1to3

Hi Harry's Girl ; just found this post. yes I can so relate, I also lost my parents at a relatively early age. My father when i was 13 years and my mom when i was 38 years. What is left of family ( is an atheist brother) who lives completely by different sets of morals. So I to have no real family of origin left in my life. I enjoyed reading you and also many answers from other posters that have given great advice and great biblical passages. I am middle age and still single. Like you I met a lot of (non christian) Mr. wrongs and mainly when you are a christian its not always easy to find a good christian man. At least that has been the case with me. And trying to change a man into a christian is not an easy thing to do,( I would not recommend it -been there done that-) because, if the Holy Spirit of God does not lead them to Him, you certainly will not. Because of my own past, I have also been more attracted to bad boys. ( because bad boys are unattainable) And this goes perfect with my abandonment issues and my problem also of being afraid to get to close with anybody) But in the playing/finding a mate process, part of the things for me was to bring them to God. -Big mistake and a lot of set backs to get back unto my good stable footing with God. I have had to go through a lot of my own personal healing. And i had to go through it on my own. Its only in the quietness of your own being and with God, that God is abled to heal us of our past and of our past grief from our initial family. At least this has been the case for me. Now i desire more than anything a good christian man,( no more bad boys) but only if God places one good man in my life. If not, I am now totally content with my single life, have enough hobbies and interests that keep me occupied. I don't place so much importance on people making me happy anymore like i once did. I have learned to place my trust in God and He is the ONE who is restoring me and bringing me peace , joy, and comfort, despite being alone and really with no family other than my animals. Anyhow, what has been written so far I have had to come to learn on my own, through the school of hard knocks. God is the only One who will fulfill your heart and give you peace. If you are miserable alone, you will also be miserable with someone, especially if you have has not completely made the Lord your God ruler over all of your life. I can understand however if you are still young in your twenties or thirties or even early forties, the time is ticking for making a family of your own, ( I myself at one point panicked about this and placed myself in a position to meet the wrong person for me) but like others said if its not in Gods plans for you, it is for a reason. I made the mistake of following my own will a couple of years ago in 2010, looking for Mr. right 9 again another bad boy, mr.wrong).( As i saw it, it was my last chance to make a family of my own) He was not a christian, and with many red flag warnings from the Lord. I could have saved myself a lot of heartache, that I consequently had to go through. Had I listened to God warning me, not to proceed further, it would have spared me a lot of grief and also a lot of effort that i later had to go through to get myself back into good footing with the Lord. So just to say, you are not alone being alone and that God is always with you. and thank goodness for social resources that can help us ( like here on "worthy") that can encourage us to keep on looking forward in our christian walk with the Lord. May God love, keep and protect you always; 1 to 3

Hi Carolina; Everybody is born with a fallen nature since the fall of Adam and Eve. Christ came to redeem us from the power of sin over our lives. Christ Jesus spoke a lot about the importance of forgiveness. Christ Jesus while being crucified said" forgive them Father for they do not know what they do. Christ Jesus said: if they hate you, know that they hated me first,be of good cheer, I have overcome the world. All of us have been corrupted one way or another through the sin that has permeated the world. When people are hurt and have not been healed form their hurts and traumas, they seek to go ahead and hurt others so to spread their hurt around, If you react to their hurt by keeping resentments over them. they have won. They have succeeded in implementing in you their very own seed of hate/fear. Don't allow them to succeed at this. follow Christ and His way. the answers are found in the new testament. Pray to God for guidance. For sure when a group of people or even one person in a group of people like in a workplace setting notice someone who is innocent, vulnerable, they will go and try and test how vulnerable that person is. A predator is always on the look out for to find a victim that it can corrupt and instill its sin nature into them. The best solution is to not show a reaction to those who are trying to hurt you. And withing yourself, to just learn to forgive them on the spot and let go of any feeling of resentment that may try to come and take hold of you. When hostile people see that , that they cannot get to you, they end up leaving you alone. These hostile people need Christ in their lives. Silently pray for them and keep asking God for guidance and protection .

There is such a thing as lustful spirits. They want your soul. The three last posters give you some very insightful suggestions. but really what you are dealing with is a serious spiritual problem. Untreated, you will loose your husband, you will further loose yourself, and you will end up quite alone and miserable. Looks go you know, and if you have found a wonderful husband, they don't come around that easy. Men have breaking points and usually when a man decides a marriage is over, he usually is not turning back. I think you have been hurt, traumatized in your past and this allowed for sin to make its home in you and with it have come spirits of lust. Of yourself, you can do nothing, you need God to rescue you from this. You need God to deliver you from this bondage and the spirits of lust that have latched unto you. what you have is now like and addiction. And this addiction is out to steal, kill and destroy you. Basically it wants you dead. The good news is that God can help you and deliver you. But its your choice to choose him or choose your addiction. The sad part is when we are young we think we have time, but the truth is this time does not last and what you build in your youth is what makes your future. You can build something beautiful with your husband for a lasting future or you can continue in your addiction and watch as everything you ever truly cared about is gone. I pray for you in the Blood name of Christ Jesus, that you seek Him to deliver you from satans lure and death trap. Because what you are in right now is a deadly trap that wants not only to destroy your life but your soul. I pray God give you the maturity to see this clearly, because without this realization, you are on a downward path to nothing and that includes loosing out on Gods love for you now and for eternity. Dear Father God, you know this young ladies heart, you know her past, you know her hurts, you also have given her a seed of faith to find You so that You can deliver her from of all that is seeking to destroy her. Father in the blood name of Your only begotten son Christ Jesus, free her of all demonic spirits of lust and addiction right now , cleanse her right now and Father God , please protect her Father God from all evil .Amen! amen! Amen!

Miranda Esmonde-White, a former ballerina and creator of the long-running PBS fitness show “Classical Stretch , teaches exercises that gently stretch and tone the body in a healthy and non religious way.

I just read this post, but I absolutely agree with you comment. the sins of the fathers are transmitted and until a person comes to Christ they are left with their generational curses. God can heal and restore what satan tried to take away. But its up to the individual to seek God with all their heart. God then comes and helps restore and gives a peace that this world is unfamiliar with and can never find without Christ Jesus as their savior. " Don't you also think that medication has ties to witch craft? How about the word pharmakeia" Yes they are not very helpful and don't go to the spiritual root of the problem, many times drugs just keep you living longer wronger. if you ever go to a site for people suffering from MH issues, you will always see most people there are drawn to the dark side and enjoy basking in it. Also if you read their comments you will find the majority have gotten worse over time because of pharma.. and then the consequence that the pharma caused on their body is irreversible. I have investigated this at length to write with my convictions. Pharma only makes a person go into a deeper sleep, a deeper state of unconsciousness, slowly searing away our consciousness from Gods consciousness.. Christ Jesus gives and freely gives and awakens us to Christ consciousness=righteous/truthful consciousness. Understanding what is right and what is wrong, through Christ consciousness is our healing, our restoration to wholesomeness.. Today this world make what is right seem wrong and what is wrong seem right. With each sin indulgence, it works to sear our God given consciousness into a devil rendered consciousness. The more we sin and not seek to repent, then the more we fall away from Gods way, Gods consciousness. When we repent and ask God to come make a home in our hearts, through His plan of Mercy and Grace through His only begotten Son Christ Jesus, The Holy spirit of God gently convicts our soul back into His right and truthful consciousness. It is the Holy Spirit of God that restores us back to Christ consciousness, helping us recognize once again what is right and what is wrong. the Holy Spirit of God is very gentle and He is the ONE who convicts our spirits of right and wrong. When things don't align with the Word of God, that is also a good indicator to show us that the way we are going or contemplating to go, is the wrong way/sin way away from God. The unpardonable sin is a completely seared consciousness away from God. But God can restore and redeem, if only He were thought. Never give up on God, always seek Him and His ways through His Word and He will restore back what the devil has tried to rob from you and your life.. Until a person confesses their sins and ask Christ to come make a home in their hearts and develop a daily relationship with God, their is nothing much God can to to help, if the person refuses His help. The majority if not all the population suffers from some form of mental illness. there are degrees "spectrum's" to mental illness, every mental illness has as a base of unresolved fear and anger. Part of healing is awakening to Gods will, through Christ Jesus, through Him if we truly seek His will we also seek to develop the mind of Christ. sin is what sears the consciousness away from Christ consciousness and the more one is traped/blinded/ hypnotized, polarized to sin, the further away they drift from Christ consciousness. God can restore back Christ consciousness in a truly repentant heart/soul. The child we were always intended to be, is the child filled with Christ consciousness. Matthew 18:2-4 2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Mark 10:15 15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. Addictions=sin cause mental illness, and the more one indulges in addictive behavior the more one shuts themselves off from God being able to help them. If a person is truly living in Christ consciousness, they seek to live away from sin and not indulge in it. They do so ,not because they have to, but because they want to. Because the Holy Spirit of God living in their hearts is alive and working to free us from the bondage of sin and not to indulge us further into it. If a person says they are Christian and living in their sin, without much guilt consciousness over it, they are only fooling themselves that they are saved. When you become truly saved through Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit working in your heart, you will be convicted of your wrong doings and will seek to live right and make things wright. you will choose to do so, not because you have to, but because you will want to. And the sins things you use to indulge into will no longer be attractive to you. This is also a sign that you have truly been grafted into Gods family. The good news: God has taken every single sinner who ever truly came repentant to Him and restored him back in His Grace. But you need to cultivate your seed of salvation for it to grow. To some the seed of faith is given but then neglected and nothing comes of it. (look to story of the sower and the seed Matthew 13 ) And the way to do so is to develop a daily relationship with God your heavenly Father. Just talk to him, ask Him to show you the way, ask for his protection, ask Him to help you to learn to trust Him more and more, and seek His righteousness through reading and living and aligning your life by His word. Food, addiction, sex addiction, alcohol addiction, drug addiction, money addiction, envy addiction, hatred addiction. lazy addiction,complacency addiction, all the the things the bible mentions that lead us away from God= "the lust of the flesh" lead us AWAY from God will for our lives. When we truly decide to live for Christ Jesus, the fruits of the spirits begin to manifest and the lust of the flesh begin to leave. It is a process but if you have live through it, you know that yes the WORD of GOD is TRUTH and yest Christ can change a person from being fearful, hateful to being a person filled with Gods love. When Gods love is manifest fully in a persons heart and soul, there is no place for fear and hate to make its home in that person. Some things that a person may have such as brain damage may never be totally be gone, but with God, you can learn to live and cope in His love with the infirmities that we may get from sin or from the sins of the fathers. but never loose hope that God can also heal. I say this because I have experience Gods healing in my own life. Before the fall of Adam and Eve, there was no sickness. Sickness is a part of this world system and the sins that comes from this system. Finding salvation through Christ Jesus is finding the way to LIFE and Life more abundant. That does not mean that there will be no more challenges once a person becomes saves, because virtue that is not tested is not true virtue, but what it does mean is that God will always be with you no matter what and He will show you the way to overcome the hardships, the fears, the pain that this world temps us with. satan temps us to fall, and he temps in so many ways God comes to heal and restore us back into His grace. Matthew 7:13-14 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Proverbs 14:12 12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Galatians 5:16-17 Study Bible Living by the Spirit 15But if you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out, or you will be consumed by each other. 16So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to one another, so that you do not do what you want.… 16So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to one another, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.… Most people look for a band-aid, a cover up , instead of looking deep down into the wounds 9 their own sins) and looking to remove the what(sin) is truly ailing the condition. You can't change what you don't acknowledge. Most people are spiritually asleep(blinded) , hypnotized by the world and its traditions and illusions of smoke mirrors . Waking up from this is looking to God and repenting to Him and asking His only begotten Son to forgive us, redeem us and restore us -wake us up- wake up our consciousness into His His Way of Christ Consciousness. In Christ we become His new creations, by the letting go of worldly thoughts, traditions and addictions and turning our lives completely over to Him..

Hi peeday; Just to let you know, your concerns are being prayed for.Please don't underestimate the power of Prayer. And please know that you are not alone. Like some have already shared, they to have once been thinking similar thoughts about ending it. I too have been at times so down, so low, and with no one to talk over about it, as it seems to be with me when i find myself at my lowest not one friend was around when i tried calling for help. But God is always around and when you call on Him for Help he answers. Yes I have been there with the those thoughts and when they cross the mind this is when we must not give them to much power, but rather give it to God to handle. Life has many challenges, but this is how Gods virtue it attained and by which we become more and more refined through overcoming each life challenge that presents itself. some days are hard, some days are tough some days seem insurmountable, I have experienced these to and some not to long ago, i have felt completely at wits end, but to every problem I have learned so far, there is a solution. And also to remember not to forget, there are also good days when the sunshine comes peering in from the window and the cat gently rubs itself close to you, and the birds chirp a new song and the dog wags its tail with hope. Feeling quite alone can happen when the burden seems like it will never end. But remember in everything ther is a season. We are called by God to be overcomes. By faith we receive, By faith we believe; By faith we learn to overcome. and by overcoming we learn more about the meaning of patience. Patience is a vitue /gift from God as is forbearance. God does love you and His promise is that He will never give you more than you can bear and through trusting Him a little bit on His WORD, trust in Him will grow and keep growing as you will begin to see the result of you placing your Trust in God and in Prayer communication with Him. In the quietness of your heart He will respond. Please give yourself this chance to experience Him doing this in your life. Where you are now is but a moment. Please don't throw it all away and into an eternity of regret. the Son will shine again, and if you patiently allow to give it a chance, It will shine brightly in you once again. And perhaps one day you will be responding in the likes that some are responding to you right now. I pray so, for you with all my heart. Let no weapon formed against you prosper in Jesus Name!. Amen! Amen! Amen! God protect you in Christ Jesus 1to3

Hi Chen; Just found this thread; sorry to here about your struggles, Just please know you are not alone, and like some have shared, and about their own personal struggles, just so you know you are not alone and here on this site, people can uphold you in our common faith in Christ Jesus and what He has done on the cross to help all human kind find Him once again and be reunited with Him once again so that we can have the assurance, that whatever we have to go through in this life and the trials we are faced with, God, if we keep seeking Him and just call on Him in prayer/conversation for help, guidance , healing, He somehow makes things more bearable and also can change a hopeless situation into one of peace, contentment and solace.. God is after all our loving Father, He is just waiting patiently for us to draw closer to Him so that He can be abled to work in us. God our father is not a forceful God, He gives us the choice to draw close to Him or not. But when we do-darwa close to Him- like the story of the prodigal son, our Father God is just there waiting with open arms looking to helps us as much as we by saith/faithfulness toward Him allow Him to I too am going through a valley presently and yes, I cannot say that it is so easy, but I know that I just have to continue onwards not looking or dwelling in the past but keeping forward in the Lord and doing what I can to make it through the day. Always keeping close to the Lord. It is in test, set backs and trials that our faith is put to the test. Virtue that is not tested is not virtue. But the word of God says that Christ our good shepherd, will never leave us or abandon us. Deuteronomy 31:6 6"Be strong and courageous, do not be afraid or tremble at them, for the LORD your God is the one who goes with you. He will not fail you or forsake you." Christ Jesus our savior, redeemer said this in John 14:18-28 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him,If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. 27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me*, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. I just found some hymns and audio of the psalms on video you-tube. I find that sometimes if I am too week to read, I can have a lie down and listen to good Christians musik and sermons and biblical readings. just found this today for you and also I will have a listen. *** Removed Links to YouTube *** I will be keeping you in prayer Chen and remember Christ is calling you to Him, Christ Jesus is our good shepherd John ch 10:10) He loves you and just wants you to keep drawing you ever closer to him,just because He loves you. In Christ Jesus Always; t to3

Do we have to bring the flat earth myth into this? This thread is about the age of the earth. If you want to talk about a flat earth, take it to a thread on that topic, I know there is a thread about that. Any attempt to hi-jack this thread into a flat earth discussion will be reported to the moderators. Just saying if you claim Genesis chapter 1 to be true and literal you can't cheery pick around that either in your arguments. That's all .

Not only evolutionist reject Genesis chapter 1. Many Christians do to, when they claim the bible does not express verbally a flat earth representation. In Genesis Chapter 1 it clearly states that God formed the earth first and then came the sum moon and stars on the fourth day. Genesis ch1 also mentions a firmament above the sun, moon stars and over that water. the only format for that to be, is a flat earth format and not a globe format constantly turning at high speeds around the sun. The Bible also sated the earth to be stationary.

Just make sure to not look up to protect your eyes from sun damage. (seriously not kidding) Also do not use your cell phone to look from there, it too can cause eye damage. From : http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/solar-eclipse-protect-your-eyes-by-avoiding-these-shady-glasses Aug. 21 solar eclipse The eclipse will fully obscure skies in parts of the United States while partially blocking the sun in Canada. Such partial overlaps of the moon and sun are all the more dangerous because the sun remains exposed to people viewing the eclipse. “Because it’s not completely blocked, we’re never safe from the damaging rays of the sun,” says ophthalmologist Dr. Cynthia Qian. Damage from looking directly at the sun can be incurred in just a few seconds. “The problem with the back of the eye is that there’s no pain sensors, so all this damage can occur without you even knowing about it until it’s far too late,” says Ralph Chou, a University of Waterloo optometry professor and president of the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada. Commercially available sunglasses offer insufficient protection when looking directly at the sun, Qian says. Sunglasses allow thousands of times more sunlight than is safe to reach your eyes. NASA says special solar eclipse glasses should be marked with the “ISO 12312-2” international safety standard on the label. Qian adds that looking directly at the sun through the aperture of a phone, camera or telescope is also unsafe. “Those systems are like when you use a magnifying glass and you can burn a page of paper.” Specialized adapted filters are available for some optical devices. Wearing eclipse glasses while looking through a camera or telescope aperture is not a suitable alternative; those devices can burn or melt the sunglasses, thereby affecting their effectiveness. The American Astronomical Society publishes a list of reputable sellers of ISO 12312-2 eclipse glasses. Qian says Montrealers who do not have eclipse glasses but want to directly take in the eclipse should attend viewing events organized by the Montreal planetarium and McGill University, where suitable protections will be made available. As the eclipse, special glasses that actually offer the requisite protections are becoming increasingly difficult to obtain. This week, Amazon pulled potentially shady glasses from its site and issued refunds to customers who had already purchased them. In an email to buyers, the company said it could not get confirmation from the supplier that the glasses came from a recommended manufacturer. “We recommend that you DO NOT use this product to view the sun or the eclipse,” the email said

So it looks like the majority here are in favor of cremation. I was raised to believe that a dead body should be respectfully buried and not burned. And so i am more personally inclined to desire to be buried where my parents and grandparents are buried in the same cemetery plot that my late father purchased for our family. About embalming procedures. Yes as O.o mentioned they are quite gross. and yes, if i can help it, I will make a mention that I do not desire my body further toyed around with or cut up so to place those embalming materials into me and to just close my casket and have me buried, as quickly as possible. A couple of years back , in the winter of December 25 2009, I had to care for the arrangements of a Jewish man I had befriended for a couple of years. This person i do believe God placed in my life for a certain time and purpose. That purpose was all about HIM. In any event this person -Eddy- 73 yres of age, had no family anymore. He was born Jewish. When he fell ill he had no family to care for him and so i took it upon myself to see be there for him and see that he get a proper burial. Because this person did not have a lot of money, I was thinking of having Eddy cremated for around $600.00 dollars and his ashes buried in the country place where i live. However because this man was Jewish, the Jewish social services were alerted from hospital staff , got hold that i was planning on having my Jewish friend cremated and went out of their way to contact me and meet with me to tell me that a Jewish person is never cremated and that the Jewish people have certain protocols of burial for their own. They told me that even though this man was basically poor when he died,that they look after their own and that they would even cover the cost of the burial and to just give them the governments $2500.00 dollars coverage that every person here in the country where i live, is allocated upon death for the coverage of their funeral expense. So Eddy got a proper funeral and also a beautiful stone where he is buried. I was even able to dedicate the burial stone as Eddy would have wished with the scripture verse found in Hosea 6:6 For I delight in Mercy rather than sacrifice, And in the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings. In the end of things, I believe Gods hands were involved in how Eddy got his final resting place on earth as in heaven. Eddyreceived a proper Jewish funeral, and got to be buried in the same Jewish cemetery as his parents and had a proper dignified place of burial. I believe God placed Eddy in my life for a specific time and purpose. in the time that i had met Eddy, it all worked out so well that I was able to take the time to spend with him reading the bible and torah and re-aquainting him with his Jewish roots and also brought him to having faith & believing Christ Jesus as our personal Messiah and savior. My faith also strengthened in having met Eddy. So to conclude, the Jewish protocol of burial is taken very seriously and they certainly to not think it is a good idea to cremate. I think the Catholic also have the same regards as the Jews do towards burial protocol. In any event, there needs to be a respectful way for the burial of the deceased , that I find in today's society, it is becoming something regarded as less important than it once was. I am grateful that my father, mother , grand-parents are buried in the same family burial plot. Many times I have gone to the cemetery as a place of silent reflection. I am grateful that this opportunity of burial was available. Its unfortunate that in many countries they are making even the burial of loved ones such a business that most people look to the most economical means of disposing of their loved ones. there was a time when burring a body whole and complete in a wooden casket in a allocated cemetery for the dead was a very respectful way of laying to rest a body. I am one that feels this way was one of the more respectful ways of burial. When I have a dead animal here in the country where i live. my first instinct has always been to bury them in a respectful way under the earth. The thought was never to burn them but to just to quietly bury them back in the earth and letting nature take its proper course, in nourishing back the earth . Just to say for me its seams as a more respectful and natural cycle of life to bury a deceased body instead of having it incinerated.

your concerns and inner instincts are correct , it would be wise if you also listen and heed to them and also listen carefully to the answers given to you and warning you. This week i was listening to a christian radio and the pastor in his sermon was talking about a man who fell for a pagan woman instead of looking for a godly woman and within a short period of time for having chosen the wrong person, he died an early death and a very painful death by his entrails falling out of him. this bible story can be found in 2 Chronicles 20-21 the story of Jehoram's Disease and Death There are consequences to choosing the wrong partner. And if you are choosing out of lust more than anything else, the reasons are really not the right and Godly reasons. Remember always, bad company destroys good caracter.

There is even a Masonic bible out there. There is a lady who presents the bible on a you tube video showing all the masonic rites and the pagan symbolism. It you google the following sentence, you will find the video on you tube. What's Inside the Masonic Bible? Let's Take a Look

As its been said having pets is quite costly especially today more so than ever. If you want to give it quality food, proper health care, and a nice life, you need the finances to do so. In certain countries they do offer animal health care insurance plans. Owning dog is a bigger responsibility than a cat. A cat is also a responsibility, however a little less than a dog. I personalty don't think its fair to have a dog that is kept all day inside alone, while the owner goes all day to work. with a cat you can do that. dogs need to be walked at least twice a day or when mother nature calls. They usually love the outdoors . They like activity. Also this is a commitment for the life of a dog that can go up to (if your lucky 15 years) depending on the breed and its general health. As your pet will get older it will be faced with more health care attention. Are you prepared to pay the medical bills when health issues arise? Are there more than one person in your family to care for the dog if for any reason you must be absent? If not, who will take care of your dog in case you are called away from home for some time? About doggie day care, if your dog bites another dog or your dog gets bitten or gets sick by another dog, are you ready to take on the responsibility, especially financially if that arises? Also different dog breeds bark more than others Where you live does it allow for a noisy dog if the breed or type you choose happens to bark a lot? Are you prepared to have neighbors complain if your dog barks a lot, especially if you leave it alone in the day time? Do you know that when dogs are left alone for a long time, they get bored, anxious and they can can act out and become quite disruptive and destructive? Especially when young, as they are curious and full of energy. Certain dog breeds are higher energy than other breeds. Certain breed also live longer than others. Certain breeds are more prone to certain illness than others. Are you making your homework in selecting the right breed for you and your lifestyle In choosing the right dog for you: Usually a good way to select a dog once you have determined what breed you want, is by having a group of dogs together and letting the dog choose you. The dog who chooses you, who comes to you and responds to you the most, senses it will be happy with you. There is a lot to think about. Dogs need to be trained to a certain extent . Do you have the time and energy & pateince to invest in being with your dog long enough to teach it basic things? Like walking on a lead, not jumping on people, learning to sit, lay down, come when you call it. After a while dogs pick up cues from their owner. They usually aim to please you so will adapt to behave as best it can. These are all serious consideration to keep in mind, especially before purchasing a dog. Dogs are very loyal to their owners. You will find a best friend in a dog. There love is unconditional. You can learn a lot from an animal. Especially if you take the time to be with them. They also will help you learn more about yourself as well. If you feel you have the time, patience, love, money,to care for a dog, you will be a blessing to it and it will be a blessing to you. If you do not have the time, patience, love, money to care for a dog than you will be a disservice to the dog and its life will be a miserable and sad one. There are to many dogs that are neglected, abandoned, abused. Let your choice of having a dog be one that is good for you as well as it is good and fair for the well being of your dog. Best wishes on your responsible decision making.

John 14:23 22Judas (not Iscariot) asked Him, “Lord, why are You going to reveal Yourself to us and not to the world?” 23Jesus replied, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make Our home with him. 24Whoever does not love Me does not keep My words. The word that you hear is not My own, but it is from the Father who sent Me.… Ephesians 3:17 Then Christ will make his home in your hearts as you trust in him. Your roots will grow down into God's love and keep you strong. I PETER 3:15; "...but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone that asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence..." James 1:21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. Colossians 2:11 10And you have been made complete in Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. 11In Him you were also circumcised in the putting off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christ and not by human hands. 12And having been buried with Him in baptism, you were raised with Him through your faith in the power of God, who raised Him from the dead.… Ephesians 1:13-14 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory. 4. John 14:15-17 If you love me, keep my commandments. I will ask the Father to give you another Helper, to be with you always. He is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor recognizes him. But you recognize him, because he lives with you and will be in you. 5. John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and remind you of everything that I have told you. 6. Romans 8:26 In the same way the Spirit also joins to help in our weakness, because we do not know what to pray for as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with unspoken groanings. Gives wisdom 7. Isaiah 11:2 And the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord. The Spirit is an awesome gift giver. 8. 1 Corinthians 12:1-11 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I don’t want you to be ignorant. You know that when you were unbelievers, you were enticed and led astray to worship idols that couldn’t even speak. For this reason I want you to be aware that no one who is speaking by God’s Spirit can say, “Jesus is cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit, and there are varieties of ministries, but the same Lord. There are varieties of results, but it is the same God who produces all the results in everyone. To each person has been given the ability to manifest the Spirit for the common good. To one has been given a message of wisdom by the Spirit; to another the ability to speak with knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit; to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit; to another miraculous results; to another prophecy; to another the ability to distinguish between spirits; to another various kinds of languages; and to another the interpretation of languages. But one and the same Spirit produces all these results and gives what he wants to each person. He gives us guidance. 9. Romans 8:14 For all who are led by God’s Spirit are God’s children. 10. Galatians 5:18 But if you are being led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. He is living inside of believers. 11. 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you? If someone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, which is what you are. 12. 1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? Scriptures that show that the Holy Spirit is God. 13. Acts 5:3-5 Peter asked, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart so that you should lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back some of the money you got for the land? As long as it remained unsold, wasn’t it your own? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? So how could you have thought of doing what you did? You didn’t lie only to men, but also to God!” When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and died. And great fear seized everyone who heard about it. 14. 2 Corinthians 3:17-18 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. We all, with unveiled faces, are looking as in a mirror at the glory of the Lord and are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory; this is from the Lord who is the Spirit. The Holy Spirit convicts the world. 15. John 16:7-11 But in fact, it is best for you that I go away, because if I don’t, the Advocate won’t come. If I do go away, then I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment. The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in me. Righteousness is available because I go to the Father, and you will see me no more. Judgment will come because the ruler of this world has already been judged. The Holy Spirit can be grieved. 16. Ephesians 4:30 And don’t grieve God’s Holy Spirit. You were sealed by Him for the day of redemption. The Holy Spirit gives spiritual illumination. 17. 1 Corinthians 2:7-13 No, the wisdom we speak of is the mystery of God his plan that was previously hidden, even though he made it for our ultimate glory before the world began. But the rulers of this world have not understood it; if they had, they would not have crucified our glorious Lord. That is what the Scriptures mean when they say, “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him.” But it was to us that God revealed these things by his Spirit. For his Spirit searches out everything and shows us God’s deep secrets. No one can know a person’s thoughts except that person’s own spirit, and no one can know God’s thoughts except God’s own Spirit. And we have received God’s Spirit (not the world’s spirit), so we can know the wonderful things God has freely given us. When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths. The Holy Spirit loves us. 18. Romans 15:30 Now I urge you, brothers and sisters, through our Lord Jesus Christ and through the love of the Spirit, to join fervently with me in prayer to God on my behalf. Third divine Person of the Trinity. 19. Matthew 28:19 Therefore, as you go, disciple people in all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. 20. 2 Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. The Spirit works in our lives to conform us into the image of the Son. 21. Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. The Spirit is omnipresent. 22. Psalm 139:7-10 Where can I flee from your spirit? Or where will I run from your presence? If I rise to heaven, there you are! If I lay down with the dead, there you are! If I take wings with the dawn and settle down on the western horizon your hand will guide me there, too, while your right hand keeps a firm grip on me. The person without the Spirit. 23. Romans 8:9 But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.) 24. 1 Corinthians 2:14 But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means. Reminder 25. Romans 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit gives us power. Acts 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere–in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth. To be truly saved, we all need to have a truly repentant heart True repentance towards salvation involves a change of heart. We are transformed by the changing of our hearts by the Holy Spirit of God working in our hearts. when we are truly following Christ Jesus, we have repented and have asked God to come make a home in our hearts by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God. That is why Christ Jesus said He had to go so the Holy Spirit could come and make His home in ALL our hearts. It is God in us that changes us, convicts our spirits, rebukes us and guides us. The Holy spirit cannot make His home were sin abides. sin makes the Holy spirit of God grieve The Holy Spirit of God cannot work efficiently in a person that is continually sinning. The Holy Spirit of God cannot live in a person who continues to sins as they are not truly saved. Do not cast me away from Your presence, and do not take Your Holy Spirit from me (Psalm 51:11). And she said, "The Philistines are upon you, Samson!" So he awoke, from his sleep, and said, "I will go out as before, at other times, and shake myself free!" But he did not know that the Lord had departed from him (Judges 16:20). But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and a distressing spirit from the Lord troubled him (1 Samuel 16:14). When we have made the decision to repent, =turn away from our sins, and ask God through His Son Christ Jesus who shed Hid Blood to cover our sins, to forgive our sins and make us whole in Him, we are inviting Gods Holy spirit to come make a home in our hearts. We absolutely need the Holy Spirit of God living in our hearts for salvation to be. And it is by FAITH in HIM that we receive. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever (John 14:16). Having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession (Ephesians 1:13,14). John 14:15-31 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. 27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. 29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. 30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. 31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence. The Holy Spirit of God comes to live and dwell in the hearts of those who seek, repent-turn away from sin- and believe -have faith -in Him. So there is nothing wrong after repentance to humbly ask the Holy Spirit of God to come make His home in our heart. God searches our heart, that is how He transforms us into His new creation. Beware of false religions that promotes salvation through the mind before any consideration of the heart. God works in our hearts so to transform and renew our heart that through this changed and transforms our minds towards the mind of Christ Jesus. But true salvation all begins with a repentant heart towards God and through His only begotten Son Christ Jesus John 14:6 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved” (Rom. 10:9-10).

Hello JTC; The article I was referring to on page 2 of this post was taken from 1 Enoch Full article: http://testingtheglobe.com/enoch.html

For those claiming the book of Enoch does not present a flat earth, why are scholars of the book of Enoch who quote the book of Enoch with referrals to a flat earth? You can even google the heading for a video with the following title: Flat Earth | The Book Of Enoch (Full Videobook) where the narrator is reading from the book and keep presenting a flat earth. So, it looks like some people see what they want to see when they read stuff. I know many people who read the bible don't see the Holy Trinity of the Father , Son, Holy Spirit , yet it is indicated in so many places in so many ways. At least I can see it. So, it is the same for me with the flat earth theory, I know I am not the only one to see it in the bible and the book of 1 Enoch, and accusing people of being backwards and with malevolence. There are people who have taken the trouble to write and make videos about it. I don't think these people are out to cause trouble, I think they truly see what they are reading in the way they see it presented. And if you read their views, they certainly don't come across as backwards. I do not think its fair to judge a person to be backwards just because they are questioning something and see something in a certain way and are pointing it out. Peace in Christ Jesus, no malice intended 1to3

Thank you Zoltan777, I appreciate you mentioning this. Peace to you in Christ Jesus.

If you research freemasonry you will find out for yourself what it is. There is a great you tube video from a man who once was involved in freemasonry and he gives detail by detail into what the "group" is all about. you can google the following to view it on you tube by googling the following words: Freemasonry - The Light Behind Masonry - Bill Schnoebelen.flv also Former Free Mason Exposes Satanic Rituals in Freemasonry - Bill Schnoebelen

I personally do not know if the earth if flat or round anymore. Up until January I was certain the earth was a round globe as we all have been taught to believe and not even question, until it was put to my attention, all that is now in the media concerning NASA coverups and the flat earth theories that have existed since even before the times of the bible and afterwards. What I was pointing out here of what is written in the book of Enoch as some here think it is a great add- on to the bible in understanding luminaries, angels, the giants, nephilim .... The book of Enoch also mentions the moon and the sun moving around a still earth that has a firmament over it. All I did was point the passages in the book of 1 Enoch that mentions it and all hell broke loose. People denying that it is even written in the book of Enoch. But it is. Look it up for yourself So there is no dialogue with someone denying what is plainly written in a book and then saying it is not written. The bible also points to a flat earth. beginning in Genesis chap 1 when the earth was created according to the bible before the sun and the moon. The only theory that could support a sun and moon rotating around the earth in a domed firmament is the flat earth theory. And there are plenty of biblical reference also pointing to it. The many passages have been already presented in a post by worthy member Oackwood concerning the subject. Same now with the book of Enoch that gives plenty of passages pointing to a flat earth. It is not me saying it, that is what is written in the book of Enoch. Look it up for yourselves. Scientifically with today's science , we are brought to understand, these do not support the bible or the book of Enoch flat earth theory. That is all I am saying. For me it does not change to much my faith that lives inside of me, just it make me more cautious about believing everything that is written .

The topic was about the book of Enoch. I wrote about what is written in the book of Enoch. If people are not allowed to write here in a topic on" the book of Enoch" what is in the book what is the point of bringing up the book of Enoch?

I just read through his book but haven't seen anything about flat earth. And I won't read your comment. That's just stupid. OK DOKEY you are as you think, by all means don't read the quotes from the book of Enoch that mention a flat earth a rotating sun and moon. That I posted that come from the book of Enoch Just avoid them , and act as they don't exist and pick and choose what you want to believe from the bible. You would not be the first nor the last to do so. Oh and thanks for calling my comments stupid, that 's real fine behavior innit, that really allows for christian dialogue.

And in the book of Enoch to boot the boot .

I am not derailing the threat, I have brought up what is written in the book of Enoch. I am on topic as the topic is about the BOOK of ENOCH some of you want to have your cake and eat it too. Well go eat it then.

I personally am not a fan of the book of Enoch, but for those who claim great things and insight from that book, If the book of Enoch is to be believed , it mentions a flat earth. The bible also mentions flat earth . And yes I am a believer of what is written in the bible and with the bible I measure all other heresays ENOCH AND THE STILL FLAT EARTH When it comes to the Book of Enoch, I know many want to dispute whether or not we should consider it canon, or even a valid source for deriving, confirming and/or elaborating on the canonized Biblical truths. Many commentaries have been written giving the various perceived pros can cons of doing so. For me, I have no need to consider it "Scripture." However, I do value it primarily because the authors of Scripture certainly did, even to the point of directly quoting from it, while under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Concerning the seeming ambiguities of canonized Scripture as it pertains to the issues being addressed here in this essay, I like the way Robert Schadewald handles the Book of Enoch in his online article: Ambiguities in ancient documents can often be elucidated by consulting contemporary documents. The most important ancient document describing Hebrew cosmology is 1 Enoch (sometimes called the Ethiopic Book of Enoch), one of those long, disjointed, scissors and paste jobs beloved by ancient scribes. For a dozen or so centuries, European scholars knew 1 Enoch only from numerous passages preserved in the patristic literature. In 1773, the Scottish adventurer James Bruce found complete copies in Ethiopia. Numerous manuscripts of 1 Enoch have since been found in Ethiopian monasteries. Turn of the century scholars concluded that parts of the book are pre-Maccabean, and most (perhaps all) of it was composed by 100 B.C. [Charles, 1913]. These conclusions were largely vindicated when numerous fragments of 1 Enoch were found among the so-called Dead Sea Scrolls at Qumran. * * * First Enoch is important for another reason. Unlike the canonical books of the Bible, which (in my view) were never meant to teach science, sections of 1 Enoch were intended to describe the natural world. The narrator sometimes sounds like a 2nd century B.C. Carl Sagan explaining the heavens and earth to the admiring masses. The Enochian cosmology is precisely the flat-earth cosmology previously derived from the canonical books. Excepts sourced from: https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm Whether or not we consider the Book of Enoch to be Scripture is irrelevant. If you at least accept it as having any measure of credibility as a contemporary Biblical commentary, you'll see this concept of a flat/enclosed earth is described in even more detail by its writer(s), thus revealing how the ancient Hebrews viewed the heavens, earth, sun, moon and stars when thy both wrote and read the canonized texts. For Enoch to have been so well preserved in multiple copies in the Dead Sea Scrolls and for authors such as Jude and later "Church Fathers" to quote directly from it, this shows us the book was held in high regard, at least well into the first few centuries AD. I contend it is still worthy of taking notice of in our day as well. Especially, when you consider the opening words of the book: 1 Enoch 1:1. The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. 2. And he took up his parable and said--Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come. I believe we are that remote, future generation, that was to come and live "in the day of tribulation." As many of you know, I published a book called, Genesis and the Synchronized, Biblically-Endorsed, Extra-Biblical Texts a couple of years ago, which includes the book of 1 Enoch. In the Introduction to that volume, I wrote that I was putting together a stand-alone version of the Book of Enoch with footnotes and commentary. As I began working on that, I found that when you get to about chapter 17 or so, you start finding some very interesting descriptions of heaven and earth, which sound a lot like the Flat/Enclosed Earth model. We will now explore just a handful of them here. Enoch's view on the nature of the earth: 1 Enoch 18:1. I saw the treasuries of all the winds: I saw how He had furnished with them the whole creation and the firm foundations of the earth. 2. And I saw the corner-stone of the earth: I saw the four winds which bear [ the earth and ] the firmament of the heaven. 3. And I saw how the winds stretch out the vaults of heaven, and have their station between heaven and earth: these are the pillars of the heaven . 4. I saw the winds of heaven which turn and bring the circumference of the sun and all the stars to their setting. 5. I saw the winds on the earth carrying the clouds: I saw the paths of the angels. I saw at the end of the earth the firmament of the heaven above. And I proceeded and saw a place which burns day and night, where there are seven mountains of magnificent stones, three towards the east, and three towards the south. 7. And as for those towards the east, 〈 one 〉 was of coloured stone, and one of pearl, and one of jacinth, and those towards the south of red stone. 8. But the middle one reached to heaven like the throne of God, of alabaster, and the summit of the throne was of sapphire. 9. And I saw a flaming fire. And beyond these mountains 10. is a region the end of the great earth: there the heavens were completed. 11. And I saw a deep abyss, with columns of heavenly fire, and among them I saw columns of fire fall, which were beyond measure alike towards the height and towards the depth. 12. And beyond that abyss I saw a place which had no firmament of the heaven above, and no firmly founded earth beneath it: there was no water upon it, and no birds, but it was a waste and horrible place. Is Job 26:7 (concerning the earth hanging on "nothing") just a confirmation of what Enoch is saying here? Enoch described a place where there was nothing. Job describes the same: Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing. Enoch clearly describes the earth on a foundation (like so many other authors as seen above). But he also describes a place beyond the ends of the earth. A place of horrible nothingness. Whatever your view may be, it is clear, either one of these authors has borrowed from the other or they both were inspired by the same Source. Enoch again describes this place... 1 Enoch 21: 1. And I proceeded to where things were chaotic. 2. And I saw there something horrible: I saw neither a heaven above nor a firmly founded earth, but a place chaotic and horrible. 1 Enoch 23:1. From thence I went to another place to the west of the ends of the earth. 1 Enoch 33:1. And from thence I went to the ends of the earth and saw there great beasts, and each differed from the other; and (I saw) birds also differing in appearance and beauty and voice, the one differing from the other. 2. And to the east of those beasts I saw the ends of the earth whereon the heaven rests, and the portals of the heaven open. 3. And I saw how the stars of heaven come forth, and I counted the portals out of which they proceed, and wrote down all their outlets, of each individual star by itself, according to their number and their names, their courses and their positions, and their times and their months, as Uriel the holy angel who was with me showed me. 4. He showed all things to me and wrote them down for me: also their names he wrote for me, and their laws and their companies. Enoch's view on the nature of the sun, moon and stars: 1 Enoch 72: 1. The book of the courses of the luminaries of the heaven, the relations of each, according to their classes, their dominion and their seasons, according to their names and places of origin, and according to their months, which Uriel, the holy angel, who was with me, who is their guide, showed me; and he showed me all their laws exactly as they are, and how it is with regard to all the years of the world and unto eternity, till the new creation is accomplished which dureth till eternity. 2. And this is the first law of the luminaries: the luminary the Sun has its rising in the eastern portals of the heaven, and its setting in the western portals of the heaven. 3. And I saw six portals in which the sun rises, and six portals in which the sun sets and the moon rises and sets in these portals, and the leaders of the stars and those whom they lead: six in the east and six in the west, and all following each other in accurately corresponding order: also many windows to the right and left of these portals. 4. And first there goes forth the great luminary, named the Sun, and his circumference is like the circumference of the heaven, and he is quite filled with illuminating and heating fire. 5. The chariot on which he ascends, the wind drives, and the sun goes down from the heaven and returns through the north in order to reach the east, and is so guided that he comes to the appropriate (lit. 'that') portal and shines in the face of the heaven. 6. In this way he rises in the first month in the great portal, which is the fourth those six portals in the cast. 7. And in that fourth portal from which the sun rises in the first month are twelve window-openings, from which proceed a flame when they are opened in their season. 8. When the sun rises in the heaven, he comes forth through that fourth portal thirty mornings in succession, and sets accurately in the fourth portal in the west of the heaven. 9. And during this period the day becomes daily longer and the night nightly shorter to the thirtieth morning. 10. On that day the day is longer than the night by a ninth part, and the day amounts exactly to ten parts and the night to eight parts. 11. And the sun rises from that fourth portal, and sets in the fourth and returns to the fifth portal of the east thirty mornings, and rises from it and sets in the fifth portal. 12. And then the day becomes longer by two parts and amounts to eleven parts, and the night becomes shorter and amounts to seven parts. 13. And it returns to the east and enters into the sixth portal, and rises and sets in the sixth portal one-and-thirty mornings on account of its sign. 14. On that day the day becomes longer than the night, and the day becomes double the night, and the day becomes twelve parts, and the night is shortened and becomes six parts. 15. And the sun mounts up to make the day shorter and the night longer, and the sun returns to the east and enters into the sixth portal, and rises from it and sets thirty mornings. 16. And when thirty mornings are accomplished, the day decreases by exactly one part, and becomes eleven parts, and the night seven. 17. And the sun goes forth from that sixth portal in the west, and goes to the east and rises in the fifth portal for thirty mornings, and sets in the west again in the fifth western portal. 18. On that day the day decreases by two parts, and amounts to ten parts and the night to eight parts. 19. And the sun goes forth from that fifth portal and sets in the fifth portal of the west, and rises in the fourth portal for one-and-thirty mornings on account of its sign, and sets in the west. 20. On that day the day is equalized with the night, [and becomes of equal length], and the night amounts to nine parts and the day to nine parts. 21. And the sun rises from that portal and sets in the west, and returns to the east and rises thirty mornings in the third portal and sets in the west in the third portal. 22. And on that day the night becomes longer than the day, and night becomes longer than night, and day shorter than day till the thirtieth morning, and the night amounts exactly to ten parts and the day to eight parts. 23. And the sun rises from that third portal and sets in the third portal in the west and returns to the east, and for thirty mornings rises in the second portal in the east, and in like manner sets in the second portal in the west of the heaven. 24. And on that day the night amounts to eleven parts and the day to seven parts. 25. And the sun rises on that day from that second portal and sets in the west in the second portal, and returns to the east into the first portal for one-and-thirty mornings, and sets in the first portal in the west of the heaven. 26. And on that day the night becomes longer and amounts to the double of the day: and the night amounts exactly to twelve parts and the day to six. 27. And the sun has (therewith) traversed the divisions of his orbit and turns again on those divisions of his orbit, and enters that portal thirty mornings and sets also in the west opposite to it. 28. And on that night has the night decreased in length by a †ninth† part, and the night has become eleven parts and the day seven parts. 29. And the sun has returned and entered into the second portal in the east, and returns on those his divisions of his orbit for thirty mornings, rising and setting. 30. And on that day the night decreases in length, and the night amounts to ten parts and the day to eight. 31. And on that day the sun rises from that portal, and sets in the west, and returns to the east, and rises in the third portal for one-and-thirty mornings, and sets in the west of the heaven. 32. On that day the night decreases and amounts to nine parts, and the day to nine parts, and the night is equal to the day and the year is exactly as to its days three hundred and sixty-four. 33. And the length of the day and of the night, and the shortness of the day and of the night arise--through the course of the sun these distinctions are made (lit. 'they are separated'). 34. So it comes that its course becomes daily longer, and its course nightly shorter. 35. And this is the law and the course of the sun, and his return as often as he returns sixty times and rises, i.e. the great luminary which is named the sun, for ever and ever. 36. And that which (thus) rises is the great luminary, and is so named according to its appearance, according as the Lord commanded. 37. As he rises, so he sets and decreases not, and rests not, but runs day and night, and his light is sevenfold brighter than that of the moon; but as regards size they are both equal. Whether or not David ever read the Book of Enoch, he certainly seemed to have had a very similar view of the sun as a male, coming out of a chamber (or portal): Psalms 19: 1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. 2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. 3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. 4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, 5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. 6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. Here is Enoch's take on the moon... 1 Enoch 73: 1. And after this law I saw another law dealing with the smaller luminary, which is named the Moon. 2. And her circumference is like the circumference of the heaven, and her chariot in which she rides is driven by the wind, and light is given to her in (definite) measure. 3. And her rising and setting change every month: and her days are like the days of the sun, and when her light is uniform (i.e. full) it amounts to the seventh part of the light of the sun. 4. And thus she rises. And her first phase in the east comes forth on the thirtieth morning: and on that day she becomes visible, and constitutes for you the first phase of the moon on the thirtieth day together with the sun in the portal where the sun rises. 5. And the one half of her goes forth by a seventh part, and her whole circumference is empty, without light, with the exception of one-seventh part of it, (and) the fourteenth part of her light. 6. And when she receives one-seventh part of the half of her light, her light amounts to one-seventh part and the half thereof. 7. And she sets with the sun, and when the sun rises the moon rises with him and receives the half of one part of light, and in that night in the beginning of her morning [in the commencement of the lunar day] the moon sets with the sun, and is invisible that night with the fourteen parts and the half of one of them. 8. And she rises on that day with exactly a seventh part, and comes forth and recedes from the rising of the sun, and in her remaining days she becomes bright in the (remaining) thirteen parts. Enoch goes into a great amount of detail in chapters 72 - 82 concerning the heavenly luminaries. I just posted the beginning chapters above. You can read the rest for yourself, beginning in chapter 74, here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe077.htm. In chapter 78, we read a bit more about the names, size, and movements of the sun and moon... 1 Enoch 78:1. And the names of the sun are the following: the first Orjârês, and the second Tômâs. 2. And the moon has four names: the first name is Asônjâ, the second Eblâ, the third Benâsê, and the fourth Erâe. 3. These are the two great luminaries: their circumference is like the circumference of the heaven, and the size of the circumference of both is alike. 4. In the circumference of the sun there are seven portions of light which are added to it more than to the moon, and in definite measures it is s transferred till the seventh portion of the sun is exhausted. 5. And they set and enter the portals of the west, and make their revolution by the north, and come forth through the eastern portals on the face of the heaven. 6. And when the moon rises one-fourteenth part appears in the heaven: the light becomes full in her: on the fourteenth day she accomplishes her light. 7. And fifteen parts of light are transferred to her till the fifteenth day (when) her light is accomplished, according to the sign of the year, and she becomes fifteen parts, and the moon grows by (the addition of) fourteenth parts. 8. And in her waning (the moon) decreases on the first day to fourteen parts of her light, on the second to thirteen parts of light, on the third to twelve, on the fourth to eleven, on the fifth to ten, on the sixth to nine, on the seventh to eight, on the eighth to seven, on the ninth to six, on the tenth to five, on the eleventh to four, on the twelfth to three, on the thirteenth to two, on the fourteenth to the half of a seventh, and all her remaining light disappears wholly on the fifteenth. 9. And in certain months the month has twenty-nine days and once twenty-eight. 10. And Uriel showed me another law: when light is transferred to the moon, and on which side it is transferred to her by the sun. 11. During all the period during which the moon is growing in her light, she is transferring it to herself when opposite to the sun during fourteen days [her light is accomplished in the heaven], and when she is illumined throughout, her light is accomplished full in the heaven. 12. And on the first day she is called the new moon, for on that day the light rises upon her. 13. She becomes full moon exactly on the day when the sun sets in the west, and from the east she rises at night, and the moon shines the whole night through till the sun rises over against her and the moon is seen over against the sun. 14. On the side whence the light of the moon comes forth, there again she wanes till all the light vanishes and all the days of the month are at an end, and her circumference is empty, void of light. 15. And three months she makes of thirty days, and at her time she makes three months of twenty-nine days each, in which she accomplishes her waning in the first period of time, and in the first portal for one hundred and seventy-seven days. 16. And in the time of her going out she appears for three months (of) thirty days each, and for three months she appears (of) twenty-nine each. 17. At night she appears like a man for twenty days each time, and by day she appears like the heaven, and there is nothing else in her save her light. If Enoch is to be believed, then the sun is not massively huge and tens of millions of miles away and the moon is not as big as we have been told it is either, and is much closer than the hundreds of thousands of miles we have been taught it is away from us. The stars, according to Enoch have set courses and portals in the dome through which they are to come and go as well. 1 Enoch 18:12. And beyond that abyss I saw a place which had no firmament of the heaven above, and no firmly founded earth beneath it: there was no water upon it, and no birds, but it was a waste and horrible place. 13. I saw there seven stars like great burning mountains, and to me, when I inquired regarding them, 14. The angel said: 'This place is the end of heaven and earth: this has become a prison for the stars and the host of heaven. 15. And the stars which roll over the fire are they which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord in the beginning of their rising, because they did not come forth at their appointed times. 16. And He was wroth with them, and bound them till the time when their guilt should be consummated (even) for ten thousand years.' This does not paint a picture of stars as "suns" burning out in space, but rather of intelligent beings that have been commanded what to do. Those that have disobeyed are punished. According to 1 Enoch 20, the angel Raguel is the one who acts as sort of a policeman of the stars: 1 Enoch 20:4. Raguel, one of the holy angels who takes vengeance on the world of the luminaries. The "lake of fire" that has been "prepared for the devil and his angels" that we read about in the canonized texts of the New Testament, may have been understood in the light of 1 Enoch 21: 1 Enoch 21:1. And I proceeded to where things were chaotic. 2. And I saw there something horrible: I saw neither a heaven above nor a firmly founded earth, but a place chaotic and horrible. 3. And there I saw seven stars of the heaven bound together in it, like great mountains and burning with fire. 4. Then I said: 'For what sin are they bound, and on what account have they been cast in hither?' 5. Then said Uriel, one of the holy angels, who was with me, and was chief over them, and said: 'Enoch, why dost thou ask, and why art thou eager for the truth? 6. These are of the number of the stars of heaven, which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and are bound here till ten thousand years, the time entailed by their sins, are consummated.' 7. And from thence I went to another place, which was still more horrible than the former, and I saw a horrible thing: a great fire there which burnt and blazed, and the place was cleft as far as the abyss, being full of great descending columns of fire: neither its extent or magnitude could I see, nor could I conjecture. 8. Then I said: 'How fearful is the place and how terrible to look upon!' 9. Then Uriel answered me, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: 'Enoch, why hast thou such fear and affright?' And I answered: 'Because of this fearful place, and because of the spectacle of the pain.' 10. And he said unto me: 'This place is the prison of the angels, and here they will be imprisoned for ever.' In the Book of Enoch we see that the stars are to follow specific courses and not deviate from them. If they do, they are punished for violating YHWH's commandment concernig their "circuit" in the heavens. Indeed, the stars, like the sun and moon, also have portals through which they are to come and go. Whether or not Job ever read the Book of Enoch, he certainly seemed to have had a similar view: Job 9: 1 Then Job answered and said, 2 I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? 3 If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand. 4 He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who hath hardened himself against him, and hath prospered? 5 Which removeth the mountains, and they know not: which overturneth them in his anger. 6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble. 7 Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars. 8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea. 9 Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south. Something else of interest: Is the flat/enclosed earth hollow? Yes. Enoch goes into great detail concerning the underworld here: 1 Enoch 22:1. And thence I went to another place, and he showed me in the west another great and high mountain [and] of hard rock. 2 And there was in it four hollow places, deep and wide and very smooth. How smooth are the hollow places and deep and dark to look at. 3. Then Raphael answered, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: 'These hollow places have been created for this very purpose, that the spirits of the souls of the dead should assemble therein, yea that all the souls of the children of men should assemble here. And these places have been made to receive them till the day of their judgement and till their appointed period till the period appointed, till the great judgement (comes) upon them.' 5. I saw the spirits of the children of men who were dead, and their voice went forth to heaven and made suit. 6. Then I asked Raphael the angel who was with me, and I said unto him: 'This spirit--whose is it whose voice goeth forth and maketh suit?' 7. And he answered me saying: 'This is the spirit which went forth from Abel, whom his brother Cain slew, and he makes his suit against him till his seed is destroyed from the face of the earth, and his seed is annihilated from amongst the seed of men.'8. Then I asked regarding it, and regarding all the hollow places: 'Why as one separated from the other?' 9. And he answered me and said unto me: 'These three have been made that the spirits of the dead might be separated. And such a division has been made 〈for〉 the spirits of the righteous, in which there as the bright spring of water. 10.And such has been made for sinners when they die and are buried in the earth and judgement has not been executed on them in their lifetime. 11. Here their spirits shall be set apart in this great pain till the great day of judgement and punishment and torment of those who †curse† for ever, and retribution for their spirits. There He shall bind them for ever. 12. And such a division has been made for the spirits of those who make their suit, who make disclosures concerning their destruction, when they were slain in the days of the sinners. 13. Such has been made for the spirits of men who were not righteous but sinners, who were complete in transgression, and of the transgressors. they shall be companions: but their spirits shall not be slain in the day of judgement nor shall they be raised from thence. 14. Then I blessed the Lord of glory and said: 'Blessed be my Lord, the Lord of righteousness, who ruleth for ever.' Did this tale in Enoch set the stage for Yeshua's parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man? Could be. Yeshua's parable certainly would appear to validate this story. Regardless, this shows there is still room for a "hollow earth" in the Flat Earther's enclosed model. The ancient Sumerians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Hebrews and Greeks all had a view of the Underworld being below our feet. They also had a flat earth worldview. Enoch has a lot more to say concerning the nature of the heavens, earth, sun, moon and stars, but this should suffice for now. Whether or not you accept Enoch as having any merit is irrelevant. At this point, you should be able to tell that just sticking with the Bible alone, the Flat Earthers have a very strong case against our belief in the globe. The Bible goes on and on with similar descriptions as stated above in Enoch. This ancient apocryphal book merely appears to confirm and elaborate on these themes as a contemporary ancient commentary. SEE ALSO: Enoch's Domed World http://testingtheglobe.com/enoch.html -------------------------------------------------------------- so its a bit perplexing to me when you hear some people here claim a globe round earth earth rotating around the sun earth and in the same breath defend the book of Enoch as being a book of great insight and knowledge. I guess its again pick and choose what you feel comfortable to believe in and what you don't. But that not what the bible says. The bible tells us that we cannot pick and choose what we want to believe from it. It says that we cannot add or take our from it. Revelation 22:19 18I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. 20He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!…