wingnut-

It's refreshing to see a President whose science advisers actually know something about science and don't buy into this nonsense.

God is omnipresent, and the Holy Spirit is one third of the Godhead. I understand that this is a view held by many, but it simply cannot be reconciled to the passage in Joel. Notice exactly what is prophesied by Joel. Joel 2:28 “And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. His Spirit will be poured out on all flesh. Just consider this, how can anyone come to God if the Holy Spirit is not present? I love this passage. There is something important to notice about it though, it is a continuation of something we are told earlier. Revelation 6:9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. You have this group at the fifth seal who have been killed, they are given white robes and told to rest until more join them in death. This is when the persecution begins, the beasts war against the saints. The great multitude are the number of fellow servants and brethren who will be killed as this group was, which is why they come out of the tribulation. They do not come out alive. God bless

Right, the ever growing belief that God can't preserve His word. He can part the Red Sea, keep a hungry lion from eating Daniel, bring three people alive out of a fiery furnace, but keeping His promise to preserve His word is such an impossible task. Funny it always happens to be when someone can't reconcile their theory to scripture. You go on relying on your own wisdom, good luck with that.

I wasn't talking about the waste part

Aren't we all?

So you think moving the comma around validates your claim? First you say there shouldn't be a comma, now you want to move it around and manipulate scripture to make it say what you want it to say? UNBELIEVABLE!! Just when I think I've seen it all. Wow!

I agree, it was certainly not a selling point I ever bought into. I'm no genius when it comes to money management, but at least I've never filed for bankruptcy lol.

And I thank you for allowing yourself to be used by Him. It was several years ago I asked Him for understanding on this matter, and He has supplied the answer through you. The comparison to Adam and Eve was brilliant! As for the sacrifices that is how I have always understood them as well, during the tribulation period. As for my third point it was more of an afterthought, based on the fact that time is relative to the limitations of my own understanding. The peace I have following your explanation leaves me no doubt that the matter is resolved and I have received my answer. Thanks again for serving our Lord. God bless you brother

Thank you OneLight for this response, it is the best explanation I have ever heard in regards to this. It makes complete sense to me what you are saying, and I appreciate your insight. Time is definitely not the same to us as God for sure, I have never questioned that. I love how you described time changing as we get older, isn't that the truth lol. You have given me a lot to consider, and I am grateful for your time and the discussion. God bless

That's a large part of why it doesn't sit well. A number of people so large that it is compared to the sand of the sea is startling in it's size. These people have lived under His perfect reign for a thousand years, and that many will revolt? It sounds like more will turn on Him than will abide in Him to me. I don't think that He doesn't mean a specific length of time when He says it, but on the flip side of that people will argue that the Day of the Lord is some indeterminate amount of time and for some reason most are ok with that. As it stands I am not saying it is not a thousand years, just that it doesn't sit well with me, which is why I have asked the Lord for understanding because no person has to this point provided a satisfactory answer as to how His reign can end in revolt. I am completely receptive to explanations and would prefer to be able to resolve the issue I see with it. I know God is not an author of confusion, that is what the enemy does, but the fact remains there are serious issues with a literal application. These are several serious issues as I see it. 1. He is perfect, so how can His reign with an iron scepter end in such a large revolt? 2. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, so how can animal sacrifices suddenly be re-instated? 3. Following the 7th trumpet we are told the time has come for rewarding the saints and prophets, judging the dead, and more. The 7th trumpet is the 3rd woe, which comes quickly after the 2nd woe. How can it come quickly with a thousand years in between the two? That's a larger gap than between the first two woes which at most is a 3 1/2 year period. Given all of these things, it becomes more and more problematic to take it as a literal thousand years. So that is why I have my doubts, because it appears to contradict scripture in so many other ways. I am fine with whatever the plan is, once He comes and takes me home what follows is going to be all good with me. I hope this gives you a better understanding of where I am coming from. God bless

They weren't supposed to though, someone needed to be here to spread the gospel message, right?

Well, I'm not sure it's a fair comparison because at that time they didn't understand what had happened, whereas we have all the information available to us.

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Comma or no comma, He still says that today he will be with Him in paradise. Then how can He bring them with Him out of heaven and then shortly after raise their bodies? Your argument makes no sense at all.

I agree with you on that, but it is a verse that appears amidst Peter discussing the end times. That's why I said we will see when the time comes. My issue with this being literal is based on the premise that Jesus could rule with an iron scepter and that His reign would end in revolt and rebellion. He is perfect after all, so that is why I have my doubts regarding a literal interpretation of a thousand years. Not something I want to debate, but would love to hear a suitable answer as to how His reign with an iron scepter could end no differently than man's has. I'm still waiting for the Lord to give me clarification one way or the other, and I understand that may never happen because as you said, we will not have all the answers. My faith rests in that whatever His plan is, it will be perfect. God bless

Amen brother, it should render it obsolete.

You're contradicting yourself my friend, same post from you, two opposing thought patterns. Where are clouds found? In the air? I understand the symbolism just fine, but you are having issues agreeing with yourself. For starters, I am not a post-tribber, so you are still confused as to my position. Secondly, what scripture do you have to say the marriage supper is in heaven? You must have missed this verse. Luke 12:41 Then Peter said to Him, “Lord, do You speak this parable only to us, or to all people?” So you are going to go ahead and leave the disciples out of the wedding too I guess. And Peter specifically asks if it was just for those He was speaking to or for everyone. So what was His answer to the question? The distinction He makes is between the faithful and the wicked, this is the only separation with Jesus. Believers vs non-believers, nothing in there regarding ethnicity. There is only one way to heaven, why is that so hard to understand when it is the gospel message? The marriage isn't just to the church, it is to all believers. There is only one bride, Jesus is not a polygamist. Hosea makes it clear that this includes the Jews, so either Hosea is a false prophet or you will have to rectify this fact to your theory. Hosea 2:16 “And it shall be, in that day,” Says the Lord, “That you will call Me ‘My Husband,’ And no longer call Me ‘My Master,’ You can't talk around that scripture, or the book of Hosea and the very purpose of it. Good grief, the man had to marry a harlot to illustrate this and you fail to see the relevance. Take a good look at the first three chapters of Hosea, seriously. The marriage supper is symbolic, and what it symbolizes is the eternal things, it takes place after it is finished. I Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For in fact the body is not one member but many. God bless

I'm not convinced it's a literal thousand years, we will see when the time comes. II Peter 3:8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Luke 23:39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.” 40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.” 43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” Simple, truth, straight from Jesus' lips. Is some false doctrine or myth or fable more important than scripture to you? God bless

If that was true then you could show your separate event. The fact is that every single time the gathering/ catching away is spoken of it is included with His coming. If not, show me the passage that doesn't. When did I say His coming is after the 70th week? Is Armageddon during the 70th week or not? As for where He will be prior to His coming, right here. Revelation 14:14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped. See above, and this is what follows. Notice anything similar to what happens with the fall of Babylon? Revelation 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe.” 19 So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses’ bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs. It's a parable about the faithful servant and the wicked servant, and you are taking that one verse out of context and not applying the entire passage. Luke 12:35 “Let your waist be girded and your lamps burning; 36 and you yourselves be like men who wait for their master, when he will return from the wedding, that when he comes and knocks they may open to him immediately. 37 Blessed are those servants whom the master, when he comes, will find watching. Assuredly, I say to you that he will gird himself and have them sit down to eat, and will come and serve them.38 And if he should come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. 39 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 40 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.” He is speaking about His coming, and once again attaches the symbol of the thief to it. Who is He speaking to? Luke 12:41 Then Peter said to Him, “Lord, do You speak this parable only to us, or to all people?” His disciples are who He is speaking to, are you implying that though they have been dead and with Him all this time that they were left out of the wedding? Peter isn't certain if the parable applies only to them, or to everyone, so by your rendering they are not invited to the wedding. On top of that, if you think that the marriage supper takes place before the end, then you are excluding His children that still remain on earth, specifically the Jewish remnant. Hosea makes it clear that you are wrong about that. Hosea 2:16 “And it shall be, in that day,” Says the Lord, “That you will call Me ‘My Husband,’ And no longer call Me ‘My Master,’ Hosea 2:19 “I will betroth you to Me forever; Yes, I will betroth you to Me In righteousness and justice, In lovingkindness and mercy; 20 I will betroth you to Me in faithfulness, And you shall know the Lord. All believers will be part of the bride, so your wedding can't take place until the very end. God bless

Is this symbolism? Luke 23:39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.” 40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.” 43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” or how about this... I Thessalonians 4: 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. That's when He descends from heaven, and who is that He is bringing with Him? God bless

John 14: 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. First, when Jesus says this to His disciples where are they? On earth or in the clouds? It makes absolutely no sense for Him to tell them He will come again to a place other than where He has been with them, especially when He is going to heaven to prepare them a place and saying He will come again. They are standing on earth, you are talking yourself out of something obvious. The last part of the verse is the scripture that you say I didn't have. Where He is, is where we will be, here is more scripture to support it. John 12:26 If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor. John 17:24 “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. As for I Thessalonians 4, look at this very carefully. I Thessalonians 4:13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. Notice what it says there in verse 14, who does He bring with Him? The deceased people, no mention of the living yet, right? What He is bringing with Him are the great multitude, the armies from heaven. I Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. Those who are alive and remain until His coming do not precede the dead, because the dead follow Him out of heaven just like it says in verse 14. I Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. The Lord descends with a shout, the voice of an archangel, and the trumpet.... the dead rise first. So again, bringing angels and the great multitude, archangels are fighters. I Thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Then the living are caught up (harpazo) to meet Him in the air. And again, the same as illustrated above, we shall always be with Him. Meaning the same thing as the other passages, wherever He goes, we go. And He is coming to earth to vanquish the enemy, right where He told the disciples He would come again, the earth. I agree with you by the way, John 14 and I Thessalonians 4 fit like a glove, just not the glove you have been suggesting. There is not one passage concerning the gathering / catching away that does not include His coming, that should tell you all you need to know. Show me one that doesn't then. God bless

Strange thought isn't it?

I would say that it has changed things, whether it is better or worse varies from person to person. In my experience what you get on social media is a lot of talk that is usually not true. I wouldn't trust anyone that isn't willing to meet in person. Personally I am all done with dating, if God wants someone in my life He will have to drop her in my lap, literally. I think neighbor went about it the right way. God bless

No, I see John saying that he is the friend of the Bridegroom. The voice calling out in the wilderness, and the fulfillment of that prophecy. That's why he says "this joy of mine is fulfilled." Because the Messiah has arrived. There is only one body, and John the Baptist is part of it. The only separation with Jesus is those who believe, and those who do not. God bless