How do we define Hebrewness or Jewishness??

[Yahsway]

I would like to comment on Jedi4Yahwehs statement about the New Covenant being for Israel and Not Many receiving it. I for one believe that Many did received it in the beginning.

In Acts 21:20 James tells Paul "You see, brother, how 'Many Myriads' of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law;"

But as Yod pointed out, European influences crept into the original church and pushed the believing Jews aside. Just how i see it.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

I would like to comment on Jedi4Yahwehs statement about the New Covenant being for Israel and Not Many receiving it. I for one believe that Many did received it in the beginning.

In Acts 21:20 James tells Paul "You see, brother, how 'Many Myriads' of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law;"

But as Yod pointed out, European influences crept into the original church and pushed the believing Jews aside. Just how i see it.

For the most part, I agree. I beleive there were millions of believeing Jews during those days and I am sure today that number is still very high and growing. God has always had a faithful remiant of Jews. The day of Penticost sparked a huge revival directly in Jerusalem. The bible speaks of thousands coming to Christ each day in Jerusalem, but for the most part Israel still remains blind to truth about the true Messiah...but one day that vail will be taken away. I dont think their blindness is due to european influence.

[Guest shiloh357]

I dont think their blindness is due to european influence.

It is due to European Christian brutality.

One thing to keep in mind is that there is whole other dynamic in play where Christian/Jewish relations are concerned in this day and age that did not exist in Paul's day.

The resitance to the gospel among the Jewish leadership was politcally motivated not theologically motivated. Many were were Roman puppets, and they enjoyed a rather lucrative relationship with Rome as long as they kept the peace.

The Messiah is a most notably in the OT a King. The last thing they wanted was a Messiah. To them Jesus and his followers comprised a loose cannon that would end up bringing down the wrath of Rome. Furthermore, their position and control over the masses was also at stake.

Jewish unbelief today is reinforced by many of the things done to Jews in Europe for nearly 1,700 years by those proclaiming Christ. I realize they were not true Christians per the teachings of the New Testament. But what must be understood is that many Jews are not theologically equipped to know the difference. 1,700 years of persecution at the hands of those who claimed to be Christians has done near irrepairable damage and almost complete silence of the church during the holocaust pretty much severed the lines of communication between the Church and the Jews.

What is worse is that Christians today simply want to sweep this under the rug, and pretend that it is history and is not worth talking about which again, only reinforces why Jews reject Christ today. It is not possible to project the ancient Pharisaical rejection of Jesus on Jews today. That is no longer the dymanic we are faced with.

The church has historically been one of the biggest obstacles to Jews getting saved.

[nebula]

For the most part, I agree. I beleive there were millions of believeing Jews during those days and I am sure today that number is still very high and growing. God has always had a faithful remiant of Jews. The day of Penticost sparked a huge revival directly in Jerusalem. The bible speaks of thousands coming to Christ each day in Jerusalem, but for the most part Israel still remains blind to truth about the true Messiah...but one day that vail will be taken away. I dont think their blindness is due to european influence.

At least the Jews have a promise of their blindness being removed.

Can't say the same for the Gentiles.

[Guest yod]

Can't say the same for the Gentiles.

that's in Isaiah 25:7

at the banquet of Messiah

[Guest yod]

for the most part Israel still remains blind to truth about the true Messiah...but one day that vail will be taken away. I dont think their blindness is due to european influence.

According to Paul, their "blindness in part" happened so that the gospel would come to us. Now it's our turn to bring it back.

Is there a way I can post a picture here? I'd like you guys to see a famous statue called the "juden-sau".

I think it first appeared about 10th century but has adorned at least 5 of the most prestigious churches of Europe over the next 5 centuries. Martin Luther was the last person to put one on his church that I know of.

This statue is 3 jews sucking from a pig while another jew has lifted the tail of this pig as if to do something lewd.

Now...can anyone here justify an offensive statue like that on a church???

This was never protested in Europe. Are you starting to get the picture of how jews were treated by the religion known as christianity in the history of Europe yet? This is not an exaggeration. I was at Martin Luther's church last August. It's still there.

[nebula]

Can't say the same for the Gentiles.

that's in Isaiah 25:7

at the banquet of Messiah

Oh my goodness!

That's cool!!!!!

On this mountain he will destroy the shroud that enfolds all peoples, the sheet that covers all nations;

[nebula]

Is there a way I can post a picture here? I'd like you guys to see a famous statue called the "juden-sau".

Not that I know of. But you can Google search images and post a link.

Ummm . . . yeah, that is very, very gross.

[Guest yod]

oh wow....it's still on 23 churches today

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judensau

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Are you starting to get the picture of how jews were treated by the religion known as Christianity in the history of Europe yet? This is not an exaggeration. I was at Martin Luther's church last August. It's still there.

I am not much of an historian, but I do know that much of known history is written by those who hate Jews and Christians alike. So I view history in light of this. Also, there has been alot of wrong done in history by those who claim they are "Christian" but that does not mean they are. Example the Roman Catholic Church who ordered Jews and Christians to be killed. Anyone who hates another person is not a servant of Christ.

Just to turn the tables for a second. Jews are guilty of persecution as well. They have along recorded history of this. The bible says they are the ones who killed the prophets and demanded the death of Christ. The early church is marred by Jews who persecuted Christians. The book of Acts testifies to this. Paul himself said he persecuted the Church and ordered many to be dragged away and killed prior to his faith in Christ.

Mat 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!

What good does it to blame each other and wallow in such peity and negativity. We cant change history. What we as believers should be focusing on what is good and what we have in common not what separates and divides us. Yahshua is the factor that binds all believers together and it doesn't matter if you Jew, Arab, Russian, European, Mexican, or Eskimo.