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Wasn't Lucifer the chief musicians? Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. "Music is a spiritual thing all its own , once you hypnotize one with the music you can preach to the SUBCONSCIOUS mind what you want to say". ~Jimi Hendrix Isaiah 14:11-13 "Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:" Technically he still is chief "musician" since he pulls the strings of this earth with his orchestra of sin.

Oh! o.k. I see , I guess i was a bit taken for a loop, when I read some of the responses...

Apparently he switched from being a seventh day Adventist to being a Jehovah witness and died from morphine painkillers that he was taking. Apparently he had a hip and knee replacement... A man who wrote songs about cream and a raspberry beret ?... Why is he given attention on this christian site?

I agree as well

Even if Jude cites a passage from this non-canonical book, it does not mean he accepted the whole book as true, only this particular statement. I think it is more likely Jude did not lift this statement from the non-Biblical book of Enoch,. It was either something passed on orally or he received it as a direct revelation from God. Jude does not assert that these books are inspired Scripture –simply uninspired truth. Jude does not say that the entire book is true, but a part of the book is true. This would be similar to a modern day preacher citing a line from an atheistic scientist or philosopher. While the atheist’s book is not entirely true, it does contain true statements. Jude’s argument does not hang on these apocryphal passages; instead, we could back up everything that is written elsewhere in the OT. Jude does not quote these books verbatim –but adapts these verses. We should note that Jude adapts these citations at certain points to correct them with the Bible’s teaching. He doesn’t quote them wholesale. most likely, Jude’s audience (or enemies) were citing these books. Jude probably chose these works, because his opponents were using them. In a sense, he is saying, “Even my opponents would agree with these statements about Satan’s power (v.9) and the judgment of God “1 Enoch” (Jude 14-15) Compare Jude with 1 Enoch: (Jude 14-15a) It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, 15 to execute judgment upon all. (1 Enoch 1:9) Behold, [God] shall arrive with ten million of the holy ones in order to execute judgment upon all. He will destroy the wicked ones and censure all flesh on account of everything that they have done, that which the sinners and the wicked ones committed against him. A few observations can be made: First, Jude corrects the apocryphal text. Jude does not state that there are “ten million” holy ones coming with God –like 1 Enoch states. Instead, he writes that “many thousands” come with him. He probably took this from Deuteronomy 33:2, which states that God came with “ten thousand holy ones.” He corrects the portion of 1 Enoch that is not accurate in favor of the biblical text. Second, Jude’s citation can be found in OT. Jude’s words about the coming judgment of God can be taken from canonical OT books. Everything that 1 Enoch states can be supported in canonical Scripture: “For behold, the LORD will come in fire And His chariots like the whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For the LORD will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the LORD will be many” (Is. 66:15-16). “Behold, the Lord GOD will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him” (Is. 40:10). “You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him!” (Zech. 14:5). “He may establish your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints” (1 Thess. 3:13). “He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other” (Mt. 24:31). third, Jude probably cites Enoch, because his enemies were using this book. If his enemies were citing 1 Enoch, Jude may be using their own book against them. This would be like a Christian apologist citing an atheistic author in a debate against an atheist. Instead of citing Scripture, Jude could be using their apocryphal book against them. Jude also writes after he writes about Enoch, Jude 1:17 But you beloved remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: 18 how they told you there would be mockers in the last times who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts 19 There are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit. 20 But you beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith praying in the Holy Spirit. 21 keep yourselves in the love of God looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction, 23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garments defiled by the flesh, 24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding jopy 25 To God our Savior Who ALONE IS WISE Be glory and majesty; Dominion and power Both now and forever, Amen.

Christ Jesus my Lord and Savior who is part of the Holy trinity who IS maker of ALL quoted Holy Scripture but NEVER quoted Enoch

If Enoch were so important and important being the claims of" the books of Enoch", How come Christ Jesus who is part of the trinity Father, Son, Holy Spirit never once mentioned any reference to Enoch or his books. Christ Jesus, Lord,,Savior, God, never quoted Enoch. Christ Jesus quoted from what is written in the old testament scriptures that are part of the Holy Bible. If Enoch was so important, Christ Jesus would have quoted, referenced to and endorsed Enoch. But HE our Lord and Savior, only begotten Son of God, who is part of the Holy trinity Father, Son Holy Spirit, never did. In revelation it is well cautioned that we are not to add or take away from what is accounted to be Holy Scriptures. What it means is that one is not to add their own words to what God gave. Each one is a specific book that was complete that man was not to add or subtract from. The Bible is a collection of all 66 books that are of the Old and New Testament. Nothing May Be Added Deuteronomy 4:2 2 You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. Deuteronomy 4:2 “You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take anything from it”(also Deuteronomy 12:32). The reason God is so adamant on this is because “The entirety of Your word is truth” (Psalms 119: 160). Psalms 119:160 The sum of Your word is truth, And every one of Your righteous ordinances is everlasting. Proverbs 30:6 …5 Every word of God is tested; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. 6 Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar. 7 Two things I asked of You, Do not refuse me before I die:… Revelation 22:19 18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book. 20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.… In the book of Revelation which is prophecy completes the Bible, just as Genesis began the Bible, it states "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this Book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this Book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the Book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this Book" Revelation 22:18-19. Of all the books Revelation has the strongest warning as it has to do with the end of world system and the coming of the Lord to restore righteousness

God Bless Bopeep1909 !

Yes I agree with the above statement by bopeep. In the bible we have all we need to be able to live a full life in Him. In Gods word found in the old and new testament we have enough material to look upon in prayer and meditation. In Gods Word found in the bible we have enough reading material to work out our salvation. God called me back to Him about 14 years ago, I was called to let go of all other spiritual, esoterical books, I was called back by God and this time it was made clear to me that if I was to let go in order to follow God, I had to let go of the things of this world and follow His WORD alone. Since than my relationship with God began to grow more and more and I really began to see Him working in my life.. It saddens me also when I see here, some who try to introduce other books as complimentary study books to Gods words and who deny Gods word in the bible as Gods Word. This is exactly what I was called away from doing 14 years ago, and now seeing it being re-introduced by some people here, saddens me as I know it can be a stumbling block for the one seeking Gods Word and truth unto salvation in Him. I came to worthy seeking a bible believing community to share , lift and pray for people and grow in our one true belief in God through our lord and savior Christ Jesus. Everyone is at a different leaning /understanding curve, but I think it is of most importance to keep this place a bible believing site with " the true literal word of God...THE TRUTH" "and not allow others to stumble and fall" Away from Gods TRUE WORD with hearsay literature, conjectures that have not been approved to be in Gods Holy Word.

All through the stories of the lives of those who lived in the old and new testament, they are stories about men women who where sinners until God changed them. Now it is written that sin is sin no matter how big or small all sins have the sin factor =actions that lead to separation from God. Now how many sins exist? many Now how to say a murderer is worse than an alcoholic or the same in terms of sin? And addiction is something that has gone askew in the persons life and has taken control of that person to the point where that person has a week resolve of their own to stop. Be it alcohol, drugs, overheating, bulimia, anorexia, gambling,sexual distortions... these -sins of the flesh and against the well being of the flesh and soul are very big problems in our society, they are recognized today by psychiatry as mental disorders and also there are recovery programs geared to help the person addicted to stop. Aside from various programs available to get a person to recover from their addictions, there exist also the A.A. addiction program that also places an importance of there also being a spiritual component involved in the problem of addiction as well as a spiritual SOLUTION to the same problem of addiction. Now in Lab tests, they have shown how they can get mice addicted to certain things, so getting addicted to substance is also a very possible outcome in an animal or human given the circumstance. Now as for murder? yes it is also a sin . Is it the same as an addiction? I have yet to see a murder anonymous group meeting that is geared to keep people from killing other people. But actually maybe there should be one. But there are MANY forms or WAYS you can murder someone. You can murder someones soul by corrupting it through the violation of God given moral character through -neglect -sexual abuse/physical - child abuse - verbal abuse Many having been conditioned away from God given moral character by these practices. And the result is soul killing by conditioning from the abuse. to find relief from the abusive conditioning , people either look to God strait away for help or are even more duped to find their relief from their painful conditioning through various means, such as : Alcohol, drugs,overeating, bulimia, anorexia, gambling, sexual distortion. And through those relief methods away from God, these same can also in extreme cases lead to murder of themselves or someone else or a group of people. In order to stop such deviance; The person must come to the realization that they do have a problem and that their lives have become unmanageable and that they need help. If a person does not come to the realization that they need help, they may very well die in there sin. But if a person is SEEKING God, they have come to a realization that their lives are askew and need to be changed, de-conditioned from abusive ways-sin- and re-conditioned to God loving ways. This is a process, that usually takes time, but will happen as long as the person is striving to SEEKING GODS WILL over their own on a daily basis. Can a murderer by set free from the desire to kill? With God all things are possible. Can an addiction to alcohol, drugs, overheating, bulimia, anorexia, gambling,sexual distortions be set free ? With God ALL things are possible. To become a practicing christian we need to be RE-conditioned AWAY from the conditioning of the world. It all comes down to sin conditioning and getting free from sin conditioning and BECOMING a new child in Christ, step by step through God conditioning through having a living daily relationship with Him and seeking His WORD for direction to God conditioning. Addictions to self through alcohol, drugs, overheating, bulimia, anorexia, gambling,sexual distortions, harms and kills fast or slowly, the person addicted as well as slowly kills/harms the people involved in their lives. So the term murderer is really applicable for everyone involved in any particular sin. SIN = anything that leads to eventual death satan is a murderer, his purpose is to steal, kill, destroy.(and he wants you to become just like him) sin in us makes us also do satans work also towards others. we the victims of sin without Gods help for rescue and redemption, we than become from being victims to abusers, perpetrators of sin onto others. And without Gods help this sin nature continues onwards from one person to another. sin is part of this world system, and without God involved in our hearts and lives, we just fall to this world and away from Gods true purpose for our lives. There IS a Solution WE NEED TO START SOMEWHERE It begins by taking the first step in the Right direction If you go right, you can't go wrong. By making the decision to be willing to walk in the right direction the sinner is given the opportunity to repent to God, and ask God through His plan of Mercy and Grace to come make a home in his/her heart. When this is done in sincerity of heart, God comes into the persons heart and begins the working process of making this person into a new creation by the guidance of the Holy Spirit of God now working in that person. We are ALL guilty of sin, what we do with it, determines the final outcome of our destiny. Jacob was no angel until he finally let go of self and let God lead his way. But God was always waiting patiently for Jacob. God had great plans for Jacob =Israel God has great plans for every sinner willing to let go of self and let God be ruler of their lives.

Well, well, well Spoken by a someone who created a post endorsing the reading of Enoch as a good supplement to the bible?But chastising with your budy, a young man and accusing him of all sort of accusations? There i was reading the post never hearing much about the books of Enoch and was going along the la-di-da path of reading along with those including you SS endorsing it and than when I began to look it up and read it for myself, something in me stopped me, something was very wrong and I had to pray about it. I truly was grieved when i wrote from Holy Scripture from the bible that I this book is wrong.You can truly mislead a new christian by endorsing reading this fantasy garbage But how you come down on others so fiercely . WOW! what did I get from You SS and your buddy? You called me all kinds of untruths and your buddy went along to say that i should be reported because I said that I did not think this book of Enoch was o.k? Interesting you said nothing to Patrioch who also disagreed with that book. Its o.k for you to endorse the book of Enoch but hey because you think its o.k well than it is? The book of Enoch is no more endorsed by the Holy Word of God in the format that you expose- on than are using of beads to pray. And my posts exposed that. What did I get from You SS and your buddy? You called me all kinds of untruths and your buddy went along to say that i should be reported Interesting you said nothing to Patriot who also disagreed with that book.

To: sister, I have already given my views, they are not going to change. Call me a simpleton in your eyes, that's all I got, and I thank God He's given me that much. My answers are in what i already posted. Peace in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit , may He seek our hearts and bring truth to our remembrance, convict our conscience of His Truth and deliver us from Evil lurking about to steal, kill and destroy, His one and ONLY true Word. Amen! Amen! Amen! over and out Just found this :http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/book_of_enoch.htm My views gravitate what this article says : Best wishes In Him; 1 to 3 The Book Of Enoch EXPOSED! By David J. Stewart | November 2006 Is the Book of Enoch really a lost book of the Bible? A born-again Christian who has been reading the Bible for several years only needs to read the "Book of Enoch" briefly to know that something is very wrong. There are so many obvious flaws with this alleged missing book of God's Word. It is clear to me that someone copied from the Bible and wrote this garbage. The same type of mumbo-jumbo can be readily observed in the Qur'an. I do NOT believe that Enoch, who lived during the time period of Genesis, wrote this manuscript. Evidently the King James translators didn't either, and for good reason. The Devil is working relentlessly to corrupt God's Word, as he has been doing since the Garden of Eden, when he caused Eve to doubt God's Word. Satan is so shrewd that he even tried to confuse our Lord by misinterpreting the Scriptures in Matthew 4:1-10. In these apostate times, the Word of God is under attack like never before. The reason why is simple... if Satan can pervert the Word of God into a lie, then he can control the masses! The Book of Enoch Teaches Heresy! To the Biblically ignorant reader, the Book of Enoch might have an appeal; but to a believer grounded in the Scriptures, the Book of Enoch is packed full of heresy. For example: We read in chapter 40 of the Book of Enoch... 1 And after that I saw thousands of thousands and ten thousand times ten thousand, I saw a multitude 2 beyond number and reckoning, who stood before the Lord of Spirits. And on the four sides of the Lord of Spirits I saw four presences, different from those that sleep not, and I learnt their names: for the angel that went with me made known to me their names, and showed me all the hidden things. 3 And I heard the voices of those four presences as they uttered praises before the Lord of glory. 4 The first voice blesses the Lord of Spirits for ever and ever. 5 And the second voice I heard blessing 6 the Elect One and the elect ones who hang upon the Lord of Spirits. And the third voice I heard pray and intercede for those who dwell on the earth and supplicate in the name of the Lord of Spirits. 7 And I heard the fourth voice fending off the Satans and forbidding them to come before the Lord 8 of Spirits to accuse them who dwell on the earth. After that I asked the angel of peace who went with me, who showed me everything that is hidden: ‘Who are these four presences which I have 9 seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’ 10 And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days. The Bible never mentions an angel named Phanuel, let alone an angel who is set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life. What blasphemy! That statement in itself contradicts everything the Word of God teaches. We read in 1st Timothy 2:5 that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between God and men, not some angel named Phanuel... "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." Repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone. Only Jesus died for our sins, and shed His blood to pay for them (1st Peter 1:18-19); therefore, we must be diligent to guard and defend against LIARS and imposters who would lead people to believe otherwise. 1st John 2:22 clearly indicts all Christ-deniers as LIARS, guilty before God. Here's chapter 48:1-3... 1 And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness Which was inexhaustible: And around it were many fountains of wisdom: And all the thirsty drank of them, And were filled with wisdom, And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect. 2 And at that hour that Son of Man was named In the presence of the Lord of Spirits, And his name before the Head of Days. 3 Yea, before the sun and the signs were created, Before the stars of the heaven were made, His name was named before the Lord of Spirits. Was the Son of Man named? When was Jesus named in Heaven? This is an attack on the deity of Jesus. Jesus Himself claimed in Revelation 1:8, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." Jesus is Eternal, without beginning or end. Head of Days? Lord of Spirits? These terms are NOT found in the Bible. IF the Book of Enoch were valid, composing well over 100 chapters, there should be numerous New Testament references to it; but there aren't. Although some people claim that the Bible quotes the Book of Enoch over 100 times, this is simply not true. Just as the Qur'an, the Book of Enoch borrows from the Word of God. In sharp contrast to the Book of Enoch, the New Testament often quotes the Book of Genesis. We read in the Book of Enoch, chapter 69:8-12... 8 ...And the fourth was named Penemue: he taught the 9 children of men the bitter and the sweet, and he taught them all the secrets of their wisdom. And he instructed mankind in writing with ink and paper, and thereby many sinned from eternity to 10 eternity and until this day. For men were not created for such a purpose, to give confirmation 11 to their good faith with pen and ink. For men were created exactly like the angels, to the intent that they should continue pure and righteous, and death, which destroys everything, could not have taken hold of them, but through this their knowledge they are perishing, and through this power 12 it is consuming me. What ... man's wisdom came from a demon named Penemue? That's crazy! Did ink and paper cause the fall of the human race? Whoa ... I'd better through all my fine-point pens away immediately! It was Adam's sin that brought sin into the world (Romans 5:12); not evil literature. Mankind is inherently evil of himself, prone to the works of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21). The Charismatics (Pentecostals) give far too much credit to demons for the sinful actions of men. They believe that every sin a person commits is evidence of demon-possession. That is absurd! Men and women sin because they are sinners! (Romans 3:10,23). Although demons definitely influence mankind to do evil, the ultimate decision is OURS. The Devil cannot force anyone to sin. People need to stop blaming demons and the Devil for their sins, and start looking into the mirror. God has promised to help His children live right... "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it" (1st Corinthians 10:13). No excuses! The Book of Enoch Speaks Mumbo-Jumbo As you read the Book of Enoch, you will notice a big difference between it and the genuine Word of God. The Bible is readable, from cover to cover, it tells a story. In sharp contrast, the Book of Enoch appears to be mocking the Word of God, quoting phrases here-and-there from the Bible, without any meaningful logic or order. This, coupled with a bunch of added mumbo-jumbo, makes the Book of Enoch a ridiculous piece of literature to even consider inspired by God. As a person progresses deeper into the Book of Enoch, they will eventually find the Books of Adam and Eve fascinating as well, and then they will be into New Age occultism without even realizing it. Don't be fooled friend, the Book of Enoch is occult material that will lead you into the senseless mysticism of pagan religion. The fact that it's being paraded to the public nowadays on Walt Disney's History Station as a SHOCKING revelation, should be a clear warning sign where this is all headed. The credibility of the Word of God is under malicious attack. Here's what the History Station is teaching people about Sodom and Gomorrah. The Book of Enoch uses unfamiliar terminology, referring to the "Lord of Spirits" and the "Head of Days." These terms are foreign to the Word of God. The messiah is NOT directly mentioned. The ambiguous mention of what may or may not be the Lord Jesus in the Book of Enoch, is eerily reminiscent of Freemasonry (who worship the "Great Architect" ...an undefined, ambiguous, universal god). This is the false god of New Age. It is worthy to note that Christ's deity is not evidenced in the Book of Enoch. It appears that many statements in the Book of Enoch were taken from the Bible, and then built around with mumbo-jumbo. Many terms from the Biblical Book of Revelation are quoted in the Book of Enoch; but without any sense or reason (in sharp contrast to the Bible). All 66 Books of the Word of God perfectly intertwine with each other, presenting a clear prophetic picture. The Book of Enoch doesn't offer anything of doctrinal value, because it's bizarre teachings stand alone (i.e., unable to be supported with Scriptures). Some defenders of the Book of Enoch contend that Jesus often quoted from the Book of Enoch. Prove it! Every Scripture Jesus ever quoted is found in the Old Testament, without any reference to a Book of Enoch. The strongest argument in favor of the Book of Enoch is found in Jude 1:14, "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints." Since this quote is NOT found in the Old Testament, some scholars have used this fact in an attempt to legitimize the entire Book of Enoch. We read in chapter 1:9 of the Book of Enoch... And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones To execute judgment upon all, And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him. However, there is no Biblical record of a "Book of Enoch." There is NO doubt that Enoch made these statements as Jude 1:14 confirms; but that doesn't necessarily mean that he authored the entire Book of Enoch (or ANY of it for that matter). It's a question of who copied who? And remember, the Author of the Bible is GOD; not men... "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" (2nd Peter 1:21). To elevate the Book of Enoch to the level of God's Word is dangerous, unless it is truly God's Word! If Enoch did write the Book of Enoch, it raises the natural question of whether or not the work was inspired by God? The King James translators,48 scholarly men skilled in the Hebrew and Greek languages, DIDN'T! Many godly men today write good books; but they are still flawed human beings, prone to sin, who aren't always doctrinally correct in every area. It would be a great evil to recognize their writings as EQUAL with God's Word (the Bible). Jesus condemned following the TRADITIONS of men over the commandments of God (Mark 7:6-13). Even king David warned against trusting men rather than God (Psalm 118:8). This is why Seventh-Day Adventists are a false religion, because they elevate the writings of Ellen G. White as EQUAL with the Bible. Scientologists do the same, by elevating the writings of Ron Hubbard as EQUAL with the Bible. Catholics are woefully guilty of elevating the teaching of the Vatican, fabricated over the centuries, as EQUAL with God's Word. Regardless of whether Enoch wrote the Book of Enoch or not, it is abundantly clear to the Biblically-sound believer that it is NOT inspired by God. It is also possible that Enoch's preaching was exploited and deliberately misconstrued after his death. The FACT of the matter is that the Book of Enoch is clearly a watered-down, heretical, manuscript filled with mumbo-jumbo. Unlike the Bible, the Book of Enoch doesn't appear to be going anywhere. The Book of Enoch is a square peg which just doesn't fit anywhere. The wording is vague—a popular method of deception which Satan uses! Listen to the average televangelist these days and you'll get a watered-down sermonette; but hear no clear Gospel presentation. The occult is all about confusing people, which is why so many otherwise decent men join such a Satanic organization as Freemasonry. Benny Hinn's website appears to present the basic Gospel; but he is a known Catholic, who believes good works are necessary for salvation. You'll NEVER hear Benny Hinn condemn Catholicism or teach that ADDING good works to faith alone is a road to Hell. If you ADD anything to the simple Gospel, you've perverted it (Galatians 1:7). Every hellbound Catholic believes that Jesus died, was buried, and rose again, and that the blood of Jesus takes sin away. Tragically, they are also trusting the sacraments (baptism, Eucharist, etc), the Rosary, the Virgin Mary, the Church, good works, etc, etc, etc. Religion NEVER saved anybody. Don't give me the old-time religion—GIVE ME JESUS! People 450-Feet Tall? Are you really gullible enough to believe that fallen angels had physical intimacy with earthly women that produced offspring 450-feet tall? I don't think so! We read in chapter 7:12-15 of the Book of Enoch... 7:12 Whose stature was each three hundred cubits. These devoured all which the labor of men produced; until it became impossible to feed them; 7:13 When they turned themselves against men, in order to devour them; 7:14 And began to injure birds, beasts, reptiles, and fishes, to eat their flesh one after another, and to drink their blood. 7:15 Then the earth reproved the unrighteous. A "cubit" is 1.5 feet. The ark which Noah built was 300 cubits long (Genesis 6:15). Do you mean to tell me that some women had children who were as tall as the ark was long? You've got to be joking! Such foolish conjecture is a violation of the simplest teachings of the Bible. In Genesis 6: we read, "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." I think Pastor J. Vernon McGee interprets this Scripture exactly right... It says, “There were giants in the earth in those days,” but it does not say they are the offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of men. It does say this about the offspring: “the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.” These were not monstrosities; they were men. The record here makes it very clear that the giants were in the earth before this took place, and it simply means that these offspring were outstanding individuals. Humanity has a tremendous capacity. Man is fearfully and wonderfully made—that is a great truth we have lost sight of. This idea that man has come up from some protoplasm out of a garbage can or seaweed is utterly preposterous. It is the belief of some scientists that evolution will be repudiated, and some folk are going to look ridiculous at that time. Evolution is nothing in the world but a theory as far as science is concerned. Nothing has been conclusive about it. It is a philosophy like any other philosophy, and it can be accepted or rejected. When it is accepted, it certainly leads to some very crazy solutions to the problems of the world, and it has gotten my country into trouble throughout the world. Anyone would think that we are the white knight riding through the world straightening out wrongs. We are wrong on the inside ourselves! I do not know why in this country today we have an intelligentsia in our colleges, our government, our news media, and our military who think they are super, that somehow or another they have arrived. It is the delusion of the hour that men think that they are greater than they really are. Man is suffering from a fall, an awful fall. He is totally depraved today, and until that is taken into consideration, we are in trouble all the way along. Then what do we have here in verse 4? As I see it, Genesis is a book of genealogies—it is a book of the families. The sons of God are the godly line who have come down from Adam through Seth, and the daughters of men belong to the line of Cain. What you have here now is an intermingling and intermarriage of these two lines, until finally the entire line is totally corrupted (well, not totally; there is one exception). That is the picture that is presented to us here. SOURCE: McGee, J. Vernon, Thru the Bible with J. Vernon McGee, (Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 2000, c1981. We also read in 1st Corinthians 15:39-40, "All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another." There you have it ... celestial (heavenly) and terrestrial (earthly) are NOT compatible. Just as a fish cannot breed with a horse, or a cow with a whale, so cannot a fallen angel breed with a woman. Also, Jesus clearly taught that the angels are NOT given in marriage (Matthew 22:30). We know that there were giants in the Old Testament; but as seen with Goliath the Philistine (1st Samuel 17:4), he was only 9' 6" tall (not 450 feet). Giants in the Old Testament were NOT the result of fallen angels marrying human women. And think about this, if fallen angels did have physical relations with earthly women, then why doesn't it occur today? There is no such thing as a succubus or an incubus (i.e. sexual relations between demons and humans). Furthermore, how could a woman give birth to a normal size baby that would then grow to be as tall as half the length of a football field? 'Com on, please be real. Although the Bible does contain may miraculous and startling events (e.g., the flood), they are all explainable and have rationale. Where are the skeletal remains of those 450-feet tall monsters? It is clear that many unsaved scholars today are trying to discredit the Bible as a book of fables, which is what the Book of Enoch certainly is. The Word of God is untouchable, unchangeable, and incorruptible! We read in the Book of Enoch, chapter 69:4-6... 4 The name of the first Jeqon: that is, the one who led astray [all] the sons of God, and brought them 5 down to the earth, and led them astray through the daughters of men. And the second was named Asbeel: he imparted to the holy sons of God evil counsel, and led them astray so that they defiled 6 their bodies with the daughters of men. And the third was named Gadreel: he it is who showed the children of men all the blows of death, and he led astray Eve, and showed [the weapons of death to the sons of men] the shield and the coat of mail, and the sword for battle, and all the weapons. Without a doubt, the primary claim of the Book of Enoch is that fallen angels had sex with human women and produced 450-feet tall giants upon the earth. This teaching is ridiculous, unscriptural, and has no solid evidence to support it (Biblically or scientifically). This is another good reason why the Book of Enoch should continue to be rejected. It is nonsense. Also, notice in 69:6 above that the Book of Enoch claims that a demon named Gadreel led Eve astray and introduced weaponry to mankind. How absurd. The Bible identifies the serpent which deceived Eve in the Garden of Eden as Satan (Ezekiel 28:13). Conclusion The reason why the early church fathers and the King James Bible translators rejected the Book of Enoch as inspired of God, WASN'T to hide the truth; BUT, because it isn't the truth. The Book of Enoch is a fraud, an imposter, and straight from Hell. I triple-dog dare you to try cross-referencing the Book of Enoch with the Word of God ... good luck! When I read in chapter 1:9 of the Book of Enoch that an angel named Phanuel is "set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life" ... I knew the Book of Enoch was fraudulent. Salvation is found ONLY in Christ Jesus, "Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." King David said in Psalm 62:6, "He (Jesus) only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be moved." Phanuel... you're a fraud! Jesus is the ONLY Way, Truth, and Life (John 14:6). The truth is that Satan is a murderous thief, who's sole purpose of existence now is to kill, steal, and destroy (John 10:10). Satan hates the Word of God, because It is his greatest enemy in this world. Therefore, Satan seeks to destroy the Bible. If he cannot destroy the Bible, then he tries to corrupt the Bible by changing it (Romans 1:25; 2nd Peter 3:16). If Satan cannot destroy or corrupt the Bible, then he tries to introduce "new" so-called "lost books" of the Bible to confuse people. It is NO coincidence nowadays, in this time of great apostasy—when homosexuals are being given in marriage, when babies are being murdered by the hundreds-of-millions worldwide through abortion, when witchcraft is all around us, when booze and gambling are commonplace, when sexual sins and lasciviousness have saturated society, when churches are silent concerning sin and false religion—that we should see all these "new" so-called revelations concerning the Bible. Here's an article I wrote exposing the Book of Judas, and another exposing The Jesus Papers. Don't be fooled, the King James Bible is a complete Book, and a Fine Book indeed. By the way, if you are using a New International Version, please throw it away! God promised in Psalm 12:6,7 to preserve His Word unto all generations, and He wonderfully has, in the precious King James Bible. The King James Bible Defended! Ye Must Be Born Again!

2 Corinthians 5:7 for we walk by faith not by sight , we want what we want, but God gives what we need to live by Him and in Him. 2Peter 1:3 3 seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. 4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.… First thing First As Christians we are called to first cultivate focusing more on cultivating the fruits of the spirit and letting go of the lust of the flesh found in Galatians 5:16-26 This is what we need to cultivate, first, and from this God gives us His blessings and guides us to where we are called to be and what gifts we are called to share. We are ALL called as Christian to share the WORD of God and the message of Gods plan of Mercy and Grace through His only begotten Son Christ Jesus. The end of the last chapters of each gospel Mathew, Mark, Luke and John we are called to go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I( Christ Jesus) have commanded you and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. Amen! Everything has a season, purpose, that comes from God. Everything in due time. Patience is needed. Waiting patiently on the lord is needed We may ask, but He gives in His time, His season,His purpose. Psalm 27:14 13 I would have despaired unless I had believed that I would see the goodness of the LORD In the land of the living. 14 Wait for the LORD; Be strong and let your heart take courage; Yes, wait for the LORD. Isaiah 40:31 31 But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. lean not on your own understanding but from everything that comes form the Word of God Trust in the Lord Proverbs 3:5 …4So you will find favor and good repute In the sight of God and man. 5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight.…

Thank you kindly hmbld you understood my concern. If I see someone falling into sin. I will speak as every christian is called to do so. Luke 17:1-4King James Version (KJV) 17 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! 2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. 3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. 4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him. The Book of Enoch is it Scripture? Is this the Holy-Spirit inspired word of God? This is where we can pretty confidently say "no". If it were Scripture, we would expect it to be free of false doctrine. What we find instead is that false doctrine is one of the most prevalent themes in the book! Taking a cursory look at the text up through Chapter 59, I found the following false doctrines. (I may be off on one here or there, but it should be sufficient to get my point across.) 1:1 Implies restoration during tribulation - not congruent with scriptures. 1:8 In conflict with the doctrine that peace was made at the cross. Also, in the last days tribulation will increase for the righteous - this "verse" seems to dispute that. 2:2-3 Appears to contradict 2 Pet 3:3-7 5:4 Is an admonition to some unknown party - this is very irregular relative to the scriptures (i.e. authentic ancient writings by God-fearing Jews) 6:3 Semjaza seems to be listed as the leader of the angels, which is not scriptural 6:3,8 None of these angels are mentioned in the Bible 8:1 Azazel isn't even listed in 6:8 as one of the angels that fornicated with women 8:3 Araqiel and Shamsiel aren't listed in 6:8 either 10:2 Enoch allegedly wrote about Noah, even though the Bible teaches that Enoch was taken up to heaven years before Noah was born. 10:4-6,12 Implies angels can be bound & hid in holes under rocks. This is contrary to scripture. 10:8 Ascribes all the sin of the fallen angels to one named Azazel - not scriptural. 10:15-11:2 Seems to imply that permanent restoration took place after the flood - clearly not true. It seems the true author of this book confused scriptures pertaining to the future restoration. 13:5-6,14:4-5,7 Implies fallen angels can't talk to God - this contradicts Job. Also implies that angels were repentant, but weren't received back by God - very strange doctrine. 14 Gives a very strange description of Heaven that conflicts with many scriptures 15:8-10 Very strange doctrine about "evil spirits" proceeding from unredeemable giants 17-18,21,23 Gives a very strange description of the earth & universe which is clearly not true. Also alludes to the ancient model of astronomy that held that there were 7 stars (the closest planets) which burned like the sun (they don't.) 19:3 Discredits all other prophecy about the consumation of the ages. 20 Lists strange angels not in scripture, and incorrectly assigns the roles of Michael (the warrior) and Gabriel (the messenger) 21:7-10 Seems to contradict Biblical descriptions of the present & final judgement places for the fallen angels 22 Contradicts the Biblical descriptions of past, present & future dwelling places for the righteous who die 32:2-6 Seems to imply the Garden of Eden was still in existance after the Flood 33:1-2 Says Heaven rests on a foundation that is at the Eastern edge of the earth 33:3 He claims he counted the stars & individually mapped them, which is impossible scripturally (& scientifically) 34 Says the winds come out of a "portal" at the Northern edge of the earth 36:3 Says the stars come out of portals at the Eastern edge of the earth & move West 38:5-6 Contradicts Daniel & other prophecies about the Mellinial Reign 39:1-2 Very strange implications here about the "seed" of angels dwelling with men at the end... this contradicts the scriptures 40:7 Talks about the "Satans" - plural, different than the Bible, who gives that name to only one fallen angel. Also, implies Satan can't stand in God's presence, contrary to Job. 40:9 Once again mixes up the roles of the 2 Archangels & adds more names in. Michael's role in scripture is related to conquoring nations & fighting spiritual wars, while Gabriel's relates to bringing messages & visions to people. 41:1-2 Says the Kingdom of God is divided - it's not & can't be scripturally. Also describes sinners being repelled from a mansion, which is also not scriptural, unless you look at a parable Jesus told, which was not intended to be literal. 41:4-5 Says the sun, moon, winds, etc. are stored in chambers & released at appointed times. 41:6-7 Implies the sun & moon move opposite of each other 43:1-3,44 Very weird model of the nature of stars & lightning 47:4 Says God requires the blood of the saints... very strange 51:1 Says Sheol & Hell will give back to the earth, which isn't scriptural - also Hell is a NT term, not OT 51:2 Disputes the Biblical doctrine that we are chosen. (We don't have to wait until Christ's return to be chosen.) This isn't scriptural. General: Seems to imply Enoch came back down to earth after being taken up to Heaven, which is not scriptural. Summary 1 Timothy 1:3,4 I think Paul's words are very pertinent here: As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines, nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith. But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions. ---------- Peace in our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus 1 to 3

I think those of you who are considering these outside of the bible holy books as add-ons to the Holy Bible have placed yourself into sin and need to repent . You have added -on to what is written in Gods word and that is idolatry and blasphemy and the bible does say, those who do partake in that are making themselves filthy and you are loosing your place in good promised blessing. I always saw a particular person here on this site as someone still mixed up with occult beliefs and who could rely mislead, but now I see others who also are partaking in such devilish beliefs. This saddens me greatly . All you involved in this heresy need to repent. Don't you know reading this can invite evil spirit and destruction in into your life? The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Nothing May Be Added Revelation 22:19 18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book. 20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.… The bible is quite clear to say to those who preach, to be carewful, because you will be held accountable James 3:1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment James 1:14 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed Warnings against False Teachers 1 Timothy 4:1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron. 3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer. 6 If you put these things before the brothers,1 you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, being trained in the words of the faith and of the good doctrine that you have followed. 7 Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. Rather train yourself for godliness; ***** 8 for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come. 9 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance. 10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe. 11 Command and teach these things. 12 Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers tan example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity. 13 Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, to teaching. 14 Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophecy when the council of elders wlaid their hands on you. 15 Practice these things, immerse yourself in them, so that all may see your progress. 16Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers. ========= By seeking elsewhere from the bible for Gods knowledge we make ourselves unclean Haggai 2:13 …12If a man carries holy meat in the fold of his garment, and touches bread with this fold, or cooked food, wine, oil, or any other food, will it become holy?'" And the priests answered, "No." 13Then Haggai said, "If one who is unclean from a corpse touches any of these, will the latter become unclean?" And the priests answered, "It will become unclean." 14Then Haggai said, "'So is this people. And so is this nation before Me,' declares the LORD, 'and so is every work of their hands; and what they offer there is unclean.… ======== Matthew 24:4 Christ Jesus said: 4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains. ======== John 15:5 Christ Jesus said. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. ======== John 14:26 Christ Jesus said: 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. ======== The Purpose of the Law Galatians 3:16 15Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. 16Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ. 17What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. ========= Acts 15:20 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. 22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren: 23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia. 24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Sorry for my mistake in writing Pj instead of Tj in my response, and thank you for bringing to our attention.

I agree Cleatus but unfortunately there exist churches like that .

That is a very good point you bring up. and thank you as a man for pointing this out.

Hi Kwik, lol! The saying : not being of the same ilk, is just an expression as to say not of our own kind and can refer to breeding, education, social status, ... ilk = a type of people or things similar same ilk = same kind

Hi Kwikphilly; I don't think God would place us in such a dilemma. God has prepared His eternal white linen covering for those in Him. Personally, I am so looking for the day, when clothes will no longer be such an issue once having passed over from mortal life to spiritual life. I am a tall girl 5'10 3/4" in height, having to shop for clothes has always been a problem especially here were i live since most french Canadians are not all that tall. Luckily, I live near the U.S. boarder where there are taller people and where i do go and shop for clothes and shoes that fit my size. For really nice fitting formal clothes like fitted jackets and skirts and coats I have had to order from long tall sally from the u.k or from German companies and shopping and staying in fashion can be quite an expense. Luckily over the years I have accumulated a classical wardrobe of good quality clothing so I don't have to spend every season a good chunk of my income on new clothes and the time consuming effort that goes with having to shop for them. I once went to a "christian" church were the pastor was preaching a sermon on not being of the right "ilk" that was the last time I went to that church. However, in this world, yes we do have to go by the rules if we want to feel acceptance. So if I am going to work for the government there is a certain dress code. if i am going to work in a hospital, there is a certain dress code If I ham going to serve in the army, there is a certain dress code. if i go to a certain private school, there is a certain dress code. if I am going to attend a wedding, there is a certain dress code. if I live or work on a ranch in the country, the dress code will be more relaxed. Those in a Choir may have the dress code to wear like a robe or require all wear a certain color top and certain color pant or skirt. if I attend a church, being decently dressed should be all that is required, but some churches dress more up than neat casual, so if that is the church you feel the Holy Spirit of God led you to, the dress code will not be an issue. there is a french adage that goes like this: L'habit ne fait pas le moine. translation: the habit=uniform, does not make the monk. As shakespear said about this world : All the worlds a stage and we are the actors. that's why half of an actors job to be convincing of his role is to wear the right costume and say the right words no matter that that the actor's words were scripted and don't really come from his heart or who he truly is. Clothe can be a great disguise of what truly lies under it. Hopefully in heaven with the Lord, shopping for the "right clothes" will no longer be such a pressing issue. Hopefully in heaven how tall we are, how short we are, what color of skin, hair we are, how handicapped we are, will be of little to no importance only the condition of our heart will be of importance. I hope and pray so

Christ Jesus was always there to receive whoever came to Him, even the wolves in sheeps clothing. I mean this site has rules, this site has moderators, if someone gets out of control there are established regulations that have been set up for the safeguarding of this site. And if this person Tj is dishonest, it is more of a downfall for her than it is for this site or other Christians on this site I pray that Christ Jesus pour down on you constant abundant slow drops of His Holy water. Amen! Amen! Amen!

Yes about the times they wore these long garments, even men for that matter. It was most likely for many reasons, even protection against bugs, germs, to hot sunlight , a shield from weather conditions, a good way to conceal a weapon. The middle east can be quite hot or with desert storms, poor defense against bugs or germs, so covering up would make sense especially in those days with not the advanced technology that we have today. In the 20th century, the dress code has changed with the introduction of better hygiene, medicine, protection from weather conditions through heated housing, air conditioning... There were probably many more factors than one for wearing such highly covered garment gear. Wearing all these long covering garments definitely impedes away from more comfort and freedom of movement. At home were I live, I feel blessed to be able to wear the days I am not going out anywhere, cotton stretchballet pants (can't think of the name) and a top that is fitted so that my body movements can be as unrestricted as possible. To go out in public, being dressed clean, decent and sensible should be a Christians incentive weather you are a man or a woman. It does not have to be a total cover up from head to toe. I am glad that we live in a time wear choice of garment is not as restricted as it was in years past throughout different centuries. I mean at on point in time even certain fabrics of material or even jewelry were restricted to certain classes of people. Many times the dress codes of the times have been used for more than one purpose, but they all have in some way been used for expression of who you are and what social, religious standing you have.

As long as there are hurt souls looking for help and salvation , this topic will never end, just like substance abuse/drug abuse topics will never end as those in hurt needing a physician are looking for help. I hope also there will always be a helping kind christian hand ready and never tired to receive and help the one coming to ask for help. Sharing with one another our concerns can be very healing. Thank you gdemoss for your sharing and Pj, I will keep you in my prayers.

Thank you sister for your reply and explanation. From my understanding, when we go back to the Lord, there are no more tears, no more sorrows, that is why I was surprised to read that Abel was still lamenting his murder in heaven. But by the way you explained it I can see your point of view I am continuing to read the book of Enoch.... from certain passages I have already read, where it says that the saints in heaven are praying for the men on earth, I can see where the Catholics perhaps have gotten their take on saints and their intercession for us still on earth. The passage in ch.40 v6 6. The third voice I heard petitioning and praying for those who dwell upon earth, and supplicate the name of the Lord of spirits. God Bless

Thank you for your response. About "absent from the body and present with the Lord'. did not Jesus tell the criminal next to him who asked for pardon and His Mercy that as of today he would be with the lord? Luke 23:43 …42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" 43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise." From what I understand from scripture, Christian souls upon earthly death go back to God, the resurrection of the bodies comes later when Christ Jesus comes back in the 2nd coming. Also is it not written when Christ Jesus died a lot of dead souls were raised with Him? Mathew 27:53 …52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. 54 Now the centurion, and those who were with him keeping guard over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things that were happening, became very frightened and said, "Truly this was the Son of God!" Did the dead just rise for the occasion and than go back into their graves? or are they in paradise with the Lord? I in my own personal experience (which I really do not like to disclose on a public forum for reasons of ridicule and disbeleif ) but just to say, I have experienced sensing the soul depart from the body of someone dying. The body remains but the soul departs out of the body upon death. Also when my mother had her -stroke- accident a lot of strange things happened. In the early morning 6a.m.ish of her accident, the awnings of one of my windows came crashing down, right next to where my mother had stood a few days before when I had taken a picture of her in that very same spot. Also has I was driving to the hospital to see her, at an intercession light, from being totally nervous because of my mothers concerns all of a sudden from the top of my head to my solar plexus area, a sudden calm fell upon me and than I heard my mother say to me in spirit: its o.k. (my name) I am alright. By experiencing this I knew my mothers soul was now hovering out of her body. It had not yet departed but it was hovering out of her body. And this is how she connected to me. I can say a lot more from what happened after my mom had her - fatal-stroke-, but I don't feel it a safe place hear to talk about it, but I know what I experienced. It was quite supernatural. My mother in her final years was very much a bible believing Christian lady, she was the fist lady deacon appointed to the Pentecostal church she attended. (Now that does not mean much) but just to say she was a true believer in Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit did work in her. After she passed, I read some journals of hers where she described certain dreams she had that came to be, namely her death and namely my moving to the country where i now live. 2 years before she died, she dreamt of the day of her accident and what would take place in the hospital. Also she wrote a year before she died, that she dreamt of seeing me move into the country place and that she saw children she did not know helping me move. And she wrote that seeing me move to the county was definitely not in our plans. It definitely was not in our plans, I had an active life and business in the city prior to my mothers passing. Moving to the country was definitely not in my plans either. About the children she saw that she did not know in her dream of me moving to the country. This did happen, children from a Pastor came to help me move out certain things. My mother had never met that pastor nor his children More weird unexplained things happened, but if I explain them here, I will probably be mocked or told was I experienced were demons or such. Suffice it to say ,I know the things that I experienced were supernatural and they greatly assured me that life continues after death. My mothers body may be in the grave, but her soul/spirit is with the Lord. And I have no problem in accepting we be soul/spirits without a body but in the presence of the Lord until Christ second resurrection time, when the bodies of the dead in Christ shall arise . As for those who dead but not in Christ? Yes perhaps likely their spirit soul are held asleep in a certain place that is different from those that are dead in Christ.