Your closest friendnt

When Paul run away from those who wanted to kill him, the lower him in a basket from the wall, I don't think he advice the people who help him, that if you are question tell the trouth, so they can died in his place, no I don't think so. Even Rahab was bless for hiding th spies, and she lied to those who were looking for them, risking her own life. And she was saved and bless and she became part of the line of Jesus, and all that because she did what? And the otherprophetess (Debora her name?), she said to the King "here cover your self under the blanket, and hide from your enemies", but instant she kill him. And she was rewarded from God,"it was Gods will , for Rahab, and for Debora" The point is what we learn from those stories, not to seek self righteousness but he will of God. do what it takes to remain alive, you are usefull to Jesus alive not dead. The Scriptures don’t say, “Thou shalt not lie.” They say “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor." The Scriptures say, “Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.” The LORD commended the two spies who came back from the Land of Promise with a good report, and the LORD commended the spies who were sent to Yericho (Jericho) by honoring their promise to Rachav (“Rahab”) and her family. I also think you are thinking about the account of Ya’el (Jael) who drove a tent peg through the temple of the captain of YaaViyn’s (Jabin’s) army, Ciycraa’ (Sisera). She, too, was commended by the LORD. Also, you might want to add Piynchaac (Phinehas) who took a javelin and thrust it through an Israelite who went in to a Midnaaniyt (Midianite woman), thrusting it through the both of them, pinning them both to the ground! The LORD commended Piynchaac and stopped a plague because of his action. The Scriptures also say, “Be angry and SIN NOT!" The Scriptures teach, “Do whatever it takes to be righteous!" But, "be wise" also. God doesn’t commend being a fool! Shalom "Retrobyter" and thank you for your reply and your informative input.

There may be millions of believers who believe so, but there are almost 2 billion who don't. Calvinism, with its version of predeterminism, IMHO misses the boat entire on this subject. The scriptures do not deny salvation to anyone - God has not ahead of time decided who would be saved and who would not be. The gift of salvation is offered to all. We do actually have free will and can choose to accept or reject it. Do you think God knew " ahead of time " who would, and who would not accept His offering ? Yes,God did know ahead of time who would accept His offering and go to heaven. God has propose from the bigining that only those with faith in Jesus Christ will inherit heavens, because heavens is given to Jesus by God the Father. God also new that not every one would believe. To say other wise and to make up things, like he new in specific detail who is going to believe or not, is not in the will of the Father and or Jesus Christ, God loved the world, and Jesus died for all, and go to all and bring the Good news, not every one would believe, but you go to all. Some will be disciples and some will just believe, accept both.

When Paul run away from those who wanted to kill him, the lower him in a basket from the wall, I don't think he advice the people who help him, that if you are question tell the trouth, so they can died in his place, no I don't think so. Even Rahab was bless for hiding th spies, and she lied to those who were looking for them, risking her own life. And she was saved and bless and she became part of the line of Jesus, and all that because she did what? And the otherprophetess (Debora her name?), she said to the King "here cover your self under the blanket, and hide from your enemies", but instant she kill him. And she was rewarded from God,"it was Gods will , for Rahab, and for Debora" The point is what we learn from those stories, not to seek self righteousness but he will of God. do what it takes to remain alive, you are usefull to Jesus alive not dead.

Sarah had a very stange personality, I don't mean to judge her, and I won't do that. But if I had daughters and tell them that Sarah is your role model, who is going to come to my rescue? they will tell me the story of Sarah parading her self, adorned with the most expensive dressing of the time, ( Abraham was a very rich man) and the most expensive jewelry of the time, making herself attractive at that age to be fit to stay in the palace of Faraow, and the lies, and the deception, and the distruction in her path, in the house of Faraow, and the gain in material as a result. Do you get this picture, or you want the one with Agar, and the child she left to died in the dessert, do you think my children will be under some spell not to see that, they will laugh at my suggestion. or should I tell the parents of my intended wife, that I want your daughter in marriage, but she must learn to called me Lord. Or if I tell this to my fiancé. Can you guess their reactions? Did she do all these things without any fear? I do no see most of what you are saying even in scripture. And really do not know how you know what Sarah's personality was like. Sorry. We don't know at all what she was really like except a few clips. A few clips from anybody could give the wrong impression. But not only that, sounds like you are saying scripture is wrong by her calling him lord? That was a very cultural thing. Everybody called certain other people lord when showing submission to them. I am not mean to Sarah and I did not say those things out of my mean heart, but I don't idolize her or any one else for that matter. To idolize someone will cause willful blindness, of course every thing I said about Sarah is written in the scriptures, that's where I got the stories about her, every one reading the bible, the can see it for them selfs, and I did not say, that she is only mean and did not treet others good as well. But she may call Abraham Lord, but Abraham got her fear on him, and he did not intercede for Agar or the child, ( he intercede for Sodoma) and he said do with her and the child as you wish, he would be also co-responsible if the mother and the child had died, and that what would have happen, if the Good Lord did not save them. That tell us that the will of the Good Lord was for them to live and be bless. even if Agar was wrong to Sarah, does that mean that her punishment was to died without water, and how about the child, what did the child did? to died from thirst too? Or is it because the name of the child was not Isaac? Jesus Christ has died for all, there is only one Savior, the same Savior for Sarah and Agar and Isaac and Ismael, o!! We forgot Abraham.

Paul is not saying to the believers in Jesus Christ " the wages of sin is death" because the believers are not in their sins. Then if they are not in their sins, where are they? They are under the blood of Jesus Christ. The eternal fountain of the blood of Jesus. Jesus has paid the price, he has bought us with his blood. We are his possession and it is our life. When someone denies or rejects the sacrifice of Jesus, then he is in his sins, he has death, if he repents from his denial and believes the he has life. The life of Jesus Christ.

Niether one. first came the one who was going to pollinate the chicken.

Matthew 22:34-40, Jesus was taulking to the Jews, who had the blood line of Abraham, the sircumsition, one God, the creator, who celebrated their religious holidays, who had the need of the Temple, and the priesthood and so on. He did not tell them the time has come, to leave all those things behind, and practice the greate commandment to go to heaven. No he did not. Neither he told them that those without the scriptures they will be saved by practicing the great commandment.( the Gentiles ). I am the way to the Father in Heaven, no one is going there, only through me, I am the door. He did not say those who never heard the Gospel of Jesus, they will be save by obedience to the Gospel of the great commandment, and the knowledge that there is a God. Instant he said this the blood of the new covenant, which it's going to be shed for the forgiveness of your sins. Forgiveness of SINS does not come through the obedience to the great commandment and or the believe that there is one God, and or through the Gospel of having a pure heart without faith in Jesus Christ who died for that propose to give us the forgiveness of Sins, the eternal life, and the heavenly inheritance. The only way to have peace with the Heavenly Father is through the Attonment of the blood of Jesus, and that's how we receive of his spirit. He said if you don't have me, you are still in your sins, and you don't have God.

I have a lot of friends from Moslem background, they know that I don't keep their holidays, but they proud to talk about theirs. So I listen, and ask some questions, and leave at that. And then, the master plan. One day I said to the one who was telling me about their holidays. Last Sunday I went to baptism!!! O, yea, what is this, tell me about it. Thats it the door open, in my description of the events, I mention the Gospel of reconcilation, the forgiveness of sins, and the eternal life, and the new heavenly inheritance .

Sarah had a very stange personality, I don't mean to judge her, and I won't do that. But if I had daughters and tell them that Sarah is your role model, who is going to come to my rescue? they will tell me the story of Sarah parading her self, adorned with the most expensive dressing of the time, ( Abraham was a very rich man) and the most expensive jewelry of the time, making herself attractive at that age to be fit to stay in the palace of Faraow, and the lies, and the deception, and the distruction in her path, in the house of Faraow, and the gain in material as a result. Do you get this picture, or you want the one with Agar, and the child she left to died in the dessert, do you think my children will be under some spell not to see that, they will laugh at my suggestion. or should I tell the parents of my intended wife, that I want your daughter in marriage, but she must learn to called me Lord. Or if I tell this to my fiancé. Can you guess their reactions? Did she do all these things without any fear?

take note that not one mention of the actual Gospel being heard or knowledge of Jesus himself for those going to heaven...... and it appears to me that some who are not going to heaven expected to do so...... Matt 25:31-46 31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 "And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You drink? 38'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39'And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 "And the King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' 41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' 44 "Then they themselves also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' 45 "Then He will answer them, saying, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." NASB take note that not one mention of the actual Gospel being heard or knowledge of Jesus himself for those going to heaven...... and it appears to me that some who are not going to heaven expected to do so...... There is not mention here. (of heaven) or (those going to heaven). And there is not mention here of (Hell), or (some who are not going to heaven). Jesus was taulking of the kingdom of God in parables And then on verse 31, on chapter 25, in the book of matthew, Jesus began with a very peculiar introduction, "When the Son of Man sall come in his Glory and all the holy angels with him, then sall he sit upon the Throne of his Glory." (he new that he had to died before he receives his Glory) Then the most strange words came out of his mouth, "and before him shall be gather all nations". he is not giving Israel or Juda any special place among the Nations. Then he will come in the Glory of the Great Judge of all. "every knee shall bow before him, and every tongue will call him Lord," within all he included, the parishes and .....the high priest). Like he was telling the audiences that you will not see my Glory revealed , the way you want to, the way you are asking to, so you can believe in me as the Christ, but you will see my Glory on the Day of your judgement. ( Jesus finish with very disturbing news for the Jews, first he did not give them a special place among the other nations, and then, he went on to tell them, how he will punish them for what they are going to do" to his disciples, knowing that the Jews are going to prosecute his disciples, and deprive them of water and food and put them in the prison. He surprised them, because he discrived himself with the Glory that belong to the Christ. All this happen, days before the great sacrifise of the Lamb of GOD, before the shedding of the blood of the new covenant. Before the great commission.

How I wish what you say is truth, then the good news to those who know that there is God will be to have and maintain a good consience. And to those who have a good consience, the good news will be to know that there is God. Then many will be saved who have not believe in Jesus Christ. i am convince that's not the message Paul is trying to get through with this passage, I know also, that's not what you believe and that's not what you teach, but that's how it comes out from your statement. Those people are not saved. No one can be saved, by believing there is God and having a good consience. No one can be under the blood of Jesus Christ by applying those two principals. And no one can receive the spirit of Christ this way. And no one can be a heir or co-heir of the heavens together with Jesus Christ. Sorry but not the teaching of Paul of how we inherit heavens. There is something called invincible ignorance my dear friend. Invincible ignorance is ignorance one is not able to overcome. God's arm is not too short to save. God is able to impute to those who have not heard the gospel, salvation through the blood of Jesus and be righteous and just in His judgments, for He examines our hearts before He rewards our deeds. God is God. God is not limited to the ordinary means of salvation He has made known to us. Who are we to question God? that's how I see it, heavens is given to Jesus Christ, judgement is given to Jesus Christ, GOD is not the Savior of the world, he is not the one who died and open the way to heavens. GOD has Honor Jesus and gave him all authority and all Judgement, he made Jesus Lord and our peace with him. GOD have decided not to Judge anyone, and he does not interfere and make exceptions to the rule, if that what you are sugesting. No GOD can not play agains his own rules, he can not break his own covenant. No one can inherit heavens without having the spirit of Jesus Christ, and no one can be sealed with the spirit of Jesus Christ unless he is under the blood of Jesus Christ, and no one can be under the blood of Jesus unless he believes that Jesus is the Lamb of GOD who takes away the sins of the world, and no GOD can not substitute faith in Jesus for a heavenly inheritance.

How I wish what you say is truth, then the good news to those who know that there is God will be to have and maintain a good consience. And to those who have a good consience, the good news will be to know that there is God. Then many will be saved who have not believe in Jesus Christ. i am convince that's not the message Paul is trying to get through with this passage, I know also, that's not what you believe and that's not what you teach, but that's how it comes out from your statement. Those people are not saved. No one can be saved, by believing there is God and having a good consience. No one can be under the blood of Jesus Christ by applying those two principals. And no one can receive the spirit of Christ this way. And no one can be a heir or co-heir of the heavens together with Jesus Christ. Sorry but not the teaching of Paul of how we inherit heavens.

I was wondering if what your thoughts were on the latter part of the passage. What do you believe this means? for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. Hello, One Light, I have seen your question, but also I have seen that no one has responded to it. For some time I have been wondering about to what Paul had in his mind, and the point he wanted to make. It's not easy ( to take the risk to be called a heretic by many of the breathen when finally I desided) to let my thoughts known to others, then realizing that Jesus Christ new my thoughts and the process of my reasoning, before even I make them known to any one, and not only mine, but he knows everyone's thoughts. And this is exactly what the scripture says; " that our thoughts are known to Jesus Christ. And that is because God has appointed Jesus Christ to be the Judge , or to do the Judgement not only to some, but even every one who lived before him. And to judge the thoughts and the actions of everyone. That God has appointed Jesus Christ to know not only the actions of every one but also their intent and their motives. That God has given to Jesus Christ the Throne of judgement, that Jesus Christ will do the Judgement for all people, not only for us who are still alive, or those who were alive from the beginning of his appointment as a judge but also for those who had pass away or died from the beginning, from the first man Adam, even thought Jesus was not born yet, and or he had not be declare to be the Christ yet, and be bestow that authority by God. It tell us that God who knows all things, will make known to him all things so he can be the Judge of all in the above matters of works and intents and motives. ( in the past God judge only his people ( the seed of Abraham and or the seed of the Law of Moses), but God had also judge people out of the seed of Abraham and the Law. (he had judge the people sometimes on an individual basis and some times as a group, and that was before, during, and after Abraham till the time GOd gave Jesus Christ all authority, including the authority to be the Judge of all people from the very beggining, regardless of any background. Here Paul does not pave the way for a foundation of who will enter heavens or not, no he is definately not. Paul has repeatetly explain that, during the judgement of faith Jesus Christ will determined between the two, who has beleive in him, (like he does not know already), and have his spirit, and can be with him, ( he is the Life Giver), and who has denied him, and have refuse the Life Giver, that is Jesus Christ the Savior, the one who died for all, and he can not be with him. Jesus Christ will judge every one in the above manner, those with his spirit will see GOD. That takes us to those who don't fit in any of the above two groups. Even thought Jesus can judge their actions, and thoughts, intents and motives, still he can not give or denied to give his spirit to them, till he makes the judgement of faith in them. In their state of been that is not possible. The spirit can be given only trough faith in him. And without the spirit it is impossible to belong to him and be in heavens or see GOD, the FATHER. You must be one with them in spirit. So GOD must make a way for them to hear the Gospel and be able to make their dicision of believing or not in jesus, the Christ of GOD, and that can only happen for them, while they are out of their bodies, so Jesus Christ can judge not only their works, intents, thoughts and motives but also the most important their faith in him or their rejection. The same way Jesus had to go and declare the Good News, to them who were out of the body, when he died and was out of the body himself, how else could he descent to Hades and give the spirit first to the children of Abraham who were waiting for the Christ to come, and after to rest of the people down there, to all till not Noah, but all the way till Adam, if not how can Adam and Abel be free from their captivity if the don't recieve the spirit of Christ from the Life Giver him self. Conclussion GOD has a plan for them to here the Gospel out of their bodies and be judge according to the faith and or their denial. Those who believe will receive the spirit of life from Jesus Christ, and they can be with him where he is.

Those people are in for a rude awakening. Just my opinion. I would say you will know them by their fruits.. It sounds to me as if this woman is under the wrong assumption of what a real believer is. These people they can see the Essenes of the part of the good news, " saved by Grace and that's not of your selfs, is the gift of God"or should I say:" Jonh 3:16, or nothing can take you away from me, no sin no nothing, the one who believes in me even if he sins he lives in me, "the wages of sin is dead is out", under the eternal founded of the blood of Jesus. those people are very happy in Jesus, they have a Joy and happyness not too many believers have, the dont have the fear of hell, the trust totally in Jesus, God bless their faith. They can laugh in the face of the Devil, they are able to mock the Devil, they can tell him, you can do with us and our afflictions as you please, even make it worse for us and torment us here on earth, BUT you can not have us for eternity, you can not use our sins as a reason to take us from Jesus, Jesus has died and paid for our sins, and he is the judge of our faith.

I read the scriptures, does it say that the old is out."the wages of sin is death", the new is in, in Jesus Christ we are under his righteousness, we still have our own, and even if we are unrighteous in our selfs, Jesus is still righteous, we are the ones sining not him, and we still are under his blood, we still believe, sin can never give any one who believes in Jesus death, Is that what you call argument, clarifieing matters , I accept an examination and I will never walk away, and I will review everything in due time, carefully. But I was not all the time like that, I was quite the opposit, if I remain without argument, with a lazy mind in spiritual matters, then if I was born without Christ, then for sure I would died without Christ, been indifferent. Jesus gives thirst to know. Does it matter if we learn from our confusion too. What is cares of life, according to your gospel, without knowing have judge something good? Do you know that Jesus envy to have Paul for himself, for he found what he needed in the camp of the enemy, and for other reasons, And who can tell Jesus to turn his back to the very people he care about before he died, the more he cares for them after he died, the strongest believers, and kinder are those who have expirience in the cares of life, I don't ignore the extreme, and closed mindlessness. And the influence of distortion. But we are not in heaven. I don't mean disrespect and I am not highjacking your post, but I wiil say something and you judge and arguing with your self. I only had Jesus as a Savior the most part of my life, later I decided to "follow Jesus" and repented, and ask him to be a guide to me in the newest of life and hopefully he can benefit from me, making me usefull for his work.

Amen, I will love to have this experience, but knowing my self, first I will try to teach him my ways. God bless.

Get control of your mind now, dont become paranoid, they are many reasons why computers freeze. Don't be like the parents of that litle boy, quick to see demonic activity. one time I gave a ride to some Christians with a worn out muffler in my car. On the way they ak me to stop, they got out of the car,and started rebuking the demon from the muffler. (broken muffler, so the noise continiun). Then someone said, this thing needs fasting and prayer. Then I got out from the car, and kick the muffler apart from the exhaust, ( I did not shared their dilutions) but when I said if the devil does not listen to you to come out, you kick him out, they all marvel, they said, one , two , three kicks, that's the right combination, guard your mines, and help brothers like that. ( it's a truth even). after a week I gave them a ride with a repair muffler. When they notice how quite the car was, they said. When Jesus set you free, you are free indeed. And every one said, Amen, guard your minds, and help brothers under these influences.

This the blood that will be shed!! The blood was shed when Jesus died.

Actually, the deaths of Nadab and Abihu correspond to the deaths of Ananias and Saphira: both twosomes brought a forbidden offering before the Lord, and he killed them. Also, John the Baptist died before the New Covenant was established at the Last Supper.

I don't mean to be rude to you, The title said, God still loves the Jewish people, but he scripture you qoute, it says the seed of Israel. You make it sound that all the other tribes will be utterly destroyed and only some of the tribe of Juda will be spare. What kind of love is this? How did he love them? By not destroying all of them? I will also CAST OFF, ALL the seed of Israel . i will not destroyed all of them? For all that they have done. it seems that the people new that the Lord was very angry at them and he seek to destroy all of them. And the Lord Promish that even thought he wants to (and that is not the first time, that he seeks to destroyed them), but he will not do it, he will spare some of them. or I have a remant left among them. Personally I exalt only Jesus who died to give life to all, even to his enemies.

When does the new covenant began? does it begin with the death of Jonh? Is Jonh the lamb, that God had Promish to Abraham? Are we redeemed by the blood of Jonh? Did Jonh needed redemption himself? Does the new covenant ends? Does that mean Christ will disobeyed GOD and fall like the first Adam?

In my opinion, this is neither a sin to Christ, and nor to your fellow man, and not a sin against the one who has taken control of you. If there is no intent on your part, and there is nothing else you could do under those sircumstanses. In the old testiment, when someone steals food, because of extreme need to survive, and he is caught, he is let go without any punishment. When we believe that, Jesus Is the Christ, we have obeyed GOD, who is telling us to believe in his Som. Not everything you consider disobedience are nessary disobidience to somebody else.

Thank you for your post, it's makes good sense, very often we want to know too much. is good to know the one who has been there, that also knows how to get us there, we are not going to be alone, how about if we meet a lot of fog on the way. Or a sand storm. and ended up in the wrong park. Thank for your post.

Regarding "HEAVEN" we all know that's where God is, and where Jesus is seated on the THRONE on the right hand of GOD, and that's where we are going as believers of the SAVIOR. We don't need to know everything about HEAVENS. Just that, the opposite of Heaven is Hell. Now regarding Paradise, we must exersize caution as not to get confuse. First we must aproch the question by looking at it after the glorification of Jesus Christ or his resuraction and before. After the resuraction it is made very clear about the heavenly Paradise. And many things are suggesting that God will have for us there everything we need, make it simple for your self, when you go there, you going to have many of your questions answer. Now going back before the glorification of Jesus Christ or the CROSS, or before the appearance of the spiritual children of GOD. We know about the Garden of EDEN or Paradise, and we know that was here on earth, some place in Palestine or around that area, baybe that's why the Lord God said this LAND is mine. And we know that he put His children there at the time of creation, Adam and Eve. The spiritual substance is gone with the disobidience of Adam and Eve. Later when he had taken Abraham and his children to be his own children, the children of God but without the spirit of God, he gave them the palestine as their earthy inheritance, and for their spiritual inheritance after death he gave them a place separated from the rest of the people in Sheol (or Hades), as a waiting place, till Jesus after his death will go there to give them life and take them with him to heavens. That place was in the sides of Sheol as David put it, which it was call the BOSSOM of Abraham, which also is called Paradise, (a peasful waiting place for the children of God). That place is also finish at the time when Jesus Christ free them from their spiritual captivity and took Abrahan with the rest of them to Heaven. ( a picture of that is Egypt, and the children of God were waiting for their exit from there, but in a separated place called the Land of Gosan, which was in Egypt but separated from the Egyptians. To make it clear, Paradise is always associated with a place where the children of GOD are. Today God has the spiritual children and Paradise is where he has place his children. In the heavens.

EI am wondering if you are sugesting that Adam was created in heaven-paradise, (the same), or after God created him on earth, he put him in heaven- paradise, ( the same), and that's where everything happen? In heaven-in paradise, ( the same). Are you sugesting, that before the death of Jesus Christ, all believers went to heaven-paradise,(the same)? Are you sugesting, that Jesus Christ, upon. His death, he went to heaven-paradise, (the same), and took all those believers with him to paradise-heaven, (the same)? by saying believers, what is that? Who are they? And what they blieved? And even thought they believed, were they accepted (or their faith) by God? Or were they rejected? Read the Parable of the Rich man and Lazarus Luke 16:19-31.There was a huge separation between the two.Although those in Sheol could see those in paradise. Jesus did not take those in Sheol to heaven but he did speak with them. Luke16:26, is referring to a great Gulf, and no crossing from either sides is allow, so Lasarous can not refresh with water the rich man,16:24. Is it because Lasarous was not the one, who had the Water of Life? What do you suggest, that, Jesus spoke to the people in Sheol, from the Bossom of Abraham, which BOSSOM of Abraham, including Abraham was also in Sheol, and it's occupants were dead, not only dead to earth, but also dead to God. and telling them what? That he has the water of life only for the ones in the Bossom of Abraham, and not for them. That he is the savior but not for them, and that God will sent another savior to them. Is that what you are saying, that he just taulking to them from a distance? That he did not go to them to give them the Water of Life? Luke: 16:27,28, the rich man ask Abraham to sent Lasarous to his brothers here on earth. 16: 29, Abraham , denied his request, they have Moses and the prophets Luke16:30, nay, father Abraham, if one went to them from the dead, they will repent. ( the rich man is referring to Abraham and the rest in his Bossom as the "DEAD") and in Luke 16: 31, Abraham confirms that they are the "DEAD", and he said unto him , if they here not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the "DEAD". You keep saying that Jesus took Abraham and those with him to heaven, as they are discrived as "DEAD". But not only them if there is only one savior, and he did not just taulking ,to the rest of the people in Sheol . Jesus declare the good news of the Gospel to all down there, as in Isaiah 61:1, that I have come to set the captives free and to open the prison door to give Liberty to all. Thats exactly what he said, before he died, that the "DEAD" will rise first.