Fidei Defensor

Thanks, happy debating. Fidei

I love deep discussions, debate, discipleship, and seeking out deep mysteries of Christ. But I often are reminded that everything must be in His love. Jesus makes it clear from get go, the Greatest Commands are based in love, "Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." (Matthew 22:36-41). The Ten Commandments are in point of fact partial wedding vows, the clause where the Lord says, "Have no other gods before me," is in same vein as "I wed thee, forsaking all others." The Ten Commandments were meant to show us how to love God and people. We are reminded by Apostle John, that "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love," (1 John 4;8), meaning that love comes from Him, He is its source, and so if we abide in Him (John 17:20-23) we then abide in His love and the source of love. This is why love is growing cold (Matthew 24:12), because world does not know Jesus and He is where love comes from. Then there is the warning of Apostle Paul, like a gong it rouses me, "Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ," (Ephesians 4:15) and "If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn’t love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I understood all of God’s secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if I had such faith that I could move mountains, but didn’t love others, I would be nothing. If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it; but if I didn’t love others, I would have gained nothing (I am nothing)," (1 Corinthians 13:1-3). Then the Apostle says, "Three things will last forever—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love.." (1 Corinthians 13:13). God's Love, manifested in Jesus Christ and His Sacrifice for us while we were still sinners (Romans 5:8, John 3:16), it is model for Jesus said, "no greater love than to lay down one's life for a friend." (John 15:13). Oh the love of God, the cardinal mark of Christ. Love is always where we can improve. It is easy to be become knowledgeable (I am not assaulting knowledge), it is easy to become more vigilant and even zealous, but learning to love in its complexity, "For God's throne is righteousness and justice, and love and truth are his attendants." (Psalm 89:14 NASB). Love has faces, "Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance," (1 Corinthians 13:4-7). It isn't a perpetual puppy dog licking us, it is mature, like we are, affected by actions. The more we show love, the more it grows and unfolds, God shows himself in different kinds of love, the drops of our blood (suffering), the deep compassion (tender loving kindness), and the discipline (notice its close to disciple), "Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent." (Revelation 3:19). The Love of God is vast and endless. My endeavor is to spread it, wither it be with mercy (as most picture it) or in justice (doing what is right even if someone doesn't like justice, it can be what is best for them). I know that the discussions get heated, but my heart is to share Love of God. At times it may seem like a sword, but that is seed that God can use as surgeon's knife to heal, but I also enjoy the sap of the olive branch with is encouragement and compassion. It is not easy to be operate in gift of Evangelist (which tend to lean on compassion) and the gift of Prophet (which tend to lean on justice), which are gifts as Apostle says, "Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers." (Ephesians 4:11, Greek really is Gifts not Offices). My hope is this thread can serve as place to share the love of God, discuss it, and if it only serves one purpose, a reminder to myself and all who read that we must not forget our first love, "But I have this complaint against you. You don't love me or each other as you did at first!" (Revelation 2:4), and "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another, By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." (John 13:34-35).

The One Thousand Year Reign of Christ happens (Revelation 20:4-9) after the Return of Christ and Winepress of His Wrath (Revelation 19:11-16). During the Millennial Reign there are saints that reign with Him but they are beheaded martyrs (Revelation 20:4). From what I gather there are four groups in Revelation: those supernaturally protected (Revelation 3:10), those who martyred (Revelation 6:9-11), those who die by sword (Revelation 13:10), and those who just die (Revelation 14:13). From what I can tell the Martyrs who are beheaded get to reign with Jesus, which will definitely included the Apostle Paul, and perhaps 200 Templars from Battle of Hattin, and others beheaded. According to next chapter after One Thousand Year Reign, the Saints come to dwell with Jesus in New Jerusalem, all of them (Revelation 21:1-7, 22-27).

I am glad to know someone who is aware of the Shepherding Movement. It destroyed my dad (moment of vulnerability). You no the verse, "Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly." (James 3:1). I think such a verse is good warning to leaders. I think a discipleship thread and discussion would be great. Let me know if there is one, or you are starting one. Fidei

"Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." (Genesis 1:26) "And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." (Genesis 3:22) "I am writing to God’s chosen people who are living as foreigners in the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia.[a]2 God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy. As a result, you have obeyed him and have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 1:1-2). "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." (Matthew 28:19) "And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." (Matthew 3:17) "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." (John 1:14) "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1) "When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father--the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father--he will testify about me." (John 15:26) "I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit." (John 15:1-2) "Father, glorify your name!" Then a voice came from heaven, "I have glorified it, and will glorify it again." (John 12:28) "Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God;[a] believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?[b] 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. 4 And you know the way to where I am going.”[c] 5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also.[d] From now on you do know him and have seen him.” (John 14:1-7) "After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.“I have revealed you[a] to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of[b] your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by[c] that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.“I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them by[d] the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me." (John 17:1-23) "“Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. 28 Father, glorify your name!” (John 12:27) "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." (Colossians 2:9) "For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ." (Colossians 1:19) "Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation, 16 for through him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see— such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him. 17 He existed before anything else, and he holds all creation together." (Colossians 1:15-17) "You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. 6 Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. 7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges[b]; he took the humble position of a slave[c] and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form,[d] 8 he humbled himself in obedience to God and died a criminal’s death on a cross. 9 Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor and gave him the name above all other names, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue declare that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:5-11) "Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied.” 9 Jesus replied, “Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don’t know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words I speak are not my own, but my Father who lives in me does his work through me. 11 Just believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Or at least believe because of the work you have seen me do." (John 14:8-11) "In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs. 5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father”[a]? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”[b]? 6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”[c] 7 In speaking of the angels he says, “He makes his angels spirits, and his servants flames of fire.”[d] 8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.”[e] 10 He also says, “In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. 11 They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. 12 You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.”[f] 13 To which of the angels did God ever say, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”[g]? 14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" (Hebrews 1:1-14) By the way Elohim as found in Genesis was always plural, until it was changed by a Rabbi during Rabbi Hillel's time to be singular, to avoid associations with Trinitarianism. During time of Maccabees, they split the Messiah in two persons, when the Messiah is One both Bridegroom/Suffering Servant and the King Melech Messiah; this is why the Pharisees and religious leaders were perplexed (they were looking for a king not a Lamb to bear sin, and Jesus is going to fulfill this when he comes as Messianic Kings of Kings in Revelation 19:11-16 to fulfill all the prophecies of David's Anointed for a thousand years Revelation 20:4-9). Then the Zealots in 70 A.D. removed many scriptures regarding the Messiah in order to stop feuding to fight the Romans, this created the Half Tankh (which omits Isaiah 53 and many chapters and verses about the Messiah). Then again in 12 Century Jews changed Judaism once more, they retranslated the Hebrew, removing allusions to Jesus in the Old Testament. Judaism has since evolved into another religion (this according to Rabbis) it includes three books the Torah (Five Books of Moses), the Talmud (Rabbinical Writings and commentaries), and the Midrash (Kabala writings, witchraft, how they use this book when the Torah condemns witchraft Exodus 22:18, Deuteronomy 18:9-12, Leviticus 19:26).

Discipleship is important, after all Jesus told us to make disciples (Matthew 28:19). My only concern is in 1970's there was discipleship movement called The Shepherding Movement, and it turned into a cult, where the leaders lorded over the members, even telling people who they could marry (white collar couldn't marry blue collar), disciples had to get approval to leave town and attend a holiday with family instead of the church and so. The leaders were Bob Mumpherd, Derek Prince, Paul Petrie, and others who left once it grew out of control. This movement based on good principles of discipleship turned into a totalitarian cult, and I know people who are still recovering from it. Something not often discussed is that disciples eventually graduate, within a year or three months the disciples were given power (Matthew 10:8) and He sent them out two by two to do the work of kingdom on their own (Mark 6:7-9).

I am literalist until its symbolic. In my opinion post modernism is one step away from Liberal Christianity, which treats the Bible as myths for moral instruction. I disagree adamantly, unequivocally, and vehemently with post modernsim and Liberal Christianity (both are lies). The Bible is God breathed (1 Tim 3:16) and is the true factual account of the Way, Truth, and Life (1 John 4:6).

You are most welcome. I enjoy sharing and learning from others. Fidei Defensor

I do not see Jude recommending Eastern Orthodoxy. I am not condemning Orthodox, I am questioning their theology, doxology, Christology, and more because it doesn't align with Scriptura. They are a Prima Scriptura church (Scripture and Tradition equal, Scripture is tradition) and this concerns me because Jesus said, "Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God," (Mark 7:7), "They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules," (Matthew 15:9), and Orthodoxy promotes asceticism which is denounced by Paul, "These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh." (Colossians 2:23 ESV).

Your thread title is Postmodernism in a nutshell, "Postmodernism, everyone has their prespective, everyone's prespective is right, everyone's perspective is wrong, everyone is right, everyone is wrong." This is antithesis and antithetical to what we Christians believe which is absolutism, there is right way and wrong way, God and the devil, good and evil, the Gospel and Damnation. As Christians we believe in absolutes, "Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me," (John 14:6), "I am the gate. If anyone enters through Me, he will be saved. He will come in and go out and find pasture," (John 10:9), "For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day," (John 6:40), "then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 1Jesus is the stone you builders rejected which has become the cornerstone, Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved," (Acts 4:10-12), "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God," (John 3:16-19), "Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire," (Revelation 20:15), "46 If the master returns and finds that the servant has done a good job, there will be a reward. 47 I tell you the truth, the master will put that servant in charge of all he owns. 48 But what if the servant is evil and thinks, ‘My master won’t be back for a while,’ 49 and he begins beating the other servants, partying, and getting drunk? 50 The master will return unannounced and unexpected, 51 and he will cut the servant to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth," (Matthew 24:46-51), and "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,[a] you did it to me.’41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:31-46). Answer Jesus is Right because He's God (Colossians 2:9, Titus 2:13, John 1:3, John 10:30, John 17:20-23, Colossians 1:16, Colossians 1:18), and Scripture is Right because its God Breathed (1 Timothy 3:16).

Hello Marilyn, I am pleased to make your acquaintance. Interesting notion. A close relative of mine noticed that we are water based creation, that the Lord made us to run on water (6 days without water you die), but noticed that her friend who was dying from cancer was refusing water. Perplexed, my relative asked the Lord, "Why is she refusing water Lord?" To which the Lord responded, "Your new bodies will not run on water, they will run on a different element, my fire." This is interesting because we are told our new bodies will be different, "Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is," (1 John 3:2), ""I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire," (Matthew 3:11), and " And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place[a] of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away. And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” 6 And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end," (Revelation 21:3-6), and "And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. 23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, 25 and its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there. 26 They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations. 27 But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life." (Revelation 21:22-27). I see those rays you are talking about, the light and what the Lord was calling fire to my relative, a light that is fire that did not burn the Burning bushes leaves (Exodus 3:1-17).

I think there is no literal sea either. The only other possibility is the tense of word is temporary, "there was no more sea," as in continuing a sentence "the heavens and earth passed way, the sea passed away too," oppose to this being an absolute statement that "the sea no longer existed, and will never exist again." Its hard to tell by the general consensus of Bible translations.

Indeed. I actually have been to heaven in what Paul describes as the Third Heaven, "I must go on boasting. Though there is nothing to be gained by it, I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. 3 And I know that this man was caught up into paradise—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4 and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter." (2 Corinthians 12:1-4). I can tell you, that the paintings, movies, and ideas people have are but shadows and glass dimly, "Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely." (1 Corinthians 13:12).

Amen. I think Paul if he used our vernacular would separate it into "judge" as "its necessary to judge those in church" as Jesus talking about "telling the tree by the fruit," (Matthew 7:15-20), i.e. fruit checking. We need to check the fruit (judge) those in church if we are going to have them operate in gift (office) of apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher, evangelist, elder (bishop), and deacon (Ephesians 4:11, 1 Timothy 3, Acts 6:3) in a public setting. While the other use of word judge, "don not judge a brother" would fall into "do not criticize and severely judge a person because you do not know their motives, past, and hurts," or "hurt people hurt people."

That is probably a better place for it, since we discussing the End of the Ocean and the End of Days.

Well the truth is, no matter how much we love the sea, we aren't made to live in it or explore it outside of technological advances. We need Oxygen, so the Sea would have always been left mysterious and undiscovered had man not invented submarines. Interesting fact, Global Warming is going to happen, the catch, you can't stop it, "Next, the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was given power to scorch the people with fire. They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed the name of God who had power over these plagues. They did not repent and give him glory." (Revelation 16:8-9).

Well said, "So don't make judgments about anyone ahead of time--before the Lord returns. For he will bring our darkest secrets to light and will reveal our private motives. Then God will give to each one whatever praise is due." (1 Corinthians 4:5). While it is necessary to judge things in Church, "Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life," (1 Corinthians 6:3) and "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?" (1 Corinthians 5:12). Paul however is using judge in these two verses as to judge behavior, not the motives, attitudes, and thoughts of a person; we can't know those, only God does.

My apologies for making it appear as your theory. That is a very interesting point, because the continents do look like they could connect like jigsaw puzzle and the Flood (which is recorded in all annuls of human history, even Chinese have it in their history) would be great explanation. It makes me wonder, if in Revelation the Lord abolishes and dissolves the Ocean, is this Him keeping his word to zenith, "establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth." (Genesis 9:11). Not that the Lord would need to flood anything in New Earth, with everyone being His followers and Saints. Just a thought, not doctrine I am exposing.

The truth that may offend my Catholic brothers (no offense intended) is Mary isn't special. What made her special is she gave birth to Jesus Christ via the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:26-38), and she said yes, "And Mary said, “Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her" (Luke 1:38). God could have picked any other woman, and it is possible Mary could have said "I can't handle this," (free will) But Mary puts things in perspective by these words, "How my spirit rejoices in God my Savior! For he took notice of his lowly servant girl, and from now on all generations will call me blessed." (Luke 1:47-48). Mary immediately rejoices in God, and mentions Him as Savior, meaning she isn't sinless, and secondly she notes that she is a lowly servant, nothing special. So the following line of "all generations will call me blessed" being a command doesn't work, because previous statements are how she needs Savior and rejoices in Him, and that she is lowly. If you follow Catholic Dogma that the "generations call me blessed" is a command, then you follow Mary was proud, and God resists the proud (), and it contradicts the spirit of worship and what she said prior to this "all generations will call me blessed."

My point was God made the sea, and the person I was responding to said a theory was the Flood created the oceans, but actually God made the sea before the Flood. It ties to Revelation, because God decides not to make a New Ocean and Sea, but removes it. I agree with another member that what awaits us in New Earth and New Jerusalem is greater than this world (Revealtion 21:1-53) and I argue that presence of Jesus and His love will be so encompassing that we won't notice anything missing, and there could be something better I've missed in Revelation.

Another fact most people don't know is that Muslims are commanded by their Prophet to do attacks after their holy months, the most famous holy month is Ramadan in the Summer, here is what their Prophet says, "When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. -(Surah 9:5). September 11th is after their holy month of Ramadan. It would be interesting to check and see if some of most famous attacks are after certain holy months and holidays of Islam. To Davida: Indeed, in Saudi Arabia during the day the women wear Hijab and Burkas, but at night they go clubbing and act like westerners. There is nothing in Quran that says a radical can't do sinful things and then commit Jihad Akbar Suicide to receive salvation, as you put it absolution of all sin.

What debunks the sea of humanity is that afterwards it says, "The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it," (Revelation 21:24) and the sea was created by God and filled with fish, "And that is what happened. God made this space to separate the waters of the earth from the waters of the heavens," (Genesis 1:7) and "So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good." (Genesis 1:21).

I get dogmatic too, I call it Prophetic (think Jeremiah and John the Baptist).

Indeed, and the verses that are used to venerate Mary actual tell that she needs a savior, "How my spirit rejoices in God my Savior!" (Luke 1:47). She says she needs Savior by saying she delights in God her savior. The next verse includes the Catholic dogma, "and all generations will call me blessed." (verse 48). Actually this isn't a command, it is a statement in jubilation, a matter of fact, because the blessing is Jesus, not Mary. This happens elsewhere, "And truly, I say to you, wherever the gospel is proclaimed in the whole world, what she (woman who anoints Jesus) has done will be told in memory of her.” (Mark 14:9). In addition the perpetual virginity of Mary falls apart in this verse, "When Joseph woke up, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and embraced Mary as his wife, But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus." (Matthew 1:25). The fruit of Mary and Joseph's marriage are four boys and sisters, "Then they scoffed, "He's just a carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon. And his sisters live right here among us." They were deeply offended and refused to believe in him." (Mark 6:3).

I was surprised reading history that on September 11th, 1585 the Ottoman Turks (Muslims) were defeated at the Battle of Malta. The victory was miraculous, with the Christian forces being 6,100 total versus 15,000-40,000 Ottoman Turks. I am wondering if then the attacks on September 11th, 2001 was specifically chosen by the Radicals to send a message to Christendom. Another bizarre thing is that the Quranic verse that promises salvation to Mujahideen (holy warriors) who die in Jihad Akbar (holy war) is Surah 9:111. Granted there is an extra one, but still this is all very interesting. Although if you take 9:111 and compare the date numbers: 9/11/01 its pretty creepy. I know, don't worry I am not saying its a major sign, just quite interesting.