 (KJV) 23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding. All depends on what you want to buy and sell.

Hell upon the Earth somewhere ?? It does reads like some people's belief on Hell in the Ground. But hopefully this 5th trumpet(message) is to convert someone. Could it be chastisement or an example to other to convert ?

Humm ! Are we born with a sin ? What is sin ? Ezekiel 18:20 says we do not have our father's sins. Psalm100:3 Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture. God did not plant sin in our life. I think Romans 5 is dealing with Adults that have sinned, is not about babies. Of course all have sinned. You sin You die. Psalm 51:5 is saying David's Mother was in sin(a sinner) when she conceived David in a sinful world. and Later David was sharpened in iniquity. So I think original sin doctrine is not right. We can choose good or bad. There are scripture for that. Original sin doctrine seem to take away that choice.

Hot - would be those who became overcomers. Lukewarm - must be the self-righteous.- saying I'm rich, but Jesus said they were poor Cold - could be the weaker Christian yet still striving at that point when this was written and not being lost.

Well I did go into the Dome on the Rock in Jerusalem with a tour group. (Muslim Mosque) But I was also on the place of the old temple. I couldn't hold my wife's hand and we had to take off our shoes.(I don't think it was really a holy place) Only thing that I might have felt strange was being in Muslim security on the property. Since it was for Sight seeing as allowed and everyone knows that is the purpose of the group. I thought it was OK It is a learning experience of false religion and knowing what was inside the worship building. Man made I knew who was the true God of Heaven was. This was about 13 years ago.

What about Utah ? Obama only got alittle over 24% of the vote, the least of all 50 states. Strong Mormons and Republicans ????