tatwo

Bro...you could put together a fantastic "forum and OP" on this subject...I know it! May God's favor continue to strengthen you Marathoner...you are an inspiration! Tatwo...:)

"what if falling church numbers is a good thing?" Well that is a matter of perspective...@Ghostdog...most won't even realize it and few actually care, for reasons they believe are just. Some do it to escape the pure foolery that their church has become as it tries to attain relevance in their culture. Other's...those who are looking for the "Body of Christ" and they will find it...they must leave...they are being "called out." A large portion of "Christianity" as a whole...referencing the entire "denominational empire"...sees this as something that happens to "the others"...the heretics, rebellious, unbelieving...largely after "they" are "gone?" Perhaps an accurate definition of "church" may be in order here? On top of that...Paul made it prophetically clear that some element of this "must" happen...so it will happen...and it is happening and will continue yet for a while. I am referencing the "falling away"...the "departure." For some...it will be like the Jews who departed from the law and Moses...which had become "anáthema"...and came to Yahshua Christ. "Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?" 2nd Thessalonians 2:1-5 NASB This could be an eye opening discussion? Tatwo...:)

Greetings @Who me... This is an important clarification...consider Paul on the matter? “For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.” Galatians 3:27-29 NKJV “For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.” Romans 10:11-13 NASB Citizenship in the Kingdom of God is not “human centric”...not flesh and blood...it is a “Spirit Kingdom” and you have to have the Holy Spirit...which will only come if you worship and obey the Lord Yahshua Christ. “However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.” Romans 8:9-11 NASB Our “Brothers and Sisters” in Israel...those in Christ...are already protected via eternal life. They need our prayers for strength and revelation...perhaps more than ever? Tatwo...:)

Greetings to the house! Curiously...it seems like you @Vine Abider answered the question of the title of this forum as "yes" and then sort of backed off that statement? Perhaps it is just the way I am reading it...no worries. I however will answer it this way...No...the Lord Yahshua Christ “did not” come “just” to go to the cross. As for the “What was He after ultimately?” As Brother @Cntrysner stated in his post on page 3 of this forum...” I would say, to make man in His image...Gen_1:26 “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:” is likely a more revealing place to start this inquiry than at the cross...right? Considering that the “cross” as invaluable as it was/is...that is not the “beginning of His” journey. This discussion will not be had in its fullness if we limit it to this our understanding of “creation” and the “temporal reality” that is here...this was never merely a “flesh and blood” issue. Yahshua existed long before He robed Himself in the flesh of a man...He is eternal. That then always makes a number of believers uneasy. It would seem that Isaiah framed this truth in this manner...in chapter 9 verse 6...“For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” So...prior to being...a “child who is born” and becoming a “Son that is given”...He exists as the “Mighty God” and the “Everlasting Father” upon whose shoulders the “government of God in creation” will rest...He is. And...because He is! He is alive...living an active...sharper than a two edged sword...so...we must inquire of Him directly...yes? This is how He will reveal...His...reasons and purposes for Him putting creation in place to begin with...as the foremost consideration in this discussion. Consider something Paul touches on in Colossians 1, speaking of Yahshua Christ...“For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.” So then...with Yahshua established in this discussion as the “creator” who “is before all things” as stated by Paul...and given the fact that “All things were created through Him and for Him”...understanding “His purpose”...for establishing creation within His eternal self...becomes paramount in answering @Vine Abiders question of...“What was He after ultimately?” The Father of creation takes the first 5 days to establish an abundant plush “creation” to support what He will do on the 6th day...create Adam His first Son...the first living soul...and put him on the earth in the garden...to rule. The scripture that Cntrysner brought up...which I referenced earlier...helps us to understand God’s purpose. Genesis 1:26-27...“Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.” This is likely a much better place to start...than the cross...to explore the important questions...“Did Christ come to just go to the Cross?”...and...“What was He after ultimately?” I read the forum a couple of times...save a mention or two of the “eternal pre-creation Christ” much of the discussion bounces around in the “temporal realm” with some connection to the Holy Spirit on the earth in man. What the Lord Yahshua Christ was/is after has its roots in the eternal...one must begin this journey there. Tatwo...:)

Greetings @biblelesson... I would agree with that...however the Holy Spirit filled Sons of God are not merely human. They are a “new being” like no other in creation...they embody the eternal “Royal Priesthood” of the New Covenant. They are eternal and that have the mind of Christ to boot. They can and do understand Ezekiel 1:17-20...that’s not the problem as you suggest...no. The problem is that if I were to attempt to “deconstruct” passages like Ezekiel 1:17-20...most of the people who would read it are of the same opinion as you biblelesson...which is..."no human can understand the passages...especially not you." This undermines their faith to begin with...simply because of the “doubt and unbelief” that anyone can know these things. If someone does interpret them...that causes pride to assault those who do not believe...because they never knew it...it makes people feel ignorant...and they are...but that is understandable...spiritual truths like this must be revealed by the Holy Spirit. On top of that it is a "mystery hidden in God for long ages past" and they are time sensitive I'll grant that...but that time has come. Why would anything written in the scriptures be completely out of reach to the mind of Christ...in His Sons...outside of timeing...as you seem to be saying? There are those who are called by the Lord and gifted to interpret these passages and have...apparently you and many others don’t actually know anyone who can. It requires “revelation” directly from the Lord Yahshua Christ so an opinion will not suffice to reveal the mystery. The revelation from the Lord concerning these "heavenly creatures" comes from the scriptures themselves...and...because of it's eternal character and nature...it will consume most of modern evangelical Christianity's doctrines with the fire of the "Word." We know they won't tolerate that type of thing. Tatwo...:)

Greetings @Figure of eighty... I am going to assume that you are a child of God in my response, since I do not know better. Take stock in what you have posted here...are you being honest? It’s not that I think otherwise...it’s just a place to start...often times in troublesome situations our emotions cause us to “over think, over state, over play or over react” to the issues. I am not suggesting that you are...only offering a “next step of remediation” beginning with your thought process. Now...perhaps you can look back at the “pathway” into the “current situation” as you see it. I know that can be difficult...what you are looking for is the thought process that guided your emotions, actions and words on the journey to where you are...in other words...whats the condition of your condition” and why? Consider any potential impact upon the others around you...do this in the light of why you are there and whose place is it? Look for places where perhaps you were offended and you may have responded in an offensive manner...reason is...you may have “ruffled some feathers” or stirred up another’s emotions. Did you confront the others in love and understanding...for example? You’re looking at why relationships are toxic for you in your hour of need. Consider any emotionally charged responses or interactions toward or with the people you mentioned in your post...if any...warranted or otherwise. I am simply encouraging you to consider walking back through the journey to now...and to consider your own behavior in a greater detail. I am not saying you are at fault, I am not saying that others have always acted in a respectful manner...I don’t know those things...but. If you were to “honestly” do those things as I am suggesting you may be able to see where you could have done better...and do better moving forward...maybe? Why would this be important? Well...you really cannot mandate the attitude or behavior of others around you...but you do have the ability to take full responsibility for your attitudes and behaviors. The reason this is important is...because it may create a greater sense of “humility in you”...this then will draw the grace of the Lord Yahshua to you and your situation. That is what you need more than anything...He resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. I am not suggesting that you are “proud” my primary focus is upon “His grace to you” in your time of need...He is faithful. His grace consists of great things that you need but cannot supply for yourself...and He will reveal Himself to you in your situation. As He does this...you will be able to experience a deeper sense of thankfulness that can produce an attitude of forgiveness...and we all know how powerful and contagious forgiveness really is. Perhaps for now you cannot change the environment you are in...but look for the Lord’s leading as I have suggested. I am sure you are a loving mother...so continue to find ways to put those children in the best environment available...maybe the one you’re in for now. We are all in the process of being transformed by the renewing of our minds...and the principals of God are our best options May His awesome strength come to you in Love... Tatwo...:)

Greetings @truth7t7... The physical city of Jerusalem, Israel? It that what you are saying? Tatwo...:)

Greetings @Marilyn C... Here is what I am “saying”...in order for something to be “eternal” it had to have existed before creation and time. For example...“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” The only thing that I am aware of that existed before the creation of the heavens and the earth is...God...who is a “Spirit.” When there was no creation and all that comes with it in the heavens and on the earth...there was the eternal Spirit of God the Father. Marilyn, from what I think I know...about that which exists eternally...can accurately be defined and qualified as “no beginning and no ending” and I would cite the “Spirit of God”...as both my proof and example. So...any connection to an eternal existence must be defined this way...the Spirit of God. So as it would seem...the only way for something to exist eternally is...to be of the same substance that God the eternal Spirit Himself “is.” I am speaking of that which “He” allots via Christ...and is realized and recognized as an endowment [of Spirit] out of His own person...which is Spirit. He does this...and rest assured that it is Him and only Him that can do this. “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father [eternal Spirit] but through Me.” This is the Lords personal and only...authenticated access to God...His eternal Spirit Father...and it is only offered to humans as He calls them to it. For those who respond to His call...in faith and obedience...they will then be...“reconciled”...meaning to...“reestablish a close relationship”...in this case a spiritual “likeness, oneness, or unity” with the eternal Spirit of God. This should tie my entire thought together for you Sister...the connection that a human has to the eternal Spirit of God is our human spirit...which came from God to begin with? When He indwells the human spirit with His Holy Spirit...that human spirit is then “reanimated and reconnected” to its pre-creation, preordained, predestined eternal existence. This eternal life only exists...in or as the Spirit of God. I quoted you Paul’s teaching on this very subject in an earlier post...here it is once again... Ephesians 1... “He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will...just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world...He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him...also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will” Romans 8...“For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son...and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.” Ephesians 2... “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.” This is why Paul also teaches things like... “from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer.” “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female” “For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek” “a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew” The Lord Himself put it this way... “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” Jews and gentiles are separate independent human flesh and blood definitions applied to those who can exist in creation only. For those of us who are born of God’s eternal Spirit...we are no longer merely carnal temporal human beings that can only exist in creation. We are “Spirit beings” whose spirits exist eternally in Christ...though some of us are yet clothed upon by flesh. Our spiritual existence is in the invisible Kingdom of God where Yahshua is...and we are eternally alive in the Spirit. This is why “in the Spirit realm of eternity” there are no distinctions between “Jew and Greek.” There is only one Kingdom in the eternal Spirit...the Kingdom of God...there is only one priesthood in eternity and it is the Royal Priesthood and the only nation in eternity is a Holy Nation and it is made up of “the spirits of the righteous made perfect.” Here I’ll leave you with a quote from Peter in regards to the matter Sister Marilyn C... “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. 1st Peter 2:9-10 KJV Tatwo...:)

Of course and I agree...with some exceptions...things that I have already presented to you. Marilyn C I understand your “eschatological world view” to an acceptable degree...I have been reading you for years. Everything that was created...was created by intention and for purpose by the Lord and for Him only. The Kingdom of Heaven [Holy Spirit Realm in creation] and the Kingdom of God [All authority and Power in creation] is presently an invisible eternal spiritual Kingdom...spanning both the heavens and the earth? It supports a completely different “citizenry”...an invisible yet real “spiritual citizenry”...they are the Spirit born Sons of God...known as “the spirits of the righteous made perfect.” The classifications you are using “nations – gentiles” and “Israel – Jews” have merit when speaking to a flesh and blood “earthly creature and existence.” It seems that you routinely conflate the eternal spiritual and temporally created realms...you may not see that...it is apparent to me...I understand that doctrinal stance also. For whatever it’s worth...I urge you to reconsider that position...and talk to the Holy Spirit about these things I am presenting you. May God strengthen you...via revelation? The former is eternal and spiritual...it is timeless, ageless unending ages, no beginning and no ending...Holy Spirit in character and nature...Yahshua. These are the ones who have passed through death into life...though some of them are yet clothed upon by flesh. All flesh will cease and yet...the Spirit that abides in Christ...within that dying flesh...cannot cease...it is this life that we are to pursue. The other...is temporal and physical...that which is created...has a beginning and has an ending just as everything that God created...will cease to exist when they have fulfilled God’s divine purposes. This includes all nations and peoples...for it is from them...the Father has granted to His Son...that He may reap a people for His name...those created in His image and likeness...Spirit...not flesh. The separation my Sister is happening as you read this...perhaps you might consider the “priesthood” and its role in the administration of its attendant covenant. With the Old Covenant you had the priesthood of “Aaron” aka the “Levitical priesthood” made up of finite men from Israel...who administered the elements of God for them...as a promised nation in order to bring forth...the seed of promise. This “Levitical priesthood”...was never intended as an eternal priesthood...and it is not Marilyn. With the New Covenant you have a “Royal priesthood” after the eternal order of Melchisedek remember? This Royal priesthood is not made up of finite men...but rather of righteous eternal spirits of men. Additionally its designation as “Royal” comes from the fact that the King of kings is upon the throne of God...and He is also the High Priest of the eternal priesthood...which existed long before creation...the nations or the Jews...no beginning no ending...eternal! All elements of the Old Covenant are fulfilled in and by the Lord Yahshua Christ...as He has instituted the New Covenant in His blood. Those in Christ whose lives are already eternal in their nature and in their pursuit...do so via their spirit. It is this order of “Royal Priests – Yahshua and His Spirit breathed Sons of God” who administer the elements of the New Covenant...this includes the entirety of the eschaton...of which in part they will be ordering forth God’s judgment. In order to partake of the New Covenant Truths, promises and prophecies...one must be a Spirit son of God. A spiritual nation of eternal Kings and Priests...eternity can only be inhabited by Spirit...the Holy Spirit of the living God to be precise. A place where there are no “free and slave...male or female...Jew or gentile” this place is here...now...today. All the “Sons of God” are like their Father who is Spirit...if you are a son of God it is by His Spirit that you are His offspring...so you are Spirit. Some of us are yet in these fleshly bodies...however I should think that most of us are already with Him...by Spirit. Outside of the “remnant” of “Spirit Sons to God” from Israel...as it is with any and all other nations...there will be no earthly nations or flesh and blood people in the “Royal Priesthood” Sister. This simply cannot happen...Scripture makes the point emphatically...those who believe and try...will fail. It will take that for many to see the error in false doctrines...if they have been born again. Tatwo...:)

Scripturally...and working from my last post to you Marilyn...in terms of the “Kingdom of God”...that eternal spiritual realm of the Living God...is here now. For the “sons of God” who have “entered into the Kingdom of God”...are already in heaven...by the Spirit. There are a number of passages that support this truth...I’ll include only one of them. “But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ [Spirit] (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.” Ephesians 2:4-7 NASB This is an “invisible Spirit reality”...its known as being “in Christ”...this does not include flesh and blood. Hence...in that way He [Holy Spirit] has already “raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus”...in other words we are on the throne of God in Christ. Seems like a straight forward concept...as I have encountered...either one believes it or they do not...that depends upon their faith...and perhaps humility...but there can be no mixture of the two realities. So based upon what Paul said...the Spirit Sons of God are “already in glory” with the Lord...while I can agree that the ages will change...I am not waiting for some future event to “get into heaven or to glory” spiritually...because I am already here in Christ...great is the mystery of godliness Sister? Not only that...but I know what it is that I am to be doing in this life “specifically”...as I am God’s workmanship...created in Christ Yahshua for good works which my Father planned for me to walk in before He put creation in place. This is actually what I am being reconciled to in this life today! I am...as any maturing son of God is...learning how to live out of an eternal life here and now in this present creation...that I might be fully prepared for the utter end of this age...and to rule in the age to come. To miss this may not cost one their salvation...however it will make things much more complicated than they need to be moving forward in time. Tatwo...:)

So if I understand your question...you are asking this in the light of your list...”The Nations, Israel, The Body of Christ”...and where each group is appointed to rule in eternity...this is what I am working from. Now based upon your question...it appears to me that you believe...“each group [has] been appointed to rule in Gods great kingdom in eternity”...so it does appear that you are separating their existence by these three designations and this...in eternity. At a glance...you and I may have a different understanding of eternity...and Spirit life. That means...that it is likely that we are not in the same “mindset” concerning “Spirit life in Christ” as well. I am thankful to discuss this matter with you @Marilyn C...in as much as you so desire. And I am honored that you would ask me this question...so thank you. Today is fresh...your question is “Worthy”...you are “Worthy” my Sister...here is how I will respond. My answer to the question you asked of me and in your “OP” in this forum... “where has each group been appointed to rule in Gods great kingdom in eternity?” is this. The “Jews and the nations” have no place in the eternal spiritual Kingdom of God as you have listed. The Body of Christ...which includes its glorious Head is a completely different reality and person...a Spirit. The designation of “Jew and gentile” is a direct reference to a “flesh and blood” humanity which cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. The Son of God known as Christ is not flesh and blood...He is Spirit. If a Jew becomes a son of God...”Spirit” he is in the Kingdom of God...the same goes for the “nations” or the “Greek” or the “gentile” or the “heathen” and all the others Paul has listed. My explanation is below...if you or any others care to read it...do not be surprised if you hear some Truth you may have never heard or perhaps simply have not pieced together yet? And I am open for discussion in the matter. Christ...the many membered “Spirit Man” [Christ – Head and Body as one eternal Spirit being] is the basis and the purpose of creation...I think I made my point patently in my earlier post. You may not agree with my interpretation...fine. Christ then...being eternal...existed prior to creations [heaven and earth] actual existence...scripture supports this well. If “Christ” existed prior to our God and Father installing this creation within Himself...which He did...then the “pre-creation Christ” had to have been “Spirit and eternal” in nature...like God....not flesh and blood...and of course...He is. Perhaps you are following me here...you may disagree...but at least follow me as I chase this out some? The term “nations – ethnos” is generally describing heathens and gentiles...people, humans, flesh and blood beings. The term “Israel – Israél” is used in the New Testament to refer to the people of Israel, the nation of Israel, and sometimes symbolically to denote the spiritual descendants of Jacob....again we see clear reference to...people, humans, flesh and blood beings. The term “Body of Christ” – as I have posted above...is not “flesh and blood” He is “Spirit.” On the earth He...the Holy Spirit of Christ...indwells people, humans...“flesh and blood” beings. He however...is not flesh and blood...He is not human...He is the eternal Spirit...which is a completely independent life...from the biological flesh and blood existence of the human body. The life of the Spirit is an endowment out of the person of God Himself who is “Spirit.” For example...think Yahshua post baptism...where the Spirit of God descended and remained upon Him...which was a sign to John the Baptist...designating the One who is the “Lamb of God” and “would baptize in the Holy Spirit.” In this event...the Holy Spirit revealed Himself as “real, alive and living” in the Lord Yahshua Christ...the son of man [flesh]...making Him The Son of God [Spirit]...while walking the earth in His flesh and blood. Paul told us that...“from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer.” Christ Yahshua is...since at least His ascension to glory...Spirit...and the Sons of God have...His Spirit which is Him...indwelling us...and His Spirit is eternal...no beginning no end...all flesh will parish. That’s why the Lord told Nicodemus...“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” Yahshua is openly telling Nicodemus a Pharisee and a leader of the Jews...there is a “significant” difference between “flesh and Spirit”...the number one issue is...the flesh will die...and the Spirit can never die. If you are “not” born again...you remain in “your flesh” and you do not have the “eternal life of Christ” in you...the Holy Spirit. Yahshua makes it emphatically clear...“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” He is saying that...you must have the “Holy Spirit” dwelling within your members...in your “human spirit” in order to be “in Christ” and to enter into the spiritual Kingdom of God...having existed prior to creations actual existence...this Spirit...is not flesh and blood. “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the eternal Kingdom of God” because...they are not “Spirit”...only Spirit can inherit the spiritual Kingdom of God. Paul wrote in Galatians 3 “For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. [Holy Spirit] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; [all 6 designations are in reference to flesh and blood] for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” There is no flesh and blood in Christ...one is in Christ as a Spirit and an eternal Spirit at that. To apply your question to me Marilyn...I am led at this point to tell you this...working from Paul who said...neither...“Jew nor Greek”...in other words there is neither...“Israel nor nations”...in Christ...it is a one to one correlation. “Israel and nations” are the designations of the “flesh and blood” of humans...flesh and blood humans are not in the Kingdom of God. Only those who have the Holy Spirit are in the Kingdom of God because this is a “Spirit Kingdom” and you must have God’s “Spirit”...in your “spirit” to be assembled into it. In Romans 10 Paul tells the family of God...“For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; [Once again Israel & Nations] for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him.” Those “in Christ” are no longer seen by Yahshua and Paul as “Jews and gentiles”...the Lord is a Spirit...this is reference to “the spirits of the righteous made perfect” which Paul acknowledges as the “general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven” from Hebrews 12. Only Spirits can be in heaven...right...and by virtue of being in Christ...we are already there? It is a spiritual reality...not a physical reality...I think people forget that. Do not forget the earlier reference I listed for you...“from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; [because in Christ we are recognized as a Spirit] even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, [when He was alive on the earth] yet now we know Him in this way no longer.” [Since His ascension and glorification] we now recognize Him as the eternal Holy Spirit. Those who are in Christ are so...as a Spirit...we are a totally new being...and “the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him-- a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, [the “nations and Israel”] circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.” Here in Colossians 3 Paul lists 8 designations applied to the “flesh and blood” of all humanity and states that whosoever is in Christ is no longer set apart by the distinctions of flesh and blood designations...though while in their flesh and blood existence “other humans” may recognize them by these designations. I will leave you with this from Ephesians 2...“For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups [Jews - Israel and gentiles - nations] into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, [there is now “no distinction” between the two] by abolishing in His flesh [The sacrifice of His flesh] the enmity, [the disparity and angst] which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, [The law of Moses as given to Israel] so that in Himself [this is what it means to be “in Christ”] He might make the two into one new man, [a “Spirit Man” named Christ] thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body [the “Spirit” Body of Christ] to God [who is a Spirit] through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.” In Christ...there is no difference between the Jew and the gentile...Israel and the nations because the Body of Christy has become “One New [Spirit] Man”...known as Christ...the Son of the living God. Tatwo...:)

I think He would have been pleased with that! The plan of God however...was set and in place prior to anything in creation coming forth. The pre-creation covenant the Father made with His Son always had things going the way they did/are...we all know that. Besides Israel rejected God's offer to come into the eternal Royal Priesthood..."Melchisedek" who existed well prior to Israel...so it had to be the human based priesthood of the Levites...and them not going the way God would have preferred it to go for them...ever. None the less...God’s eternal and ultimate purpose was to bring forth those “He predestined as His sons...which have been conformed to Christ.” We have become His poetry, a “re-created” people...if you will...that will fulfill the destiny He has given each of us, for we are joined to Yahshua, the Anointed Eternal One. Even before we were born, God planned in advance “our destiny” and the good works we would do to “live it out” in obedience to Him! So in the “big picture” you know a thing we call “eternity”...no beginning no end...it was always about the bringing forth of the fully matured and spiritual “Royal Priesthood” comprised of the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Yahshua, the mediator of a New Covenant. It was is going to be about the “invisible Spirit Man known as Christ” and it was/is never going to be about whether one is free or slave...male or female...Jew or Greek...these are designations that pertain only to the humanness of creation. As eternal beings we are no longer relegated to or identified by the Lord Yahshua...as mere human naming conventions. We are One New Spirit Man...One in Christ...One in God...eternal in our existence. Tatwo...:)

Greetings @Marilyn C and all... I can and would love too...I was beginning to think that no one would ask. "God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." Gen 1:27 NASB This is "God's original intent" and the "entire purpose" for an "abundant creation" being put in place to begin with...to support this "Man." God is an invisible Spirit...He wants to reveal Himself and His love to His creation as Father...but He is "so big" that there is no vantage point where one could go and say..."over there...yeh it's God I can see God"...no...creation exists within Him and comes forth from Him. He desires to "dwell" among His creation as Himself...an eternal Spirit...so He made a "man of flesh"...Adam the first human and son of God. Adam failed...God knew this was going to happen which is why the "first Adam" was not the "man in the image and likeness of God." Adam did however accomplish the bringing forth the family of humans in a fleshly body...in which God the Father placed a spirit of life...an impartation of Himself...and a soul. All of carnal humanity springs forth from Adam and Eve...that's how the entirety of humanity was set in motion and why. This includes all the nations, Israel and Body of Christ...God simply wants to dwell among His creation...specifically and only in people who are in His image...God has always wanted to be experienced by mankind. We know that the Lord Yahshua Christ was in view prior to creation being established...many scriptures reveal this...so Yahshua...the “second Adam” was always God the Fathers perfect intention and the fulfillment of God’s original "pre-creation" intention...“the man created in His image and likeness.” He...the Lord Yahshua comes forth then...as the "perfect Son of God”...He is “the man in the image and likeness of God...Himself"...Yahshua came forth to show us His Father...whose eternal “Spirit” was now on the earth in a human being...Him. Whoever qualifies as a son of God in this creation...is in Christ...and is becoming “the man in the image and likeness of Christ”...who is God. When He is fully matured...according to the Holy Spirits judgment, which time has been set prophetically...He will begin to be revealed upon the earth...as the “Son of God.” His nature is an invisible Spirit...housed in human bodies...exactly like our Lord Yahshua Christ...for exactly the same purpose...to reconcile man to God and to destroy the works of the devil...and this will be right here on this present earth...unto the revealing of creations King and High Priest. The “Spirit to spirit” interaction that humanity can have with the eternal God...is what connects the “spirit mind of man” to the “Spirit mind of God”...where they “commune as an eternal One.” The man was given a soul so that he would be able to interact or connect with the physical world around him. So this “man in the image and likeness of God” is capable of interacting with the Spirit of the eternal living God in Christ...while also and simultaneously being able to interact with the physical world and its people around him...by the five senses of the soul. This “Mans” body is how the “man” exists in the world...visible and experiential to the world...all the while by his spirit...being able to exist “in” the Spirit of the eternal invisible person of Christ. This man is both divine and eternal because He is Spirit...no free man, no slave...no male, no female...no Jew, no gentile. He is an entirely new creation and is not known after the human designations...even though humans are. This then is how the mighty God interacts, loves and is loved and worshipped in His creation. This “Man” and “this man only” the “Son of God...Christ...Head and Body”...becomes “the Son who is the dazzling radiance of God’s splendor, the exact expression of God’s true nature—His mirror image!” In other words...”the Man in the image and likeness of God”...for which creation was abundantly "sown and purposed"...to bring forth...so that God the Father would have many Spirit sons in His only begotten Son the Lord Yahshua Christ...by His Spirit. It is these that He will “harvest from creation” and take into eternity to rule and reign as Christ the Son of the living God! This Marilyn...covers the “purpose of God making the...nations, Israel, the Body of Christ.” I would be remiss if I did not include here that the mature members of Christ...are so...because they are living out the exact purpose in the Body of Christ that the Father “predestined...before creation” and desires them to live...and they know it. They have been reconciled to their “eternal purpose in Christ”...it is these who will reveal the supremacy of Christ to His enemies...so...we are nearly prepared for and end of the age show down with darkness...and the judgment has already been awarded to the “Man in the image and likeness of God”...known as the Son of the living God and Father of creation...Christ. Tatwo...:)

Brother...I am not familiar with "your style" but I am learning. This post made me LoL...please don't be offended...I wish I could have put it so neat and succinctly...with a touch of humor...unless I missed you then forgive me. Tatwo...:)

Yeh...well you said a mouthful there brother...yes we can see that Israel was reconstituted as a nation as you suggest...and the spiritual ramifications of this event does include a remnant...it is no different than any other nation tribe tongue or people. The enemy is using that fact...that Israel is once again a nation and that it somehow fits into the eschaton in its own unique and special way...however this is all deception on the part of the dragon...which does lead to skepticism as to their importance...so I am with you "Brother D. Adrian" and at the very least skeptical of its significance myself. It is because those who see a national ethnic people as being included in the citizenship of the Kingdom of Heaven do not realize that the citizenship of the Kingdom of heaven is not physical nor is it ethnic...it is purely Spirit...Paul teaches this explicitly. We are a new creation...we are eternal...not an old physical geographical ethnic reality that has been done away with. So some folks will be unhappy that I said that...I know...yet when this all plays out...the truth will be known. The issue in view here is the priesthood that administers the covenant. There is very little if any pertinent conversation about priesthoods on any of these forums that I have seen...but I have not seen them all. I'll put this in play here...it is not a secret...the covenant God made with Himself before creation...before there were men...was always going to be administered by the "Royal Priesthood." The priesthood of Aaron also know as the "Levitical Priesthood" was a priesthood of men...finite humans...it was a type of "workaround" to keep a mostly rebellious Israel in the game to bring forth the "seed of promise"...God is merciful and gracious in the eternal way we must never forget that. Abraham himself encountered "Melchisedek" the "Royal Priest - of the eternal Priesthood" long before Jacob was born and had any sons. This "Royal Priesthood" was in play then...and was always going to be the way God would administer His Kingdom...aka..."the Government of God"...on the earth. The Levitical Priesthood was for Israel...for a time...it was they who administered the standing covenant of their day...the "Old Covenant"...that time is over for like 2000 years. That priesthood is gone and will never again be of any consequence in terms of what the Lord Yahshua Christ in doing to bring about the revelation of His authority at the end of this age. The Royal Priesthood is not made up of men...it is purely a spiritual priesthood and it is eternal...and is not in any way reliant upon man or anything in creation for that matter. The "Royal Priesthood" is such...because when you are both the King of kings who sits upon the throne of God you are "Royalty." When that "Royal King" who sits on the throne is also God's "High Priest" in the eternal order of Melchisedek...you have a "Royal Priesthood." A prophetic type of this is found in Zechariah 6... This eternal Royal Priesthood is bringing the administration of "all authority"...given to our Lord Christ Yahshua by His Father "in heaven and on the earth"...making Him the "plenary source of all authority"...and He is bringing the "government of God" into play here on the earth as you read this. Those who constitute this "Royal Priesthood"...the "Body of Christ" under the immutable leadership of its glorious Head...is not presently waiting, watching and praying for the secret second coming of the Lord Yahshua Christ...that will not happen in that way. They...the "Sons of God...the Body of Christ" are being prepared to reveal the glory of our God and Father of creation...in the exact manner in which the "first born of many sons"...the "only begotten Himself" did. As a result...they...Head and Body have begun to establish the Truth that the Lord Yahshua Christ...the Son of the living God...is in fact the King of kings. Something that Israel and Rome rejected. His Father promised Him all the nations and the ends of the earth...and He is going to get them! He is Christ...Head and Body...alive and well on the earth and in the heavens today. He is eternal...no beginning and no end...there is nothing that can threaten Him. Perhaps you have not heard this have you? And many of you who do...will reject this...fine go back to your creature comforts and trust in them to secure you...I have no issue with that...the Lord Himself warned us against that. If you are "born again" we will meet again...hopefully in this age...I say that because the next age is going to be quite different for the rebellious children of God. Prophetically D. Adrian...Christ the Son of the living God is being revealed to creation now...as the fulfillment of God the Father's original desire and intent in the putting forth of creation itself...to bring about "a man in His image and likeness." Such a man is "Spirit" not flesh...and He is called Christ. Tatwo...:)