David Wilkerson see's a catastrophe coming

[EricH]

Don't we all know that "something" earth shaking is coming???

If America isn't judged for arrogance against the Lord, then He will have to apologize to Israel

amen brother.

I don't agree with that statement in its entirety. Israel is in a covenant relationship with God. They themselves agreed to the consequences of breaking the stipulations of the covenant. Other nations are in no such covenant agreement. So, while God will judge the nations, the judgement on Israel will be harder because they sinned knowingly.

This is confirmed in scripture:

... but wrath and indignation to those who are self-seeking and disobey the truth, but are obeying unrighteousness; affliction and distress for every human being who does evil, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek; (Rom 2:8-9 CSB)

When we talk about "nations" being judged, we are not talking about a nebulous corporate entity. We are talking about real people. If we as American believers are anticipating judgment on our country, the first place we had better look is to ourselves. Countries only change when the hearts of the people living in them change. If America is judged, I believe God will hold each of us who knew Him responsible. If we know judgement is coming, shouldn't we be attempting to reach people with the life changing reality of Jesus Christ like never before? Sometimes I sense that when we pronounce upcoming destruction it comes off to people like we are enjoying the prospect of it.

The only prophecies we know for sure are true are the ones encoded in scripture. Those are frightening enough and should move us to action (sharing Christ with our friends and neighbors in action and word). Remember, when the destruction comes, these will be real mothers and fathers, babies, children, teens, old, young and people of all ilks (some of whom we know and love).

What the significance of Pastor Wilkerson's words are, I don't know and have no way of knowing. Simply looking at his background does not ensure his propecy is true or not true. The prophecies I read in the OT and NT are motivation enough for me. I don't feel any call to lay up food for myself or purchase generators or any of the like. What I do feel called to do is be obedient in my call as a minister of the gospel like never before. If God does bring judgement (or a catastophe comes that is not related to God's judgement), hopefully I will minister to people in the midst of it. I pray for our nations leaders every day.

A final thought. God will never owe us an apology for anything He does or does not do. If God chose to demonstrate grace and not judge a nation for reasons of His own, we can rest assured it would be completely just and right. For us to set up conditions that we use to declare God right or wrong seems to me to be risky. God's ways are not our ways no are His thoughts our thoughts.

[traveller]

When we talk about "nations" being judged, we are not talking about a nebulous corporate entity. We are talking about real people. If we as American believers are anticipating judgment on our country, the first place we had better look is to ourselves. Countries only change when the hearts of the people living in them change. If America is judged, I believe God will hold each of us who knew Him responsible. If we know judgement is coming, shouldn't we be attempting to reach people with the life changing reality of Jesus Christ like never before? Sometimes I sense that when we pronounce upcoming destruction it comes off to people like we are enjoying the prospect of it.

The only prophecies we know for sure are true are the ones encoded in scripture. Those are frightening enough and should move us to action (sharing Christ with our friends and neighbors in action and word). Remember, when the destruction comes, these will be real mothers and fathers, babies, children, teens, old, young and people of all ilks (some of whom we know and love).

Erich - yes - we should be attempting to reach people with the prospect of judgement - but this is whether or not our nation is to be judged today, tomorrow or a thousand years from now. Regardless of whether judgement comes as a nation or as an individual, people are lost and need a Savior and that is enough of an incentive for me. Absolutely there will be real lives lost - that's why we are to be in prayer for the nation, the people, our families. Thats' why we go to them and reach out to them as a lifelong ministry. Who do you think is happy at the prospect of a national disaster that could take lives? I look forward to the return of our Lord, but not to the destruction of so many lives.

A final thought. God will never owe us an apology for anything He does or does not do. If God chose to demonstrate grace and not judge a nation for reasons of His own, we can rest assured it would be completely just and right. For us to set up conditions that we use to declare God right or wrong seems to me to be risky. God's ways are not our ways no are His thoughts our thoughts.

I agree with this.

[refugepsa91]

I don't agree with that statement in its entirety. Israel is in a covenant relationship with God. They themselves agreed to the consequences of breaking the stipulations of the covenant. Other nations are in no such covenant agreement. So, while God will judge the nations, the judgement on Israel will be harder because they sinned knowingly.

This is confirmed in scripture:

... but wrath and indignation to those who are self-seeking and disobey the truth, but are obeying unrighteousness; affliction and distress for every human being who does evil, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek; (Rom 2:8-9 CSB)

I don't see that Israel will get judged "harder" I see them getting judged first.

A final thought. God will never owe us an apology for anything He does or does not do. If God chose to demonstrate grace and not judge a nation for reasons of His own, we can rest assured it would be completely just and right. For us to set up conditions that we use to declare God right or wrong seems to me to be risky. God's ways are not our ways no are His thoughts our thoughts.

I'm absolutely positive that the comment about God apologizing, was a totally "human" figure of speech and NOT intended to imply that God owed us anything....period.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

I would only add that as a Nation on the whole we were founded on Christian principles and by and large on the principles of the Judeo/Christian God revealed in the Bible.

Our Constitution speaks of this Creator and by and large when polled we state that we are Christians. I believe that makes us more accountable as a Nation and having once known God and now finding ourselves drastically turning from Him leaves us in a perilous situation. Without His Divine Providence over this Nation as we have sought and experienced in the past we will find ourselves very uncomfortable. That Judgment stands, you will either live by His Word or live outisde of His Word. Yet, you cannot state that you believe and then live like hell, because then, IMO, you are making a false witness and bearing His name in vain. God will find you out by reason of your own sin.

I'm absolutely positive that the comment about God apologizing, was a totally "human" figure of speech and NOT intended to imply that God owed us anything....period.

I totally agree that this was the sentiment.

Erich - yes - we should be attempting to reach people with the prospect of judgement - but this is whether or not our nation is to be judged today, tomorrow or a thousand years from now. Regardless of whether judgement comes as a nation or as an individual, people are lost and need a Savior and that is enough of an incentive for me. Absolutely there will be real lives lost - that's why we are to be in prayer for the nation, the people, our families. Thats' why we go to them and reach out to them as a lifelong ministry. Who do you think is happy at the prospect of a national disaster that could take lives? I look forward to the return of our Lord, but not to the destruction of so many lives.

Agreed.

A final thought. God will never owe us an apology for anything He does or does not do. If God chose to demonstrate grace and not judge a nation for reasons of His own, we can rest assured it would be completely just and right. For us to set up conditions that we use to declare God right or wrong seems to me to be risky. God's ways are not our ways no are His thoughts our thoughts.

Amen.

There's no denying the situation that most Western European Nations find them self in is directly related to their turn from God. Without God as their guiding principle Nations will flounder like a drunk man. There's also no denying that the Western Nations as they exist today have thrived and advanced due to their Faith and foundations in God as Christianity advanced through the West.

We have been Blessed and I Fear to see what life will be like without that Blessing in this Nation. I believe that America no longer Fears God.

Peace,

Dave

[EricH]

Erich - yes - we should be attempting to reach people with the prospect of judgement - but this is whether or not our nation is to be judged today, tomorrow or a thousand years from now. Regardless of whether judgement comes as a nation or as an individual, people are lost and need a Savior and that is enough of an incentive for me. Absolutely there will be real lives lost - that's why we are to be in prayer for the nation, the people, our families. Thats' why we go to them and reach out to them as a lifelong ministry. Who do you think is happy at the prospect of a national disaster that could take lives? I look forward to the return of our Lord, but not to the destruction of so many lives.

I did not say that I thought anyone was happy about it. I said it comes off that way to people (perception). Namely those we are trying to reach. Do they sense our sorrow for them, or our anger. How is our concern for them expressed. I know for me personally I have been drawn to ask God to give me the ability to share my faith every day. Surveys right now show that less that 20 percent of all believers share their faith on a regular basis. We know that evangelistic growth in churches in the US is all but at a stand-still.

When you say that people are lost, and in need of a saviour I agree. But isn't a big part of being lost, separation from God because of judgement for sin? Jesus actually encouraged us to be vigilant in light of the coming judgement.

[EricH]

I don't see that Israel will get judged "harder" I see them getting judged first.

The idea that Israel was given privileges but also greater accountability because of the covenants is I think pretty widely accepted. The greek word "first" carries with it not only the sence of order, but priority. Israel had many advantages, but also with the advantages comes greater accountability and consequence.

[eve]

Check out http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=...mp;pageId=91296

[traveller]

When you say that people are lost, and in need of a saviour I agree. But isn't a big part of being lost, separation from God because of judgement for sin? Jesus actually encouraged us to be vigilant in light of the coming judgement.

I agree. And that's what we've been saying as well.

[WayneB]

Given that I don't believe He is claiming to be inerrant or inspired, we will just have to wait and see.

Wise approach (wait & see).

The ONLY inerrant & inspired prophetic word is the Word of God! The problem is too many people ignore HIS word.

IF we listen to HIS voice, we will be prepared for whatever comes our way. Otherwise, we must conitnue to live each day out as if it is our last and just place our TRUST in HIM.

[traveller]

Given that I don't believe He is claiming to be inerrant or inspired, we will just have to wait and see.

Wise approach (wait & see).

The ONLY inerrant & inspired prophetic word is the Word of God! The problem is too many people ignore HIS word.

IF we listen to HIS voice, we will be prepared for whatever comes our way. Otherwise, we must conitnue to live each day out as if it is our last and just place our TRUST in HIM.

Amen brother.