Mike 2

If we take this passage in its context we get the meaning of it. The coming of Jesus and his sacrifice for all that believe presents the question "well what about all those in the past that never had the chance to hear the Gospel because they were before Jesus time"? Paul answers this in the verses you have quoted, this all falls comfortably into the category of having faith in God . God knows the hearts of all men and knows if they are truly seeking Him. (I can't help but wonder how this applies to the person secluded on an island in the middle of the ocean or in the jungles of the Amazon totally detached from the rest of the world.) Christs sacrifice includes the forgiveness of ALL sin and the fulfilling of that forgiveness is in a persons faith in Gods righteousness. Paul is saying that all in the past that had faith in God are covered by the blood as well. Paul writes extensively about faith in God in both Romans and Hebrews. check out Abraham (Rom 4:3) Those of us from Christ on to the present have the benefit of having the gospel revealed to us whereas the people before Jesus could only hope. This is not talking about OUR past sin (although it includes them). It is talking about the sin of the PEOPLE in the past. Once we have been saved we then start to work that outwards. Paul is saying to then start working outward what you believe inward. For most of us that goes against the sinful culture we have been living in, that takes some determination in many cases and results in some scary situations as we confront opposition to our new spiritual life. I can think of many times when I worked my salvation outwards in some very awkward and counter cultural circumstances. Fear and trembling, definitely....but what a high knowing that the Holy Spirit was working through me! It's all part of our sanctification.

I think Yown makes a good point in bringing up sanctification. Many people get being sanctified mixed up with doing things in order to be saved, Jehovah's Witness are a clear example but there are many others. Is it possible that what Paul is really saying here "have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (v.5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come" means that for those that REALLY AND TRULY have had this experience...it is actually so impossible for them to fall away that, it would therefore be impossible for the need for Christ's work again if somehow, they could fall away. It may be that we misunderstand the term "fall away". The only beings I can think that would fall into this category would be the fallen angels that were in the presence of God. The rest of what you are saying I think is begging the question 'what must one do then in order to "maintain" ones salvation?' Works? That kinda goes against what the bible teaches us about being saved by grace through faith. Heb 10:10 By God's will we have been sanctified once and for all through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus, the Messiah. Heb 10:11 Day after day every priest stands and repeatedly offers the same sacrifices that can never take away sins. Heb 10:12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, "he sat down at the right hand of God." Once and for all. Once for all men (humans) Once for all sin This grace that demonstrates a love that surpasses all understanding continues to forgive our sins, whether by committing a sin or omitting to do something we should. The comments in the OP seem to contradict this.

Here's my way of thinking on this; Adam and Eve sinned when they ate the fruit that they were told not to. Interestingly, it was Adam and Eve that imposed their own punishment. They chose to separate from God. You will notice in the story that God was walking through the garden looking for them. Logic would tell us that God knew they sinned, yet there was God still pursuing them. It was Adam and Eves guilt that caused them to feel exposed and embarrassed, both physically hiding behind "clothing" and spiritually hiding from God. We do the punishing to ourselves by reminding ourselves that we don't measure up. That is what is meant in part in Heb 2:15 And let those who all their lives were in chains because of their fear of death, go free. We are enslaved to the idea that because we don't measure up we will be punished some how, forgetting that we are made righteous in Christ. I think we are the ones that do the punishing to ourselves and to each other. He's there waiting for us, he wants to be a part of our lives but we are embarrassed by our sin, we step away, He steps forward, like Adam and Eve we too let our actions separate us from God and, well, we kinda suffer. God stands by and waits Jas 4:7 Therefore, submit yourselves to God. Resist the devil, and he will run away from you. Jas 4:8 Come close to God, and he will come close to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. The Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin and in that sense we see God as the punisher when we start to suffer the consequences of our actions. Of course we have to blame someone for the consequences. Something else the Holy Spirit does is compel us to repent, that correction as a part of sanctification can be long and arduous pushing us out of the worldly norms and towards kingdom behavior. Resisting that can be very punishing as we agonize between what we know is right and the fear of how our worldly position might change.

In order to get the full meaning of anything written in the bible we must come to the understanding that we live a duel life There is a you living inside of that body. We are constantly subject to how we are perceiving what is around us and how we respond to that. That is us living in the world. The bible tells us that that is only temporary and that our real life is found in our spiritual life, that part of us that is not physical but spiritual/ emotional and that's what we should focus on based on what Jesus has taught us Learning to respond to the spiritual needs of others is a big part of what Jesus is talking about. We often have conflict when we see a spiritual principal that the bible teaches, conflicting with what our culture or society says is the norm. That's when we have to choose not to pursue the love of the world around us and choose to follow the teachings of Jesus despite how we feel we might be at a disadvantage in light of everyone elses standard. Looking after the earth is a good thing, unless you start having relationships with people and God being pushed into second place.

Is Jesus at work in the world today, or is God working in the world in a different way? HOW?

I have to agree with Yowm on the Thompson chain bible.....tons of information in there. Lots of cross reference aids. and you don't need electricity to read it. I do have an NIV version. Something I have found very useful is the e-sword bible program. I highly recommend it. It is a free download. The program takes a while to download but once you do you can down load like a bazillion different bible versions, commentaries and dictionaries even the Naves topics that Yown also mentioned. Once you learn how to use it , searching topics is a lot easier...type in a few key words and hit enter. I also highly recommend you download the ISBE in the dictionary section, it's very extensive I must say though that nothing beats just reading the bible and asking the Lord to put the knowledge in your head so you can recall it when he wants you to. God bless

I stand corrected Now, that aside...... What makes Christianity different in that we can say "it is finished" Jesus is the final word? How do we reason that? I'm curious to hear how different people would respond to that.

LOL I was sitting on the fence whether I would use that word or not

So I'm at a party the other day and I meet this guy, nice pleasant guy. He tells me he is following the Bahai religion. He talked a fair bit about his religion but what stuck out to me most is that he said (basically) they believe that God continues to send prophets and they are following the teachings of the latest prophet from which the religion of Bahai comes from. I can't help but get a sense of how a Jew must feel when I come along and say I am a Christian and Jesus supersedes the Law . I'm not looking for a discussion about that religion but what I am suggesting, in light of "revelations" that have resulted in Islam, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witness and others is that we discuss.... What makes Christianity different in that we can say "it is finished" Jesus is the final word? How do we reason that? I'm curious to hear how different people would respond to that.

Hey BK1110 I don't know what your disability is and I say this with sincerity. Get someone you know is a believer to baptize you, pour a cup of water on you, drip some water from a rag, doesn't matter. I believe that it's the ACT of the baptism done from a confessing soul that shows it's willingness in whatever way they can, that God honors. I suppose there are some theologians that are going to argue that you have to be hanging upside down with a Bat suit on as opposed to a Spiderman suit or any one of a dozen other "correct" ways. I say poopoo to them, don't let their understanding take this away from you. You do this with someone and with a love for the Lord in your heart and I believe it's legitimate. Blessings brother.

No it's not but it has a lot to do with a wonderful life in the Kingdom of God. Take a look at the circumstances surrounding Jesus baptism. Mat 3:14 But John tried to stop him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and are you coming to me?" Mat 3:15 But Jesus answered him, "Let it be this way for now, because this is the proper way for us to fulfill all righteousness." Jesus has given us a hint in those words, and we see about what when we notice what happened after his public declaration. He was tempted in the face of that and.. He started his ministry. It's interesting that we see that baptism is significant in the beginning and then at the end of our Lords ministry. Look at what his last words were. Mat 28:19 Therefore, as you go, disciple people in all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, Mat 28:20 teaching them to obey everything that I've commanded you. And remember, I am with you each and every day until the end of the age." If we don't obey the simple instruction to be baptized, what hope do we have of responding in faith to the greater things God wants to call us to. This is the meat and potatoes of what James is talking about in Jas. 2:14-26 ( I don't want to get side tracked with the James passage but what James is saying IS NOT that you have to do works for salvation, rather, he is saying what BK1110 is saying, if you're not ya gotta wonder if you really have faith in God)

...........and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains but have no love, I am nothing. 1Co 13:3 Even if I give away everything that I have and sacrifice myself, but have no love, I gain nothing. 1Co 13:4 Love is always patient; love is always kind; love is never envious or arrogant with pride. Nor is she conceited, 1Co 13:5 and she is never rude; she never thinks just of herself or ever gets annoyed. She never is resentful; 1Co 13:6 is never glad with sin; she's always glad to side with truth, and pleased that truth will win. 1Co 13:7 She bears up under everything; believes the best in all; there is no limit to her hope, and never will she fall. 1Co 13:8 Love never fails........... This ain't easy annnnd, you can't do it from a distance You can't help whether or not you like someone or their behavior but love..... Love is something you have to work at....and teach by example I gotta agree with Omegaman....sometimes humanness steps on love, that's why the verses from Paul can be hard to practice.

I think you have to keep in mind what Solomon was writing about in Ecclesiastes ....the frustrations and frivolousness of the pursuits of this world and that all the concerns of this world......mean nothing when we die. Doesn't matter if you were the worlds smartest person like Solomon,it counts for nothing when you're dead, when you die it goes with you and eventually you won;t even be remembered. So whats the big deal about worldly pursuits Taking this passage by itself without understanding the root of Solomon's message could easily cause us to think differently. I suggest reading the chapter before and after to understand what he is talking about and in the context it was intended. The dead know nothing.....they are of no help in this world. They have no further reward.....in this world (they are no longer a part of it) Just an aside; Solomon's writing causes me to ask...What will I do with my life that will leave a legacy, that will leave something lasting. It seems that Solomon is saying that chasing worldly things is like chasing after the wind. It really leaves me thinking that the only thing that can create a lasting memory is having a spiritual effect in peoples lives

Here's my thought; The fact that you are asking about it means that you are concerned about what God would think about it. That's good. Based on that I think if you pushed for an abortion you are going to be stuck with guilt and feeling bad. You are thinking about the abortion because you are thinking about yourself and how that child is going to cramp your life....thing is there is a big payoff as you guide and teach that child and watch them grow into a wonderful loving human. That's a nice payoff. From your own question you have presented, I think you have to ask yourself what's the payoff living the rest of your life thinking about that abortion. You may not be a Christian but it seems you believe in God . Something you need to know, and this is important, the God we as Christians follow is a loving and forgiving God. He can and has taken care of all mans sins, once and for all, through the work of the Christ (hence the word Christian). We are forgiven, however our guilt and sorrow of sin entraps us and makes us feel naked and embarrassed in front of God and our difficulty believing that God loves us despite our sin, separates us from God. I strongly suggest you take abortion off the table and consider something better.

I found this an enjoyable and informative read Thanks for the history lesson and the lesson on how the bible has been translated into English. I understand the challenge in translating into different languages is in not losing the meaning of the original text, particularly when the original language may be written in a way that the culture of the time would easily understand. I do think though that there is a place for bible translations other than the King James version. I can remember having a conversation with someone once along the lines of how the only valid, true and correct translation is the KJV and no other bible version should be used. I asked if he had kids bibles for his children........hmmm. My wife would not read a bible for years because she had understood all bibles to be written in KJV language which needs to be translated and understood in modern English before trying to understand what the writer is saying. I gave her a copy of the Message, something I consider to be an adult version of a child's bible. That enabled her to engage the messages in the writings, develop a reading habit and then understand in general the topic being discussed. She is now using a number of different bibles and comparing texts to gain a better understanding. I believe the only way to truly understand the bible is beyond how it is written or that it is just a person interacting with some writings, I believe it can only be truly understood when a person is honestly seeking God and invites him into their thinking, through the text. When that happens, I don't think the version being used at the time will stop that. Thanks again for posting this I really enjoyed reading it.

That's a different way of putting it.....but it works! I've also heard it put that we should not get between the hammer and the work. God being the hammer. Realizing that we are not the ones doing the saving (although that terminology is often used) takes a TON of pressure off us. Too often we think we have to walk away from an interaction fully knowing we have accomplished something. The problem is if we have it in OUR mind that, not just a homosexual, but anyone that we see as a sinner must see our point of view before we move on, we are just being selfish and heading towards making someone become defensive and dig in. Dancing with God and his Holy Spirit as we build relationships requires patience but oh we gain so much in the process. Learning to wait for Him and respond when He knows it is the right time, without pushing our own agenda requires a change of attitude. Knowing we have taken part in that dance while we have interacted with someone is really what it is all about. It gives us a reason to pray and interact with the Lord because just as you have said, it is recognizing that it is up to Him. We have to learn to be patient in a fast results world. There is a reason we live in a fast paced world....Satan has slowly but surely orchestrated that so that we won't take the time to wait on the Lord or others.

I couldn't agree with you more. You have done a very good job of describing the way I myself feel. I must say that parades for adulterers, thieves, murderers etc. are not needed now because they are all celebrated in the media/ TV /Movies in very liberal doses and widely accepted as part of normal viewing pleasure, homosexuality in those mediums is not far behind! I hope you can understand why I have responded the way I have; first because the question in the OP (seen at the top of the page) is "Can a homosexual be saved?" I believe so, for the reasons I have already expressed and you have pointed out. Another reason I respond the way I do is for the very reasons you have described... "People who claim that homosexuality is no worse than any other sin, and that we should get off their backs are failing to understand why homosexuality has now become an exceptional case. There is no repentance within the gay lobby, there's not even shameful practising in secret." What we are seeing is something that is becoming widely accepted whether willingly or by law. I see this as something that is a worldwide humanity thing that is not going to change so I believe we as Christians need to take a different approach in reaching homosexuals. We may not change the world but we might have an effect on 1 persons life. That is done by introducing them to the loving forgiveness from God that has already been doled out for ALL sin. I think in some, if not most of the cases with homosexuals it is counterproductive to keep trying to convince someone that they are a sinner by just focusing on homosexuality. If that's a hot button for a homosexual .....or even a heterosexual (you know who you are) then talk about the other sin in their life and let the Holy Spirit do the other convicting, He has a way of not descending into an argument. I think the horse is out of the barn when it comes to same sex ....anything..... Some are going to focus on fighting the tide, and there is nothing wrong with that......if honestly done with love (something hard to do corporately), I can support that to a degree. The problem with that is that it is a political football that really doesn't change a persons spirit in a positive way. Others will choose to engage in a loving, grace filled community and teach Jesus forgiveness that way. Personally I think entering into a relationship is harder than carrying a sign but if I can introduce someone to the reality of Gods forgiveness, I think the discomfort and awkwardness is worth it. This just came to mind. I don't think it is a far reach to say this applies when we are looking past the obvious sin of homosexuality and turning to the other sin in a persons life as an entry point for the gospel. Php 1:15 Some are preaching the Messiah because of jealousy and dissension, while others do so because of their good will. Php 1:16 The latter are motivated by love, because they know that I have been appointed to defend the gospel. Php 1:17 The former proclaim the Messiah because they are selfishly ambitious and insincere, thinking that they will stir up trouble for me during my imprisonment. To Live Is Christ Php 1:18 But so what? Just this—that in every way, whether by false or true motives, the Messiah is being proclaimed. Because of this, I rejoice and will continue to rejoice. We are not dishonoring God by not talking about the elephant in the room, we are dishonoring him by not learning how to present the gospel in a loving way. I think your last paragraph pointing out the aggressiveness of some is valid and I agree with you but I think it is deviating a bit from the OP. I wonder if it might even be an interesting topic for another thread on hardness and being given over to sin.

I agree with you on this JTC. I think this is so true. The wonderful thing about what you are saying really comes out when we think about turning more and more to Jesus Holy Spirit indwelling us, learning how to open that line of communication to the Father then working together.

Might add the often forgotten verses 17 and 18 to that to really drive home the point Joh 3:17 Because God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's unique Son.

Reminds me of the story of the man living downstream of a big dam. A torrential rain starts, various authorities come and warn him of the danger and offer a way to safety, even when he is stranded on the roof. He keeps responding, "I don't need your help, God will look after me" Well the dam bursts and the guy dies. He sees God in the afterlife and says "Why did you let me die?" God says..."I sent you help but you didn't take it" We know God busts into the most difficult situations. I'm convinced, although we may not see it or know of it, he does it in the life of everyone we know. Is it Gods fault he died? Is God responsible for that?Is God being fair? I think there may be an assumption in fantasymay's question that God is unloving because he is causing someone suffering in hell and lets that happen. Allow me one more analogy. A man is living in a mansion, everything he needs is being provided for him by some extremely rich person. Even though all his needs are being met, he decides he can do a better job of the decision making and dismisses the provider. Turns out he is not so good at providing for himself, definately not as good as the rich provider, it's a lot of work and compared to what he had, it's hell. Thing is, he won't acknowledge that it is better with the rich provider and he continues to believe that he can do it, he continues to believe that he will be able to reach that greatness himself.....and he continues in his struggle, on and on never achieving the happiness he seeks. Is the rich guy that got jilted unfair? Is the man missing out on something beautiful, something he will never attain but forever pursue, always knowing there is something better yet never admitting that the rich guy could help him... and would? Did the rich guy cause the mans demise? I can't help but believe that God makes EXHAUSTIVE efforts in every one of our lives (look at the OT efforts with Israel) and is heartbroken when someone becomes so hardened in their own self that they won't accept the incredible life he is offering......then die. This is a thought provoking chain.

In response to the title of this chain..." CAN A HOMOSEXUAL BE SAVED?" well, Can a murderer be saved? Can a liar be saved? Can a thief be saved? Can an adulterer be saved? What about alcoholics or drug addicts...do they have to stop drinking or taking drugs before they can be saved? Can anyone of us that sinned today be saved? Most importantly.....How many of us followed the very clear rule in the bible that states "YOU MUST CHANGE BEFORE YOU CAN BE SAVED"? To, to often we look at a homosexual's fornication and focus on that sin, that is like looking at a heterosexual's fornication and not seeing that they are lying, or cheating, or gossiping, or unforgiving, or....... As a Christian I know that we all fall short and we all need to learn that despite our failings, God has already made a way. That is the good news and that is the message that we should be sharing. I think that we have lost sight of the fact that Jesus the Christ died once for all, for all sin, for all people and I don't know of anywhere in the bible that says a person has to change BEFORE they can accept salvation. We do obviously need to recognize we are sinners and need forgiveness otherwise how do we know we need to be saved. So I ask the question is homosexuality the ONLY sin in a gay persons life? When it comes to the gay question I don't back away from acknowledging it as sin but I skip right to.....what is the sin in your life, forget the homosexual issue...what is the sin in your life, do you have any? Sharing the Gospel is about sharing the fact that it doesn't matter what or how much sin we have, we all have sin and it has all been forgiven. Rom 6:10 For when he died, he died once and for all as far as sin is concerned. We need to get off the homosexual merry go round and its shallowness. It should not be about getting someone to admit that homosexuality is a sin, it should be about acknowledging that we sin and need to accept forgiveness..... and there is all sorts of sin in a persons life, any ONE of which is enough to require forgiveness.

Here's my thoughts as to what Jesus meant by drinking his blood. It goes right back to the garden with Adam and Eve. Before I share my thoughts on that I think is important that I re assert what you have already alluded to, that is that the bible uses physical things that we know and understand to direct us to a spiritual truth. Jesus' use of parables is a clear example of how God uses stories in the physical that we can relate to to say 'this spiritual truth is like that'. With that in mind we see Adam and Eve sinning and then realizing their nakedness. God gives them a skin to cover that nakedness. There is a spiritual truth in that passage. When they disobeyed God, they could not hide that sin, it was completely exposed before God. The physical shame of their exposed naked bodies before each other points to the spiritual truth of the spiritual shame of sin before God . Because of that sin, spiritually they died in their relationship with God. In order to cover that spiritual sin and the spiritual life it destroyed, a life had to be given in it's place. The animal skin covered them physically, and the life that died to gain the skin, that life within its blood....... was given to cover the guilt and shame of the sin. (but it could never remove it) All through the bible we read over and over again that the blood is not to be consumed it is to be honored because "the life is in the blood" God, right from the beginning has reserved this idea of life in the blood for something specific. We see that all coming together when we see a man come along and start talking in parables, using physical things to talk about spiritual truths, a physical man whose whole life points to a spiritual truth. A man who takes something as important and honored as blood that is never to be consumed because of the life in it and says "drink my blood"...take my life into you. God not only comes to us physically but the spiritual truth is that he wants to be with us spiritually, he wants to give us spiritual life. Drink my blood....take my life into you. Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. We have to drink him in (spiritually) I'm sure much more can be said about this Genesis passage but I have tried to keep to the point.

Hi angels4u, I find what you have written interesting in that many of us look at the verses like you have quoted and consider them the same way. However, if we take the time to take the words apart and look at them closer we see that there is a deeper meaning. You said ...Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." "God-Jesus and the Holy Spirit are us in that verse and they are God. Jesus was there to create everything." The bible says: Joh 1:1 In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. Col 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation Col 1:16 For by him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether they are kings, lords, rulers, or powers. All things have been created through him and for him. Sorry.....it does not say JESUS was there, it says the Word/ the Son was, you are not separating the physical from the spiritual. Other than to simply state it, I don't see where you have made the connection that Jesus was there to create everything. You are actually doing what we all do without realizing it (and I'm part of the all), lumping the Son, the Christ and Jesus all into one category. There is nothing wrong with doing that, provided all of the people in the conversation are aware of what we mean. What I am saying is that we need to be aware that there is a difference and it can be confusing to someone that is trying to understand Christianity because of the assumptions we make (probably subconsciously) when we lump these terms together. Even the word CHRIST should be understood as THE Christ, when we do that it gives us a different understanding because where we see the word Christ being used can change the whole meaning of a passage as it may no longer be referring to a person but what that person did/ does. Why the word "the" has been dropped I don't know, I've asked a friend of mine that has a Phd. in New Testament textual criticism and he says it should be there and that it is definitely understood to be "the" Christ. You said: The Bible is clear about the divine nature of the Lord Jesus Christ (see John 1:1-14). Philippians 2:6-7 says that, although Jesus was "in very nature God, He did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness." This verse doesn't say just Jesus, you have stressed that but ignored the word Christ and it's meaning, in so doing we the readers are missing what the verse is actually addressing. It is talking about his nature.... the Christ. The word Jesus is used to identify the physical manifestation and everything we see the Christ working through. I don't think that was your intention at all, this is something we all do, we all bring are own theology to the text . I know I've read something for years, have a conversation with someone, go back and read the text and ...oh snap....I misunderstood that. Colossians 2:9 says, “In Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.” this says Christ, not Jesus. Christ lives IN the bodily form.....of Jesus We quickly make the jump from Christ to Jesus because we most often see them together. When we look at the verse quoted above 1 John 4:2-3 "By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh ......and understand that it is really saying "Jesus THE Christ" we see that the writer is pointing to something we know and see to direct us to something in the spiritual....the Christ. ....in the flesh... is indicating there is a spiritual and a physical component here, the "flesh" is the creation we call Jesus, the Christ is the spiritual in the flesh that the verse is directing us to recognize. Isn't it interesting to note that it is talking about a spirit confessing. Another example of how we get confused if we drop the word "the" is when speaking of THE HOLY SPIRIT. There seems to be a fad to drop the word THE before Holy Spirit.... it changes the meaning from the Holy Spirit into something different. I believe people are doing that intentionally to personalize the Holy Spirit. But I don't see it written that way in the bible except in a few occasions where, when taken in context the meaning does not change. Personally, I don't think we should be encouraging referring to the Holy Spirit as "Holy Spirit". I myself do not deny that when I look at the man that walked the earth 2000 years ago, the man that died on the cross, the man named Jesus that his Spirit was the Son of God incarnate in the flesh and that in him and what I see him do, that he is the Messiah/ Christ. I can easily say, and do, that Jesus is the Christ. But I am not saying that same body that died on the cross, that was born 34 years prior to that, existed in eternity past. The bible doesn't tell me that and I think we often use the name of Jesus in ways we don't realize can be confusing to some.

John 1 is talking about the WORD/ The Son of God becoming physical and that physical manifestation we come to know as Jesus. This is not about "Jesus" being around since the beginning. It's about THE SON OF GOD (the WORD) being around since the beginning. We see the Son of God living in and working through the created Jesus. Because we put them together in our physical understanding we naturally assume "Jesus" is eternal when it is The Son of God that is. He is the one who showed up in different forms in the past not Jesus.

I agree, and that's why I am saying that splitting hairs on the topic of how God works in the physical should not take away from what the message in the quote is....However... Looking at the conversation between your closestfreindnt and Pudgenet just before your post is a clear indication of how not having an understanding of who and what Jesus, the Christ and the Son are can create a lot of confusion. When we hear Jesus speaking , that is a physical manifestation from the spirit living within, it is the Son of God living within that is speaking about himself. John 1 is talking about the WORD/ The Son of God becoming physical and that physical manifestation we come to know as Jesus. Again, it's a matter of definition but if we don't use the names properly, we get the confusion.