Charlie744

For what it is worth.... If we assume it was 4000 years until Christ then we should have another 2000 years until the end of the 6th day. Meaning, we are very close. The 4th and final Great Jubilee begain in 457 BC and was to end 490 years later or exactly at the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy. At that time, the Messiah was supposed to arrive and we would be with Him. Unfortunately, He was crucified in the "midst of the last week of the prohecy." Meaning, the final Great Jubilee cycle reached only 486.5 of the 490 years required for its fulfillment. Thus, the counting of the 4th Great Jubilee cycle stopped. The Jew, having rejecting and crucifying their Messiah were no longer in "good standing" (not the right term but you get the meaning), with their God. Consequently, and it was part of His plan, ther would be some 2000 years when it would be termed "the time of the Gentiles." At the completion of this time, only God knows, there will be another 3.5 years when God will remove the blindness from the eyes of His people (another Damascus experience at the corporate level this time), and they will go out into the world preaching Jesus and the Word of God .... this will complete the 4th Great Jubilee cycle and bringt in the Messiah. This will take place on Trumpets, and He will fulfill the fall feast days. Another way to look at this ... and this is not to go off topic and discuss this interpretation...(but I have already done so), but there was 1500 years since Moses was given the Law on Mt. Sinai. In Daniel 7:25, you have the famous "time, times and 1/2 time" formula that everyone has an opinion on what it refers to.... But it specifically refers to the giving of the Law. For a "time, times and 1/2 time" the Law will be in the hands of the little horn. He will not have had it is his possession for that amount of time, only he will have it when the end of this period comes. So, times = 1000 years. Consequently, it is 1000, 2000, plus 500 and then the Messiah. God's laws, the 10 commmandments will be in the hands of mankind for 3500 years - 1500 of which are in direct possession by the little horn (papacy), and then the end. Beginning to Moses 1500 years, plus 3500 years since Moses = 6000 total years and this is the end of the 6th day. The Lord will return and He will take with Him those who accepted Him as their Lord and Savor for 1000 years - the millenium. That will end with 7000 years and a new beginning - the 8th day.

Jasper- Holiness, purity. Ruby- Justice

For what it is worth.... Here is a cut out from the commentary for chapter 8: Daniel 8:9 9And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the Glorious land. Daniel also provides insight into the directional movements of each kingdom during its conquests. The narrative outlines that while the Medes-Persians would advance westward, the kingdom of Greece would expand eastward. Notably, despite the historical conquests of pagan Rome spanning across various regions, the text doesn't mention them. However, in verse 9, Daniel does provide the directions of the compass that the "little horn" would traverse in its conquests of peoples, nations, and languages. This intricate detailing underscores Daniel's prophetic vision's focus on the spiritual realm and the unfolding of divine purposes rather than merely chronicling historical events. Each symbol and direction serves to convey deeper spiritual truths and insights into the nature of earthly powers and their eventual destinies. In Chapter 7, God employs a series of specific predatory animals to illustrate their aggressive nature towards humanity, symbolizing the manner in which they would conquer their adversaries. Each animal is carefully chosen to represent one of the four kingdoms identified in Chapter 2, ensuring their distinctiveness while maintaining continuity between the two chapters. Now, as the narrative progresses to Chapter 8, God shifts the focus to the prominent powers or horns that will emerge. However, these horns are not presented in isolation. They are accompanied by three additional themes, strategically introduced to eliminate any ambiguity regarding their identity and their correlation to the kingdoms depicted in Chapters 2 and 7. This deliberate approach serves to reinforce the interconnectedness of the prophetic visions and to provide clarity on the unfolding divine plan. In Chapter 8, even though Babylon is not explicitly mentioned, its role as the first kingdom to be conquered by the two-horned ram (Medes-Persians) is clearly understood. As the prophetic vision progresses, the focus shifts to the three subsequent kingdoms, each defined not only by their horns—symbols of power—but also by their directional movements, the nature of their influence, and their role within God's overarching plan of salvation. These four identifying factors serve to clarify the connection between the little horn in Chapter 7 and the one depicted here in Chapter 8. By maintaining the boundaries and structural integrity established in Chapters 2 and 7, Daniel's vision weaves together historical and spiritual realities in a way that both solidifies the identity of these kingdoms and reveals God's divine hand guiding human history. The directional movements of the Medes-Persians advancing westward and the Greeks expanding eastward reinforce the prophetic precision of the vision. However, unlike in previous chapters, pagan Rome is not directly mentioned in Chapter 8. Instead, the focus is placed entirely on the little horn, which emerges after the fall of pagan Rome. Daniel further distinguishes the little horn by describing its conquests toward the south, east, and the Glorious Land. The inclusion of the Glorious Land sets this power apart from the other kingdoms, emphasizing its unique nature and reach. Notably, this is the only horn that is described as moving not just horizontally across earthly territories, but also vertically, signifying an audacious challenge to both earthly and heavenly realms. The phrase "Glorious Land" carries deep spiritual significance. Many assume it refers to physical Israel, Jerusalem, or an attack on God's people. However, by the time the little horn rises to full power, Jerusalem had already been destroyed, and its people scattered among foreign nations. If the Glorious Land merely referred to Jerusalem, then it would have already been captured by the southward and eastward expansions mentioned in verse 9. Instead, the Glorious Land symbolizes heaven itself—the ultimate target of the little horn’s ambitions. This interpretation highlights the spiritual nature of the conflict, reinforcing that this is not just a struggle for territory and political power, but a war against God’s truth and sovereignty. The little horn’s vertical movement signifies its direct challenge against heaven, revealing a power that seeks not only to control the earth but also to usurp divine authority. Through these prophetic details, God unveils a greater reality—that human history is not merely a series of earthly struggles, but a spiritual battle between truth and deception, light and darkness, God's kingdom and the forces that oppose it. The little horn of the fourth kingdom emerges as a relentless and malevolent force, directly opposing everything that aligns with God’s will. Unlike the kingdoms before it, which were defined by military conquest and political rule, this horn takes on an entirely different character, one that is both spiritually oppressive and hostile toward the divine. It is not merely another earthly kingdom, but a power that continues its assault on truth until the second coming of the Messiah. This wicked force will persist in its rebellion, working to distort, corrupt, and oppress, until it is finally destroyed by divine intervention—without human hands. The imagery of the "four winds of heaven" further reveals the expansive nature of the little horn’s reach. While the four notable ones—the Greek generals who emerged from Alexander’s divided kingdom—spread toward the four winds, they do not cross into the domain of the fourth kingdom. Their movements are limited to the third kingdom of Greece. The little horn does not arise from Greece, nor is it connected to these generals in any way. Instead, it emerges after the division of the fourth kingdom—pagan Rome. It rises from the mingling of pottery clay, common clay, and iron, subtly attaching itself to the ten toes or ten horns of the fourth beast. At first, this little horn holds no great power, but over time, it accumulates influence, taking centuries to fully develop. It slowly rises among the ten horns, eventually becoming the dominant force atop the fourth beast kingdom of Papal Rome. This methodical and insidious rise to power is key to understanding its nature. Unlike previous kingdoms that conquered through military campaigns, this horn manipulates, distorts, and redefines religious authority, using deception rather than force. By the time it reaches its full power, it has transformed the very nature of worship, governance, and religious doctrine, presenting itself as the sole voice of divine truth on earth. Contrary to some interpretations, verses 8 and 9 do not speak of Antiochus Epiphanes. The "four notable ones" refer to the four generals under Alexander, yet they are never called "horns." Instead, Daniel clearly identifies them as "notable ones," indicating their importance but not their alignment with the same prophetic structure as the horned kingdoms. Moreover, Antiochus Epiphanes does not meet the prophetic requirements of a horn. While he was a ruthless tyrant, his reign was short-lived and insignificant in the grand scope of world history. The second and third horned kingdoms—Medes-Persians and Greece—were led by rulers like Darius, Cyrus, and Alexander, men who founded empires, reshaped the world, and established lasting legacies. By contrast, Antiochus Epiphanes never held such power, nor did his influence extend beyond a limited regional conflict. His historical role is far too minor to fit within the prophetic framework of Daniel’s vision. This little horn is something far greater and more insidious. It is not a single king, but a system of power that grows within the fourth beast kingdom. It will reshape worship, redefine truth, and claim divine authority, waging spiritual warfare against God’s saints. It persecutes the faithful, corrupts God’s Word, and stands in direct defiance of the Most High. Unlike previous empires that ruled with armies and kings, this horn rules with doctrine, decree, and religious control—a force that endures for centuries, surpassing all who came before it. In verse 4, Daniel observes the two-horned ram, representing the Medes and Persians, becoming great. This signifies a notable rise to power and prominence. Verse 8 describes the one-horned goat, symbolizing Greece under Alexander the Great, growing very great. Here, we witness an even more substantial expansion of power and dominance. However, it's in verse 9 that the little horn emerges with unparalleled grandeur. Described as becoming exceedingly great, this horn represents a level of power and influence far surpassing its predecessors. The magnitude of its rise suggests a force of extraordinary significance, one that commands attention and warrants careful consideration. Indeed, when comparing the historical context, figures like Antiochus Epiphanes fall short of embodying the immense power and influence attributed to the little horn in Daniel's prophecy. The differences between the prophecy and historical events highlight the symbolic and prophetic nature of Daniel's vision. This invites us to think more deeply about the spiritual messages it aims to share. The delineation of each kingdom's God-given mission within His plan of salvation adds another layer of significance to the prophetic narrative in Daniel. Each kingdom is entrusted with a specific role that contributes to the unfolding divine purposes. Babylon's mission is characterized by its conquest of the Assyrians and its establishment as a safe haven for the Jews during their seventy-year period of punishment. Through its reign, Babylon provides a refuge for the Jewish people, offering them protection and stability during a tumultuous period of exile. The Medes-Persians, in their conquest of Babylon, facilitate the return of the Jews to Jerusalem. Their reign marks a pivotal moment in Jewish history, as it allows for the rebuilding and restoration of the city, the land, the walls, the Temple, and their way of life. Under their rule, the Jewish people are granted the opportunity to reclaim their homeland and revitalize their cultural and religious practices. Greece, viewed as instrumental in divine plans, is tasked with overcoming the Medes-Persians and rectifying the mistreatment suffered by the Jewish people before their Babylonian exile. Through their military might, Greece acts as a means for the liberation and empowerment of the Jewish community, seeking to right past wrongs and contribute to the fulfillment of God's ultimate plan for salvation. This depiction highlights the complex relationship between human actions and divine guidance, showing how historical events play a significant role in fulfilling God's plans on earth. The four Greek generals who succeeded Alexander the Great were not among the four kingdoms foretold in Daniel's prophecy, nor were they assigned a specific part or mission within God's plan of salvation. Their historical roles, while significant in shaping the Hellenistic world, do not carry the same prophetic weight as the kingdoms outlined in Daniel's vision. Contrastingly, pagan Rome, as well as its successor, Papal Rome, and the little horn, play distinctive and pivotal roles within the divine plan. The little horn, emerging from pagan Rome after the time of the cross, stands as a formidable adversary against everything aligned with God—His people, His saints, and even God Himself. This horn's actions include appropriating God's church, asserting claims of divinity, and perpetrating various forms of opposition to divine truth. As prophesied, the reign of the little horn extends until the culmination of time, concluding in its ultimate destruction without human intervention. Following the crucifixion, the early Jewish/Christian church experienced both remarkable growth and profound persecution. The period spanning the 300 years after the cross was marked by upheaval rather than stability, with the fledgling movement facing significant challenges. Amidst this growth, four major centers of Gentile/Christian activity emerged: Rome, Antioch, Alexandria, and Jerusalem. Each of these centers proclaimed the Word of God and the Messiah, Jesus, yet they each had their own powerful bishops who were also contending for power and authority within the powerful Christian community. Confusion, conflict, and tumult characterized this era as factions within the church competed for dominance. Internal struggles, power struggles, and attempts at deception to gain control and authority were prevalent. From among these centers emerged the figure of the bishop of Rome, who would ascend to the leadership within the church. He would come to be known as the Pope, head of the papacy and the little horn. The little horn's emergence from one of these turbulent centers underscores the context of turmoil and upheaval from which it arises. And should you have missed the connection, the little horn would come out of one of these four winds of turmoil, conflict, and troublesome times; he is the one who will come out of either Rome, Antioch, Alexander, or Jerusalem in the latter part of their kingdom.

Very kind of you to say that! God bless.

For what it is worth..... this is a carve out from my recent commentary (still in progress) for Revelation. Revelation 13:18 18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666. This verse serves as both a warning and a challenge, calling for deep spiritual discernment. The number 666 carries immense symbolic meaning, pointing to the beast’s counterfeit system and its attempt to subvert God’s authority. By examining its biblical, historical, and spiritual significance, we can uncover its deeper message and implications for humanity. The verse begins with a call to wisdom: "Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast." This phrase signals that the meaning of 666 is not immediately obvious; it requires spiritual insight and careful reflection, guided by the Holy Spirit. Wisdom in Scripture is often associated with reverence for God and obedience to His Word (Proverbs 9:10). Here, the wisdom called for is a discernment of spiritual truths, distinguishing God’s kingdom from the counterfeit system established by the beast. The text identifies 666 as "the number of a man," emphasizing the human-centered nature of the beast’s authority. This phrase draws attention to the imperfection and incompleteness of humanity apart from God. In Scripture, the number 6 often symbolizes human limitation, as man was created on the sixth day (Genesis 1:26-31). The repetition of 6 three times—666—intensifies this symbolism, representing the ultimate expression of human-centered rebellion against God. This rebellion is epitomized in the beast’s system, which elevates human authority and traditions above God’s sovereignty. The papacy, as the one sitting atop the sea beast, exemplifies this through its claims of divine authority, such as the title "Vicar of Christ" and the doctrine of papal infallibility. These claims position human leaders in a role meant only for Christ, fulfilling the blasphemous nature of the beast described in Revelation 13:1-6. The structure of 666 reveals the beast’s attempt to counterfeit the divine Trinity—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In this unholy trinity: 1. The Dragon (Satan) counterfeits the Father by giving power and authority to the sea beast (Revelation 13:2, 13:4). Just as the Father is the source of all divine authority, the dragon seeks to position himself as the ultimate ruler. 2. The Sea Beast (Papacy) counterfeits the Son by claiming to be the head of the Church and a mediator between God and humanity. Titles like "Vicar of Christ" mimic Christ’s role as Savior and Mediator, but with a focus on human authority. 3. The Earth Beast (Jesuits) counterfeits the Holy Spirit by promoting and enforcing the sea beast’s authority, performing signs and wonders to deceive humanity (Revelation 13:13-14). Just as the Holy Spirit glorifies Christ, the earth beast glorifies the papacy, spreading its influence worldwide. This interpretation reflects the same approach God uses throughout Revelation: dividing events, symbols, and systems into their many facets to reveal their depth and purpose. Just as He breaks out the 7 churches, 7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 bowls, and even the 4 horsemen into distinct parts to illustrate their completeness and diversity, here He breaks out the number 6, repeated threefold, to highlight the various levels of failure and rebellion inherent in the beast’s system. Each "6" in 666 signifies a specific failure. In addition to symbolizing the unholy trinity, 666 represents the beast’s practical methods of control and deception: 1. Individual Level (6): The mark associated with 666 (Revelation 13:16) demands personal allegiance in thought (forehead) and action (hand). Individuals are compelled to align their beliefs and deeds with the beast’s counterfeit system, replacing devotion to God with submission to human authority. 2. Institutional Level (60): The beast establishes societal structures, such as Sunday worship, indulgences, and sacramental rituals, to enforce conformity. These practices supplant God’s commandments with human traditions, creating a system of control. 3. Universal Level (600): The beast’s influence extends globally, uniting nations under its counterfeit gospel. The Vatican’s historical role as a global religious and political power illustrates this level of control. Also, in Greek, 666 is written as χξς (chi, xi, stigma). The combination of these letters may reinforces the threefold failure of humanity (individual, societal, and global) and the imperfection of the beast’s system. · Chi (600): Symbolically, the number 600 may represent global or universal systems of rebellion. It reflects a large-scale operation, such as an empire or ideology, that seeks to dominate humanity. In Revelation, this could point to the overarching systemic nature of evil that spans generations and seeks to impose control over all aspects of life, opposing God's authority. · Xi (60): The number 60 often points to institutional structures or societal conformity. This could represent the tools and systems the beast uses to enforce its power and authority—whether religious, political, or economic institutions designed to replace God's truth with human-centered ideologies. It’s the level at which the beast builds its influence through cultural and societal norms. · Stigma (6): The number 6 emphasizes the individual level of rebellion and imperfection. It symbolizes the personal allegiance and choices people make when aligning themselves with the beast instead of God. "Stigma" also has historical implications, as it can refer to a mark or branding, which aligns with the "mark of the beast" imagery in Revelation.

There are so many points of discussion within your response.... I think we might discuss one at a time. Daniel 2:41- from my commentary 41And whereas thou saw the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou saw the iron mixed with miry clay.. The fourth kingdom begins with pagan Rome (verse 40) and will continue in various forms until the end of time. This period encompasses part of the second-time bracket and the entirety of the third-time bracket within God's plan of salvation. The second-time bracket covers the seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy, which starts during the Medes-Persian Empire after the Jews return to Jerusalem (457 BC) and concludes 3.5 years after the cross, around 33/34 AD. The third and final time bracket begins after the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy and continues until the end times, culminating in the second coming of the Messiah. This final period includes the remaining 400 years of the pagan Roman Empire. In the late fifth century AD, pagan Rome transitions into Papal Rome, representing the divided form of the fourth kingdom. This transition signifies a shift in power and influence, from the unified pagan Rome to the fragmented Papal Rome, which continues to exert its influence throughout history until the end times. God has revealed a deliberate yet enigmatic method for understanding the events and transitions within the fourth kingdom of Rome, both before and after the stone strikes the feet. His use of symbolism in Daniel’s vision is intentional and structured, revealing profound truths that require careful interpretation. Rather than providing every step explicitly, God gives us key pieces of the puzzle, requiring us to actively engage with His Word to fully comprehend both the dream sequence and its interpretation. The dream sequence (Daniel 2:31-35) presents a broad prophetic vision, illustrating the material composition of pagan Rome before the cross. However, it does not immediately disclose the intricate shifts that follow, leaving much of the kingdom’s transformation veiled in mystery. To unravel this mystery, we must turn to the interpretation sequence (Daniel 2:41-45), where God provides detailed symbolic elements that clarify the kingdom’s evolution. A critical aspect of God’s prophetic structure is His deliberate use of iron and clay—not only to define the fourth kingdom’s composition but also to signal whether the prophecy refers to pagan Rome before or after the cross, or Papal Rome after the cross. By positioning iron or clay in a superior role, God marks which phase of the kingdom is being described. · Before the cross, iron dominates (Daniel 2:33), symbolizing pagan Rome’s military strength and control over God’s people (ceramic clay). · After the cross, the order reverses—clay takes precedence over iron (Daniel 2:41a), marking the rise of the Church within the empire and its eventual transition into Papal Rome. These shifts in placement serve as prophetic indicators, illustrating how the fourth kingdom evolves from a purely political and military empire into a religious-political system that exerts power in a new way. It should also be mentioned that these transitions take place over the next 500 years after the cross. Further, during this transition period, we will see pagan Rome move from a purely Imperial Empire to one that will embrace Christianity at the time of Constantine and then end with Papal Rome in power. By connecting the interpretation sequence with the dream sequence, we uncover hidden relationships, structural shifts, and defining characteristics that reveal how pagan Rome before the cross transitions into Papal Rome after the cross. God’s use of iron and clay, and His purposeful positioning of each element, acts as a prophetic roadmap, guiding us through the transformation of the fourth kingdom. This method requires diligent examination, as each symbolic detail functions as a puzzle piece, revealing the interplay of political, religious, and spiritual transformations within Rome. The vision in Daniel 2 is not merely a historical forecast—it is a layered, symbolic revelation, requiring us to connect the dream and interpretation sequences to fully grasp God’s prophetic blueprint. Before examining Daniel 2:41-45, it is essential to recognize that God’s revelation is structured with purpose. His symbolism unveils truth, and the interpretation sequence is more than an explanation. By following this deliberate and symbolic design, we gain a profound understanding of the fourth kingdom’s evolution and its role in prophetic history. The next few verses in Chapter 2 are quite complex and require careful interpretation. Verse 41 has four parts that require specific attention: 41a: "Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and iron," 41b: "The kingdom shall be divided," 41c: "Yet the strength of the iron shall be in it," 41d: "Just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic (miry) clay," These elements provide a framework for understanding the divided nature and enduring strength of the fourth kingdom. 41a and 41B In Daniel 2:33 of the dream sequence, the feet of the fourth kingdom are described as being partly iron and partly clay—in that order—but without any mention of the toes or the specific type of clay. At this stage, the feet represent pagan Rome before the Messiah arrives. Nebuchadnezzar, in his dream, sees the feet as a mixture of iron and clay, but the toes remain hidden from his view. Later, in Daniel 2:41d, Daniel clarifies that the clay within the feet is ceramic clay, a hardened and brittle material. This indicates that, to Nebuchadnezzar, the feet would have appeared as a solid structure of iron and hardened clay, completely encasing or hiding the ten toes that will later be revealed in Daniel 7. The Messiah, represented by the stone cut without hands in Daniel 2:34, strikes these feet, breaking apart the iron and the ceramic clay. This impact does not destroy the entire image, but rather, it begins a symbolic process of division and separation within the fourth kingdom of Rome. The iron represents the Roman imperial power, and the ceramic clay symbolizes the Jews living under Roman rule. When the stone strikes, it breaks the hardened ceramic clay from the iron, allowing the Lord—the Potter—to take from it pieces of clay that He will shape and mold (Potter’s clay) as He desires. This potter’s clay refers to those Jews who accept Jesus as their Messiah and are transformed into the first followers of the Gospel. These faithful ones, shaped by God’s hand, become the foundation of the early Church, which then expands to include millions of Gentiles. The act of breaking apart the ceramic clay from the iron symbolizes the division (divided kingdom) within Rome—not its immediate destruction. Jesus Himself spoke of this purpose in Matthew 10:34, declaring that He had come to bring a sword, not peace, meaning His arrival would divide those who accepted Him from those who rejected Him. A key detail emerges in Daniel 2:41a, where the order of the iron and the clay is reversed. Instead of being described as iron and clay, it is now clay and iron—signaling that the potter’s clay (believing Jews and later Gentiles) has taken a superior position to that of the iron within the Roman world. This shift marks the beginning of the Jewish-Christian movement, a growing force within the fourth kingdom that does not destroy Rome but transforms it from within. The division caused by Christ's coming does not immediately bring the empire to an end; instead, it sets into motion a movement that will reshape the spiritual landscape of the world. The ceramic clay, on the other hand, represents those Jews who remain hardened in their rejection of Jesus. While some are molded into potter’s clay, ready for the Lord’s work, others remain unyielding, keeping with their pre-cross Jewish faith within the iron kingdom of Rome. The cross is the defining event that separates these two groups, causing the fourth kingdom to be divided—just as Daniel prophesied in Daniel 2:41. Thus, the stone’s strike is not a moment of destruction, but of separation. It is the act that breaks apart the elements within the fourth kingdom, distinguishing between those who will carry forward God’s plan of salvation and those who will remain part of a crumbling empire. The final destruction of all earthly kingdoms, including Rome, does not come until Daniel 2:35, at Christ’s second coming. But Daniel 2:34 marks the pivotal moment when the fourth kingdom is spiritually divided—when the Messiah’s arrival changes the course of history forever.

The metal man image given to Nebuchadnezzar serves as God's blueprint for His plan of salvation, not only for the Jews being restored to Jerusalem but also for all of mankind. God has given us the 4 and only 4 kingdoms that will come out of the sea. Certainly there are thousands of nations and kingdoms that will come after these 4 and there were many others during their time, but God is presenting us with His plan of salvation and He is going to include those kingdoms, actors and events that He deems it necessary to present His plan / prophecies, messages. Most folks attempt to interpret Daniel by having it sit on the left side of the table with our history books on the right side of the table. They go back and forth between the verses in Daniel and immediately look to find the historical equivalent in our flawed history books. God is not interested in recounting our historical events. He has decided to include and exclude those actors, kings, kingdoms, events that serve His purpose in the Book of Daniel. He has kept all of them to a minimum so we can concentrate on what He has put in front of us. We make a big mistake when we take out our history books... The book of Daniel was written for the Jews and God would ensure it was included in the Tanakh and available for them to interpret the coming of the Messiah in the first century. There would be no extra-biblical records or "history books" needed by the Jews to help interpret Daniel and the coming of the Messiah. Thus, these 4 kingdoms will be the only 4 kingdoms we need to consider until the time of the end. In the Dream Sequence of chapter 2 God reveals this 4 kingdom blueprint with all of its restrictions, guidlines, borders and boundaries, and actors for us to honor. This teaching method or way of presenting His plan is to provide us with the summary of events firs (the Dream sequence) and follow with the "Interpretation Sequence." These verses represent the "details" that must be placed within the "Dream Sequence." Meaning, they are not given t0 us in chronological order - and this has caused so much misinterpretation since these verses will certainly ot follow those attempts to match these verses in our history books. This method of presentation is also found in the later chapters of Daniel and i Revelation. The Dream Sequence of chapter 2 includes really only 6 elements - it provides us with the 4 and only 4 kingdoms that will be considered in all of Daniel as well as i Revelation. Then, it gives us the two events that will take place - the only two actions within the Dream Sequence. It is the first coming of the Messiah i verse 34 and His return i verse 35. These 6 elements represent the complete blueprint / structure from Babylon to His return. Everything within Daniel and Revelation takes place within the borders and boudaries of these 4 kingdoms. We are not to add to or take away from this blueprint. Verse 34 represents the "Stone," Jesus, coming in the first century. His plan is mot to come as a conquering king and destroy the Romans - as the Jews believed, but as a suffering servant who would divide. The Stone would strike the feet of the image - but mot the toes or another part of the image, and break into pieces the iron and clay elements only. He certainly did mot come to destroy the 4 kingdoms but establish His church on the earth. Symbolically, the 4th iron kingdom or pagan Rome was comprised of the iron legs as well as the iron feet (all one kingdom of Rome). However, His plan of restoration was two fold - to restore His people back from Babylon for His first coming as well as the greater plan to restore mankind back to the Garden. Within this symbolic 4th kingdom of pagan Rome He would present His people, the Jews within the feet of the image as clay - symbolically usig clay as a metaphor for mankind (but specifically, His people). They were shown within these Roman feet as they were a conquered and controlled people. The 10 toes are also highly symbolic as they too were to be found along side the "clay" and had a tremedous symbolic meaning - they were / are mot meant to represent 10 kingdoms or secular powers. But because they existed before the Stone struck the feet (cross) and they could not be identified anywhere i our history books, both the 10 toes as well as verse 34 were thrown far into the end times. They do not belong i the end times but exactly where they are to be found - they existed before and after the "Stone" (Messiah) symbolically struck the feet of the image (cross). The 10 toes represent God's 10 commandments that were also found symbolically encased or locked up with His people in the iron feet of pagan Rome. Jesus didn't come to war with Rome but would divide the clay and the iron components within the feet only. And He did not strike the toes - of course. This most important event i the history of mankind would divide time and His people so He could select those of the "clay" that would accept Him as their Messiah and go out and preach to the world the Good news throughout the Roman Empire. Thus, this ends the interpretation of the Dream Sequence - with the remaining verse 35 to be fulfilled at His return. Thus, ALL verses, actions, actors, events, etc., found in Daniel will take place within these Dream Sequence verses _ with the final event of verse still in the future

That was one heck of a terrific response! Thank you for taking the time and consideration you obviously spent on it. I will have to spend some time responding to this - hopefully this evening, but for now, I would simply ask that you might continue to keep an open mind regarding 2:34 as it relates to the Messiah’s first coming and 2:35 is His second coming. If you consider JUST the verses in the “Dream sequence” you might agree they present God’s plan from Babylon to His return. This is the big picture for all of the 12 chapters. Everything within Daniel AFTER this very brief and compacted summary will be found within these brief verses. So, we have the beginning time bracket at Babylon at 606 BC, and the ending time bracket at (soon) - 2:35. Therefore, ALL actors and events found within the prophecies in Daniel are within these 2 time brackets. The most important event and actor in OUR HISTORY is of course Jesus. And His first coming did not come as the Jews expected- a conquering king who would save His people and destroy the Romans- He did not come to destroy but to divide. Thus, His people - symbolically presented as “Clay” subjugated within the feet of the Roman Empire would not be a military like event. He did come to save His people but in a very different way! Symbolically, He would strike the feet (only) and break apart (not destroy) the image (especially it is noted that pagan Rome continued for another 450 years or so. But this separation or breaking apart the two elements (this is also important because it would have said the entire feet or the entire image, etc., if 2:34 was meant to mean total destruction of the 4 kingdoms), into pieces. Why focus on these 2 elements only if the entire image is being destroyed? It is not meant to convey that although EVERYONE believes this. Only these 2 elements found only in the 4th kingdom were struck for the only purpose of symbolically separating His people from the Roman Empire. And of course this did not mean that this “striking” would destroy either of the two elements or the total image or the Jews as a people. What it did accomplish is to separate those pieces of clay (pottery clay) that would accept Him as their Messiah and preach the Good News to the Gentiles while those Jews who rejected Him (ceramic clay) - they would continue in their pre-cross faith. Later, we can discuss verses 2:41-45, which are only relevant to the cross- a before and after picture if you will. These 5 verses were unbelievably difficult to understand and they could only be interpreted with 2:34 representing the cross. I think I had to leave these 5 verses alone and move on to the rest of Daniel because they were impossible to unpack. I think after going through the later chapters and spending at least 5 months just on trying to interpret them did I realize that 2:34 HAD to mean the cross for them to make any sense. I don’t know your interpretations on these 5 verses … if in the meantime, perhaps you might send me your thoughts just on verse 2:41. Thanks so much for your response. Also, if you would like to receive an authors copy of my commentary on Daniel, (no charge at all), please send me a PM with your contact/ mailing information and I will process through Amazon immediately.

Very nice! It is clear it is going to be a pleasure discussing the book of Daniel with you. You certainly have a deep understanding for Daniel, you have definite convictions and yet you are also willing to consider other thoughts or interpretations that, I can assure you, have not yet been found in any of today's commentaries. But please feel free to question everything and offer your thoughts - pro or con or otherwise. I can see that you have already been more than able to consider the interpretations i provided in the previous post and have been quickly able to bring up very important questions that must be answered - but in later chapters of Daniel. But, that might hurt this process as it would prevent the slower movement of this discussion as it moves from chapter 2 to 7. The questions you ask, and will ask must be answered, but perhaps we can table them to when the prophecies address them in the later chapters. If they fail to connect or tie down those important questions then the interpretations will not stand..... but they do and will. Below is a cut/ past from my commentary on Daniel that disusses the "Dream Sequence" and the "interpretation sequence" verses in chapter 2 - however, this submission will only take them to verse 39. This might be a comfortable place for you to consider these interpretatons before moving on to the "detail" verses in 40-45 which will indeed address some of your questions... The Dream Sequence Daniel 2:31–36 31Thou, O king, saw, and behold a great image. This great, whose B was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible. 32This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, 33His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. 34Thou saw till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. 35Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.36This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king. Verses 31 to 36 in the Book of Daniel reveal a dream depicting a colossal and terrifying statue composed of four distinct parts: a head of gold, arms and chest of silver, belly and thighs of brass, legs of iron, and feet made of iron and clay. A stone, cut without human hands, strikes the statue's feet, breaking them apart. All commentators contend the entire statue—gold, silver, bronze, iron, and clay—is crushed and swept away by the wind, leaving no trace. The stone grows into a huge mountain that fills the whole world. Even if Nebuchadnezzar had remembered his dream, he likely would not have understood its significance, and his wise men probably couldn't have interpreted it either. Daniel tells us twice that Nebuchadnezzar "watched" as the image was revealed, from its head to the stone striking the feet. Each section of the image is presented without emphasis on one part over another. The dream doesn't provide any details or actions beyond the stone striking the feet. At this point, Daniel implies that Nebuchadnezzar didn't need to understand what it meant; he only needed to recognize the vision, as its interpretation would soon be given to him. This dream was predetermined, and it was created by someone much greater than Nebuchadnezzar, giving him a unique glimpse into the future. This alone should have humbled him and sparked a desire to know more about this God who could see the future. The dream sequence doesn't provide explicit details about the identities of the kingdoms, kings, or powers, nor does it specify the timing or purpose of the image. However, it clearly establishes four distinct sections of the statue, each represented by a different metal and corresponding to a specific body part. This continuity suggests a seamless progression through the four divisions, implying that the future is predetermined and should be observed rather than altered. Like Daniel and Nebuchadnezzar, we too face choices in our earthly journey. We should study the finished image, recognizing it as complete and perfect in its design, without attempting to modify or reinterpret its construction. The prophecies and interpretations in the Book of Daniel occur within these four divisions, making it essential to respect these boundaries. In Chapters 7 and 8, Daniel receives new symbols and images to reveal additional attributes and characteristics within each of the four divisions. These symbols enhance our understanding but must be applied within the framework of the dream sequence. Verses 34-35, which describe the stone striking the image’s feet, are particularly significant. Contemporary interpretations categorically hold that the stone striking the feet causes all four sections (kingdoms) to be broken into pieces simultaneously. The iron, clay, bronze, silver, and gold are crushed and thrown to the wind. Most scholars agree that the "stone" represents the Messiah. However, they also concur that this event, along with verse 35, happens at His second coming. In Luke 20:17-18, Jesus refers to Himself as the "stone the builders rejected,” indicating that He is the "cornerstone" mentioned in Psalm 118:22. Jesus tells His disciples that He will be rejected by His people and that those who fall on the stone will be broken. It would be difficult for this "stone" to be rejected if it destroyed the entire statue, unless it was an end time event – but it is not! Verse 34 represents the Messiah’s first arrival, where He would divide the fourth kingdom, not destroy the entire image. The dream sequence highlights two of the most significant events in human history: the coming of the Messiah—His first advent (verse 34) and His return (verse 35) at the end of time, when He will separate the sheep from the goats. Interpretations of verses 34 and 35 in Nebuchadnezzar's dream vary among scholars and theologians. Most see these verses as representing a single event associated with the return of Jesus. However, there is a separation of over 2000 years between these two events. The phrase "and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found" in verse 35 also suggests a true end-time event. In ancient Israel, the barley harvest typically occurred in April and May, followed by the wheat harvest in May and June. During the forty-nine days leading up to Pentecost, Israel experienced a climactic battle between easterly winds from the desert, which were dry, and westerly winds from the sea, which brought moisture, clouds, and rain. By Pentecost, the weather had stabilized, signaling the beginning of the harvest. The wheat was cut with a sickle, bound into sheaves, and transported to the threshing floor. The threshing floor was a flat, clean, hard, and smooth surface, crucial for the separation of the chaff from the grain. A large shovel or wooden fork with bent prongs was used to winnow the grain, allowing the wind to blow away the chaff. This process relied on an extremely hard surface to prevent dirt from mingling with the grain during threshing. The winnowing fork was essential, as it helped release the bulk of grain, straw, and chaff into the wind, which was especially effective in the strong evening breezes common during this season. Thus, the phrase in verse 35 refers to the end-time harvest and does not occur at the same time as the stone striking the feet in verse 34. The event in verse 34 represents the cross and defines whether the verses and their interpretations apply to the three previous kingdoms or the fourth and final kingdom of Rome (pagan or Papal). The four-sectioned image continues, but there is a significant change within the fourth kingdom. Pagan Rome, with legs of iron and feet of iron and clay, in that order, as well as the toes, will exist at the time of the Messiah and after the cross. Later, the fourth kingdom, in the form of Papal Rome, made of partly clay and partly iron, in that order, would continue for another 2000 years or so, both spiritually and physically. In verse 33, the feet are composed partly of iron and partly of clay, in that order. These two materials, although not properly joined together, are not separate in the image. In verse 34, the stone strikes the feet and breaks them into pieces. There are two important points here: After the stone strikes the image, there are now five separate materials, and the iron and clay are no longer mixed together. The purpose of the stone striking the image's feet was to separate or divide the iron from the clay, allowing God to select the potter’s clay from the common clay (later defined as ceramic clay). The striking of the feet divides the fourth and final kingdom, not destroy or crush it or the other kingdoms out of existence. Jesus came to divide, not to destroy. The materials—their make-up and order—are different before and after the cross. The verses in the interpretation sequence speak almost exclusively to events after the cross and before His second coming. Once the iron and clay in the feet are broken apart, God uses those separated materials as He predestined. The stone (Messiah) that strikes the feet completes His mission, fulfilling all His Father’s commands found in Daniel 9:24, and divides the fourth and final kingdom, revealing His plan of salvation for both Jew and Gentile. Verse 34 also represents God’s setting up His kingdom on earth spiritually, not physically. The final comment of the dream sequence refers to verse 33. Daniel mentions that the feet of the metal-man image are made of partly iron and partly clay, in that order. However, there is no mention of the toes. The toes will be discussed in the interpretation sequence, but they are purposefully left out of the dream sequence description. To Nebuchadnezzar, it may have seemed that the iron and clay had encased or largely covered any sign of individual toes, symbolizing pagan Rome's control over the internal structure and make-up of the feet and toes. Pagan Rome exercised complete control over every aspect of its conquered nations. The dream sequence didn't provide Nebuchadnezzar with details other than identifying four kingdoms, a stone striking the image's feet, and the stone becoming a great mountain. Without Daniel’s interpretation sequence, generating any meaningful interpretations or prophetic messages would be impossible. Daniel's interpretations, found in verses 37-45, require careful placement within the dream sequence. The timing of the stone striking the feet is crucial. Determining when or where the interpretation sequence verses should be placed, either before or after the cross, depends on understanding verses 34 and 35 correctly. The interpretation sequence Daniel 2:37–39 37Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. 38And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.39And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth. In verses 37–45, Daniel provides Nebuchadnezzar with the interpretation of the dream. Verses 37 to 39 cover the first three kingdoms, while verses 40 to 45 address the fourth and final kingdom of Rome. Unlike the dream sequence, which presents each of the four kingdoms equally, the interpretation sequence speaks of them in different ways, focusing on their unique roles within God’s plan of salvation. The dream sequence outlines the characteristics and boundaries of each kingdom, while the interpretation sequence explains how and why God would use those characteristics, features, and abilities in His plan. These interpretations are deeper and not immediately obvious. Daniel reveals individual characteristics and facts for each kingdom. The first kingdom is especially relevant to Nebuchadnezzar, with the interpretation highlighting several impressive gifts and blessings bestowed upon him. However, there is only one verse (39) that briefly mentions the two inner kingdoms represented by silver and bronze, covering both of their interpretations. The fourth kingdom is treated more extensively. Daniel provides prophetic information in no less than six verses (40–45), which require a deep and careful exploration to understand their meanings. These interpretations include details about the iron legs of the fourth kingdom, the iron and clay feet and toes, and the stone striking the feet, breaking them into pieces. Although more than 2,500 years have passed since God revealed His interpretations to Daniel, there is still no consensus on many of the prophetic messages within the twelve chapters of Daniel. This makes it crucial to recognize the importance of the Chapter 2 metal-man image and all the characteristics, constraints, boundaries, restrictions, and timing embedded within these symbols. These elements serve as His "blueprints" for all twelve chapters. Daniel’s interpretations of the first kingdom identify its king as Nebuchadnezzar. The king of the second kingdom is not mentioned in Chapter 2 but was identified by name almost 150 years earlier in the Book of Isaiah. The king of the third kingdom, Alexander, is described (though not by name) by Gabriel in Chapter 8. In the dream sequence, Daniel identifies all four metal types along with the stone that would strike the image. However, the metal type for the second kingdom is not mentioned in Daniel’s interpretation sequence. The head of gold represented the first of the four kingdoms mentioned in Daniel's interpretation. Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar that this referred to his reign. It is no coincidence that Daniel’s interpretations of Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar) were associated with the senses found in one’s head: the mind, ears, mouth, and eyes. This aligns with Nebuchadnezzar's strengths and how he ruled his kingdom and conducted his life. Every comment within verses 37 and 38 was tailored to Nebuchadnezzar’s personal receptors—he could almost see, hear, and taste the power and glory of Daniel’s words. They seemed to validate the strength of his mental and intellectual abilities. These compliments from Daniel’s God were likely music to his ears, and he may have focused primarily on those favorable words. However, it is notable that Daniel’s interpretations do not include anything related to the heart of Nebuchadnezzar. There is no mention of his compassion, empathy, or consideration for others. This aspect of his character would later influence his ability or inability to recognize and accept Daniel’s God as his own. Nebuchadnezzar was told he was the king of kings and had received his kingdom, power, strength, and glory from God above. He was to rule over the children of men, the beasts, and the birds of the world, as prophesied in Jeremiah 28:14: "For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: I have put a yoke of iron upon the neck of all these nations, that they may serve Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon; and they shall serve him; and I have given him the beasts of the field.” This must have been pleasing to his ears, reinforcing what he already knew about his power, title, and accomplishments. However, the most crucial part of Daniel's message was that the God of heaven had given him everything. These were not merely the fruits of his own works but gifts from God. Nebuchadnezzar struggled to recognize his role in God’s plan of salvation for the Jews. It would take a special visit from Daniel’s God in Chapter 4 for him to fully realize who had granted him everything. Despite this, Nebuchadnezzar was placed as the king of the most powerful kingdom at that time for a special purpose—not only for God to bring correction to His people but also to receive and protect them during their captivity. Babylon’s impenetrable defenses, with its multiple walls and towers, symbolized how God would keep His people safe during their seventy years in exile. Daniel, his three friends, and all the Jews in Babylon were never in jeopardy from outside forces. Through Nebuchadnezzar, God would also reveal His power, wisdom, might, and glory. God had bestowed upon Nebuchadnezzar all the gifts necessary to fulfill his role in His plan for Daniel and His people, providing him with ample opportunities to learn about and accept Daniel’s God. God visited Nebuchadnezzar in his dreams, but he struggled to fully comprehend Him. God revealed Himself in the furnace, but Nebuchadnezzar did not fully acknowledge or reach out to Him. God spoke to him through Daniel, but Nebuchadnezzar did not fully listen or obey. At each encounter, where Nebuchadnezzar was most comfortable, God met him, but each time He was not fully accepted. Babylon is one of two kingdoms in which Daniel identifies its king within the dream or interpretation sequences in Chapter 2. Although the second king is revealed symbolically as a stone that strikes the metal man image at its feet, both kings are acknowledged as having their position and authority granted by God. Both are referred to as "kings of kings" within their respective kingdoms, and both receive their power, strength, and glory from the God of heaven. While both were considered human and divine, only Jesus (the stone) could truly embody this sovereignty. It would have been challenging to convince Nebuchadnezzar that he was not divine, or at least as close as anyone could be. Despite these many similarities, their reigns would result in very different outcomes. One king would be humble, the other prideful. One would be harsh and punishing, while the other would be gentle and accept punishment on behalf of others. One would take credit for all his achievements, while the other would be obedient, worship the Creator, and give all glory to His Father. One would desire to rule the world and live forever, while the other would be willing to sacrifice His life so that others could live eternally. There are numerous parallels, yet the outcomes of their reigns would be markedly different. Though the kings of the silver and bronze kingdoms remain unnamed in Daniel’s Chapter 2 interpretation sequence, their existence is acknowledged in other prophetic writings. In verse 39, Daniel informs Nebuchadnezzar that another kingdom will follow his, but it will be inferior. Daniel offers only these few words regarding the second kingdom. There is no elaborate praise, acknowledgment of accomplishments, or impressive characteristics attributed to this kingdom as with the first. Daniel does not mention or allude to the type of metal representing this kingdom or the identity of its king. He simply informs Nebuchadnezzar that a second, inferior kingdom will arise. In the same verse (39), Daniel informs Nebuchadnezzar of the coming of a third kingdom that will dominate the earth. Once again, the king’s identity remains unspecified, but unlike the second kingdom, Daniel does provide the type of metal associated with this third kingdom—it will be of bronze or brass. However, Daniel’s interpretation is brief, mentioning only that this kingdom will exercise dominion over the earth. Because he discloses the type of metal, it suggests that this dominion will be achieved through military strength. In Daniel's interpretation sequence for the second kingdom, there is no mention of Cyrus, the Persian kingdom, or the silver metal. However, Cyrus is specifically identified in the Book of Isaiah, where it is prophesied that he would issue a decree allowing the Jews to return to Jerusalem. This prophecy was written long before the birth of either Daniel or Cyrus, during a time when the rise of the Persian Empire was not yet evident. If Daniel were written at a later date, as some suggest (in the second century BC) by an unidentified author, it would be reasonable to expect mention of Cyrus's name and the Medes-Persian kingdom in Chapter 2's interpretation sequence. It seems improbable that a later author would provide such scant attention to these kingdoms, especially considering the wealth of historical documentation available for the preceding 200 years or so. While Cyrus may not have achieved conquests on the scale of Nebuchadnezzar or undertaken grand construction projects like those in Babylon, he was a formidable military leader who expanded his kingdom and accomplished much in non-military endeavors. Even if a writer from the second century BC omitted mention of Cyrus's well-documented achievements, they could have easily incorporated details about the military exploits and achievements of other significant Persian rulers. In Daniel's depiction of the second kingdom, Xerxes would be the final Persian ruler to ascend the throne, offering ample material for discussion regarding historical events, wars, and conflicts. When interpreting the Book of Daniel, it's essential to understand that these verses should not be approached as a mere recounting of historical events. Rather, they are intended to convey prophetic messages from God. He has included everything necessary within the Tanakh and the Book of Daniel for His people to read, study, and interpret these prophecies. Thus, His Word, including these prophecies, is complete in all respects prior to His coming in the early first century. The Jews had everything they needed in the finished Tanakh before His arrival, and there were no asterisks added to suggest that these prophecies needed verification through historical records. Concerning the first kingdom, God revealed all the essential resources, characteristics, and blessings required for the king and kingdom to fulfill God’s mission concerning the Jews. Nebuchadnezzar, serving as the mighty hand of God, removed the Assyrians from the earth. In relative terms, he provided Daniel and the Jews with a secure haven while they endured God’s punishment for the next seventy years. However, when it comes to the second kingdom, God does not specify any blessings or gifts bestowed upon them. The particular mission of the second kingdom would be to bring an end to the Jews’ captivity in Babylon by permitting their return to Jerusalem. But achieving such an outcome might require more than a simple alignment of circumstances. The Jews were held in a foreign land for seventy years, likely with their identity unknown to any other nation outside the walls of Babylon. Even if the Medes-Persians were aware of them, they wouldn't have held any significance, as conquerors viewed people as mere possessions, regardless of their origin. While Cyrus commanded a considerable and formidable army, it would be unreasonable to expect Babylon, perhaps the most powerful force in the world, ensconced behind the most impregnable fortifications ever constructed, to fall without resistance. Typically, such a conquest would entail a prolonged and successful military campaign. However, Babylon's downfall would not be brought about by sheer military force, hence there was no mention of a specific type of metal (silver) in Daniel’s interpretation of the second kingdom. The other aspect mentioned in the interpretation sequence for the second kingdom was its inferiority compared to Babylon. This is indeed an unusual characterization for a nation poised to conquer such a formidable kingdom, sheltered behind seemingly impregnable defenses. When we delve into God’s Word, the unmistakable author is none other than Daniel’s God. For the second kingdom, God's mission did not necessitate the attributes of the first kingdom, nor did it require a destructive and protracted war resulting in widespread devastation. Instead, God orchestrated events to install Cyrus into power, who would facilitate the return of His people to Jerusalem. This was accomplished through Daniel revealing Cyrus's name in Scripture, written over 150 years prior. Upon seeing his name in the Jewish Scriptures, Cyrus recognized Daniel’s God as the supreme deity and felt compelled to issue a decree allowing the Jews to return to Jerusalem. God purposefully omitted Cyrus's name from the interpretations given to Nebuchadnezzar, choosing instead to conceal it in plain sight within His Scriptures, notably in Isaiah 44 and 45. Had Daniel disclosed Cyrus's name to Nebuchadnezzar, it's conceivable that Nebuchadnezzar would have perceived Cyrus as a threat to his reign and taken measures to thwart him. But God had further plans for the second kingdom, orchestrating events that could only stem from His divine wisdom. The statement in the interpretation sequence indicating the second kingdom's inferiority serves a specific purpose. It foreshadows the transition of power to Darius, who would succeed Belshazzar as king of Babylon. While modern historians and post-Alexander era historicists may harbor doubts about Darius's existence, according to Daniel, Cyrus would indeed transfer rulership to Darius immediately after Babylon's conquest. Darius's rule over the inferior portion of the Medes-Persian Empire fulfills God’s prophecy. He predicted Cyrus's ascendancy to power before Daniel's birth and foretold that the kingdom conquering Babylon would be "inferior." The Medes, constituting the lesser part of the Medes-Persian kingdom, fulfill this aspect of the prophecy, reconciling what may seem like conflicting predictions. Despite all of God's interventions, Nebuchadnezzar remained resistant to a personal relationship with Him or acknowledgment of Him as his Lord and Savior, until his period of punishment during the seven days of living as an animal. Nebuchadnezzar possessed everything he desired but lacked what he truly needed. His aspirations for eternal life and reign left him indifferent to Daniel’s God or any deity. Yet, God would not permit him to obstruct the mission He had ordained long ago for Cyrus, Darius, and the second kingdom. We can discern God's design for the second kingdom and understand why Daniel did not specify the type of metal in the interpretation sequence. Silver, being unsuitable for military purposes, did not align with the manner in which Babylon would be conquered. Instead, God utilized the symbolic body parts associated with the second kingdom in His plan for the Jews. Whether considering the two arms of the metal-man image in Chapter 2 or the powerful arms depicted in the symbolic bear of Chapter 8, God employed these symbolic parts of a man and a bear that would receive the Jews from captivity in Babylon and facilitate their journey to Jerusalem. Thus, the plan for the second kingdom avoided physical force, relying instead on the imagery of two arms to orchestrate the return of the Jews. The names of both Darius and Cyrus were withheld from Nebuchadnezzar; one would only be revealed posthumously in the future, while the other remained concealed within the Scriptures some 150 years before his birth.

I wish I had the ability to respond in such a manner!!!!! Absolutely wonderful writing and thoughts. And I greatly appreciate your comments on the 4 kingdoms and I would like to take that as an opportunity to continue to discuss Daniel. In light of your response, please note that the ONLY book of the bible I have studied, and which I was not interested in studying it at the time, is Daniel. Someone suggested I read and understand Daniel before any attempt is made to try and understand Revelation - which no one wanted to discuss or study....Consequently, I began to read what I now find is the two very different camps of interpreting Daniel. One set of scholars have thrown much of Daniel forward into the end times while many other scholars sit on the other side of the fence and interpret Daniel more historical - how well can we match the events and actors to our history books. When they find they do not continue to match our history books, then they too begin to throw Daniel some 2000 years in the future. As a result of learning these two major interpretations where almost all folks have accepted, I thought it was important for me to perform my own study using these two "rails," if you will, and walk between these tracks taking advantage of their scholarship - left or right. Although I had no knowledge of Daniel whatsoever, I had these two camps to keep me in some sort of straight line. Meaning, I had no preconceived understanding of Daniel and I had no dog in either camp... I simply found it necessary to try and understand their interpretations and study on them for agreement. change, whatever. After 5 long years of this I completely my study and interpretations of the 12 chapters and have never been through such a more difficult, exhasting and frustrating endeavor. And I can also say it was the most important and rewarding time of my entire life. The end result was that MOST of Daniel, in my opinion had been seriously misinterpreted. And most scholars, academics and theologians of today may put their own "voice" to their commentary but they do not deviate from those sholars who have already presented their "accepted interpretations." So, that is the history of my last 5 years and now I am focusing on Revelation which, after my work on Daniel, reveals that "Today's accepted interpretations" of Revelation, as incomplete as they are, have also been misinterpreted by the same misinterpretations that were thrown forward from Daniel.... when they don't work, they are simply not intepreted and left blank. So, if you are interested, chapter 2 of Daniel. And let me start with the stucture of chapter 2 and get your thoughts In the early part of chapter 2, Gabriel gives us the 4 kingdoms of Babylon, Medes-Persia, Greece and then Rome - although Rome is the only one not specifically identified as Rome... but there can be no dispute it is Rome - specifically pagan Rome. This information is presented in the "Dream Sequence" or the big picture, the summary of the 4 and only 4 kingdoms that will come out of the sea as decreed by God. This sets the framework, blueprint where EVERYTHING will take place until His return. Later in Daniel - verses 41-45, Gabriel gives Daniel the "Interpretation Sequence" of verses. These represent events and actors that are not in chronological order to the "Dream Sequence" verses, but they represent the "details" of events that will fall WITHIN the previously provided Dream Sequence of verses - the 4 kingdoms. Chapter 2 is the "complete" big picture or blueprint that gives us a complete summary of His plan of salvation for mankind (this is also one of the major reasons it took over 5 years to unpack Daniel - the later chapters and verses were inconsistent and incomplete because of not getting back to chapter 2 and constantly looking at it a very different manner. By the way, this teaching method or method of presentation of providing the summary verses first, then the details that fall within them, as opposed to all verses largely being considered as chronological takes place in the Hebrew chapters beginning with chapter 7 onward and even in Revelation. So, I think we agree on the 4 kingdoms but before we move on to the "interpretation sequence" verses in 41-45, I would like to propose to you a very, very important deviation in interpreting two of the "Dream sequence" verses in 2:34-35. And unless these two verses are interpreted in a completely new light, much of Daniel will be .... lost. So, Daniel 2:34, is critical - it specifically speaks of the Stone (Messiah) that strikes the feet (not the toes) of the 4th kingdom beast. The 4th kingdom beast is indeed pagan Rome - including the feet made of iron, however, God has purposely placed the clay WITHIN the feet of pagan Rome. This "clay" symbolically represesnt His chosen people at the time of His FIRST coming who are symbolically kept within the pagan Roman Empire and subjugated and controlled. They represent all of the Jews at His first coming. Jesus, the Stone, will symbolically strike the feet and break apart (not destroy) the iron and clay components. The Stone (Jesus) did not come to destroy but to divide. This symbolically striking will break into pieces the clay from the iron into two groups (which will be discussed in the "interpreation sequence" verses. But the 4 kingdoms obviously continue after the cross (symbolically striking the feet). However, verse 2:35 does indeed represent God but it describes His return at the end of time to judge. The Stone is the Messiah, the Mountain is God. There is some 2000 years between 2:34 and 2:35 where God will soon begin to reveal all the events / actors, etc., that will take place during His first and second comings. So, I ask you to consider this and think about it.... please let me know if you want to continue after this intial but most significant interpretation ... without this, there is nothing that would make sense to you regarding my interpretations. Thanks so much.

Wow! There is so much great information here... certainly too much to address in a single response, but what is clearly evident is how much of the Scriptures you must have read and studied and interpreted over the years. For myself, I have only studied Daniel and have almost completed Revelation - maybe another 2 months. But anyway, rather that pick apart and discuss each comment you might be willing to entertain a sort of study / interpretation sharing that speaks to many of the events and actors in your post and certainly in this topic offereed my Michael37. If interested, we can learn of the others interpretations as we might move through the more important chapters / verses in Daniel. Specifically, Daniel 2, which reveals, in my understanding, the "blueprint" for everything that would come into being over the following 2700 years.... meaning, the 4 kingdoms represent all the established and authorized kingdoms that God will decree that have come out of t he sea.... only these 4 come out of the sea and, where the 4th kingdom, in it's final form must continue until His second coming. God has limited the number of actors and kingdoms in Daniel to a relatively few so we can focus on them and their respective actors only. This will transfer to the book of Revelation without any hiccups. So, if you would like to do this we might simply start with Chapter 2 and what are your 4 kingdoms and then move on (after discussing the "interpretative sequence of verses" given to us in 2:41-45. Then, on to chapter 7. Please let me know if this interests you and all others can certainly comment on each of our responses...

I would like to ask you to identify just who the little horn is in Daniel 7,8 and 11. And in order to do that one must use the prophetic verses found in Daniel 2, 7 and 8 whch provides sufficient characteristics, attributes, actions, timing, etc., for us to reveal him. If he is found to be an end time figure, you will never be able to make sense out of the Hebrew chapters in Daniel nor the verses in Revelation that speak of the sea beast, the earth beast, the harlot, etc. Almost 90 percent of folks have thrown so much of Daniel into the end times but the book of Daniel is approximately speaking of the literal events and actors that occur between 606 BC and the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy - which is 3.5 years after the cross. The other 10 percent (chaper 11) covers the period from the cross to the time when the little horn comes to full power and sits atop the 4th beast kingdom and continues until His return. Meaning, your questions can be answered only by properly identifiying the subject (the little horn) and when he comes on the scene. If you look in both Daniel and Revelation, one should see that this little horn does not accomplish or do all of his actions or transgressions against God and His people and His saints at the end of time..... He clearly is shown to speak against God, His saints and His followers for a very long time up to His return, not just before His return.

9:24f-Bring in everlasting righteousness Daniel had recorded the three types of sin in 9:24: c, d, and e. Man has been guilty of these since the fall of Adam. As a result of his sin, Adam (man) was removed from the Garden. His sinful nature could not be found in His presence. There is no individual, organization, church denomination, practice, or society that has been or could approach the definition of righteousness. We might define this enigmatic term in one of two ways: In a worldly manner, it might be termed the quality of being morally true. Others can see our actions, thoughts, and behavior. It applies to our personal relationships as well as the myriad societal relationships we travel through each day, however, there is certainly no righteousness quality to be found in there; we might as well reference the golden rule. When we delve into the spiritual dimension of righteousness, it takes on a deeper significance and requires a different perspective. In this context, righteousness is not merely about our outward actions or moral behavior, but it encompasses being in right alignment with God's standards, His will, and His character. It implies living in harmony with His divine purpose and reflecting His holiness in our thoughts, attitudes, and actions. And the only relationship we can possibly have with God is one of spiritual righteousness. This is on His terms, not ours. And since the fall, mankind has lost that spirit, that righteousness, and that holiness that was originally breathed into Adam at the time of his creation. In Genesis 2:7, we have the formula for how God created Adam as a living soul. 7And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. There are only two components that made Adam: dust from the ground and God breathing His Spirit into that dust. That was it. A+B=C. C represents the living soul. The living soul is not one of a three-part being that stands alone or exists without A or B. If either A or B is removed, there is no more C; It does not fly away somewhere; it does not go up or down for eternity. It simply means he or she is no longer a living soul (C). Further, B is or was not "air" that God breathed into Adam to jump-start his existence. It is the result of this divine interaction. This union sets humanity apart from the rest of creation and reflects our special status as beings made in the image and likeness of God. God had placed (breathed) His righteousness, His holiness, His Spirit within Adam. Adam's expulsion from the Garden of Eden following his disobedience illustrates the profound consequences of sin disrupting this divine-human relationship. Sin introduced a separation between humanity and God, tarnishing the purity and righteousness originally bestowed upon Adam. The expulsion symbolizes not only physical removal from the Garden but also a spiritual estrangement from God's presence. Once again, Adam did not have his own righteousness. It was God’s holiness that returned to Him, not the holiness or righteousness of Adam; there was / is no other place outside of God where His holiness was meant to be, or can be found. And this is exactly what God’s plan of salvation is all about: how will He get His holiness, His righteousness, His Holy Spirit back into us once again so we can be in His presence. When Adam sinned and disobeyed God, the consequences were not immediate physical death but rather a spiritual separation from God. Adam, though still physically alive, was spiritually dead or separated from God's presence. This spiritual death introduced a state of spiritual darkness and alienation from God's righteousness and holiness. This is exactly what happened to the Jews who rejected and crucified their Messiah, Jesus. This abominable act would cause God to make desolate their spiritual relationship for the next 2000 years (time of the Gentiles). God's plan of salvation, fulfilled through Jesus Christ, aims to reconcile humanity to Himself and restore the broken relationship caused by sin. Through faith in Christ, individuals are reconciled to God and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, who dwells within them and empowers them to live in accordance with God's righteousness and holiness. Ultimately, the restoration of God's righteousness and holiness within believers enables them to experience true spiritual life and communion with God, both in the present age and for eternity. Everyone born after Adam (outside the Garden) is a living being, not a living soul. Consequently, we do not have His Spirit, His holiness, or His righteousness within us. Therefore, there is nothing that moves on after we die. Our body goes into the ground. The giving of the Torah, with its sacrificial rituals, served as a temporary means of reconciliation between God and His people. These rituals were a foreshadowing of the ultimate sacrifice that Jesus would make on the cross, bringing everlasting forgiveness and restoration to all who believe. Through the Holy Spirit, believers receive the assurance of God's presence and the power to live transformed lives. God would send His Holy Spirit to the Jews on Pentecost, symbolizing the breathing back of His spirit once again into man. This was God’s way of restoring His righteousness and holiness within us—already, but not yet. It must be restored in man before we are able to be with God, but it will only be consummated or perfected at His second coming. His entire plan of salvation aims to restore each and every one of us to the precise state in which He originally created Adam. Just before Jesus died, He turned to His Father and said in Luke 23:46, 46And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit. Having said this, He breathed His last. This final statement from Jesus not only echoed the prayer of distress and trust in His God expressed by David in Psalm 31:5, but it also revealed that Jesus had to relinquish His Holy Spirit to God because He had taken on the sin of the world. Sin and God’s Holy Spirit—given to Him by God on the day of His anointing at His baptism—could not coexist. However, God would restore His Holy Spirit within Jesus on the day of His resurrection. This symbolizes the return of the Holy Spirit to dwell within humanity at His second coming, enabling us to be in God's presence once again. When God beholds His people at the end, He will not see our sin. Instead, we will be clothed in His righteousness. As stated in Isaiah 61:10 and in Titus 3:4-7, 10I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom deck himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels. 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior; 7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Righteousness or holiness will not be attained on this side of heaven. Good works and treating our fellow humans with dignity and care can never reach the heights of righteousness. It is an attribute that solely belongs to God, the lawgiver, and is reflected in His laws. If He desires to infuse His righteousness within us, it remains His righteousness and His gift to us. No individual can be justified by their own works apart from God’s ordinance. Only God has this righteousness to impart; it cannot be purchased, earned, worked for, or acquired in any manner. It is beyond the capability of humanity to generate any form of righteousness, and despite our best intentions, actions, and deeds, all our works are akin to filthy rags. In Isaiah 64:6, he writes, 6But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousness’s are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, Only the righteousness of Christ (not our own) will enter His kingdom.

Thank you for all your time and thoughts on this terrific topic. I have addressed this in my commentary of Daniel and will go back and pull things together for a proper response to this... it will take a little time but perhaps in 2 days.... best wishes and nice comments.

Thank you for your thoughts! Well, I believe we might only have one point that we do not share and that is exactly what did God breathe into Adam. I feel quite comfortable that God breathed His "spirit" / "holiness" into Adam and not simply "air." Genesis does not explicitly tell us what He breathed into Adam. 1) God did not breathe into any other living creature to begin their life - only Adam. 2) This allowed Adam to physically be with God and not be destroyed. 3) The "image" to me, does not mean to suggest Adam looks like God with two legs, two arms, a body and and head, etc., but that he is made in His image by placing His holiness / His spirit into Adam. 4) Before Adam sinned he was covered with some sort of garment - not made of any materials but perhaps like a holy covering (whatever that looks like). 5) After he sinned, that covering was removed from him and he would not be covered by animal skin. 6) So if we do a before and after picture of Adam (after he sinned), we notice these changes: a) he no longer had this outer covering around him, b) he could not longer stay in Eden - in God's presence, c) he still had all the physical features he was created with. d) he still had his mind, conscience, self awareness, nothing was taken from him other than this "outer covering" which I believe represented God's glory / holiness / spirt. e) God immediately developed a plan to restore man to the Garden. f) Through the cross, He would send His Holy Spirit to reside WITHIN each of us who accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior. This symbolically was the placing of His holiness / spirit / glory within us as if we were in the Garden (would not be perfected until the resurrection). g) at the resurrection, those in Christ will be given an immortal body which I believe is the same as Adam was given before the fall - thus, God is restoring us to the same manner as Adam.... h) I also believe that Jesus would confirm this when He was on the cross. At His baptism, God would place His Spirit within Jesus at the beginning of His ministry. When He was on the cross, Jesus, who was sinless, would take on the sin of the world. This meant that He was now no longer pure and sinless, and consequently, He would say on the cross to God, "into your hands I commit my spirit." Meaning, sin and His Spirit cannot be in the same place together. Jesus would have to return His God given spirit before He died to take on the horrible sins of the world. Now, He would die and be placed into the grave for 3 days and God would restore His spirit within Jesus and now He would also have that same outer covering that Adam had before the fall. And now, Jesus would be able to return to the Garden (heaven) to be with His Father. All of this is symbolic of how God is going to restore us back to the Garden - we must have His spirit / holiness / glory placed into us to be able to be in His presence. i) This "restoration" of man is something that can only come from God - He is the only One who has it to give... it is not air, not a spirit as others think, but it is His spirit / holiness / glory that has to be placed back into us once again. j) the dead who are resurrected in the second resurrection who rejected Jesus will also be brought back with their same body, mind, conscienesss, etc., but they will not be given His holiness / spirit / glory and thus will be destroyed by His brillance and holiness. Hope this makes sense.... Best wishes.