Death penalty

[ParanoidAndroid]

When a judge passes the death sentence upon a murderer, it is not the judge that is condemning the murderer to eternal punishment. Only God can do that. At this time today, no one except Satan and his angels have already been judged and sentenced by God to the lake of fire to perish forever. In the mean time, while God's people have been entrusted responsibility on earth, we are not to allow chaos to reign in the streets with murderers on the lose. And a murderer who will not change, does not deserve to live amongst us. I'm not just talking about accidental manslaughter cases; I'm talking about some really serious workers of evil, like the Iceman (HBO special about a mafia hitman years ago, who is being kept in prison only because criminologists think he may help them solve something like 100 murders).

And if the person convicted is actually innocent???? What then? Does saying "sorry" alter the fact that the person is still dead?

As I said, in theory I agree with Capital Punishment. But unless the one carrying out such a penalty is a being with the ability to look directly into our hearts to decide our guilt or innocence, then the premise is flawed. Therefore, unless the Judge is God Himself, the practical application of the Death Penalty cannot be used! Period.

~ PA

[EricH]

Jesus teaches us about forgiveness. So how biblical is the death penalty

Jesus' statements regarding forgiveness were in the context of interpersonal relationships not the government enforcing laws. God gives governments the power, authority, and responsibility to punish people who do wrong.

For government is God's servant to you for good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, because it does not carry the sword for no reason. For government is God's servant, an avenger that brings wrath on the one who does wrong.

Romans 13:4 CSB

We as individuals should not take the law into our own hands and exact vengance

[Guest LadyC]

believer, what a horrible experience! my heart goes out to you and your family, and i pray that your daughter heals both emtionally and physically.

that being said, this thread is not about our personal views on the death penalty, it's about the biblical perspective. God is a just God. He instituted the death penalty, and yet He is also the one who loves unconditionally and forgives completely. but loving and forgiving still demands justice.

all the NT passages that people like to use as opposition to the death penalty do not apply to legal justice. they apply to personal vengeance. God gave the authority to governments to enact the death penalty when necessary... imperfect governments consisting of imperfect humans. God knew what He was doing, so it's not right to use human fallibility and error as an excuse to abolish such a consequence. facts are, if the government was to carry out justice the way God intended it to be carried out (without decades of appeals, etc.) the crime rate would be significantly lower, because God, in His infinite wisdom, knows best.

it's also not right to put God in a box by saying that execution somehow takes away a person's chance at salvation. a person's days are numbered from the day he is conceived, and God knows the number of His days. every person is given every opportunity by God to come to know Him.

it's natural to have all these conflicting feelings about the death penalty, because our human brains are not capable of wrapping around the bigger picture. God doesn't tell us to act on emotion. in fact, He warns us that our hearts can be easily deceived. He demands obedience even when we don't "feel" like it's the right thing to do.

[Believer1997]

Thank you Lady C and yes, she is a remarkable young woman who has forgiven and moved on with her life. I have no problem with obedience to God. I do, however, have questions regarding how the death penalty is applied and to whom. As I said, I used to be a staunch proponent of this punishment - and now ... I have some doubts about the mistakes that have been made in the cases of people who were innocent of the charges. My state is a death penalty state and have put many people to death who were convicted of horrendous crimes.... to date, I'm not aware that any of these people have been proven innocent after the fact. I simply would not want innocent blood on my hands.... that is my stance. I would prefer to let our God handle the punishment and retribution. I KNOW HE does not make errors.

[Guest LadyC]

i understand what you're saying believer. as i said, i think the thread is supposed to be about the biblical perspective, not a personal perspective. but from a personal POV, i'd like for the death penalty to only be enacted if there is indisputable DNA evidence of guilt. and yes, there are innocent people on death row that have no business being there... darlie routier for one. but that's not the point... God is in control. He knows that imperfect people make up the government, He knew that mistakes would be made, and yet HE gave them the authority to carry out the punishment anyway, mistakes or not. we can't see the bigger picture. we can't fathom why God would require the death penalty as a consequence of criminal behaviour even if the person was wrongly convicted. the only thing we can know for sure is that God IS aware that mistakes are made, and yet He is still in total control of the situation. it may be a human that pushes the buttons on those three IV's that inject the lethal chemicals, but GOD ALONE has the entire situation in His hands. don't think for a minute that God couldn't stop an execution, or even a wrong conviction. He can! why He doesn't is one of those questions i'm sure that many people will be asking Him when we stand before Him. but He sees far more than the rest of us sees, and He orchestrates everything according to His plan, including allowing things to occur that shouldn't.

[Ovedya]

Jesus teaches us about forgiveness. So how biblical is the death penalty

I would find it extremely hard to forgive a man like Josef Fritzl, who imprisoned his own daughter in his basement for 24 years, raped, and sired several children by her. Human justice demands death for a man like this. God's justice is his own to mete out.

[Believer1997]

i understand what you're saying believer. as i said, i think the thread is supposed to be about the biblical perspective, not a personal perspective. but from a personal POV, i'd like for the death penalty to only be enacted if there is indisputable DNA evidence of guilt. and yes, there are innocent people on death row that have no business being there... darlie routier for one. but that's not the point... God is in control. He knows that imperfect people make up the government, He knew that mistakes would be made, and yet HE gave them the authority to carry out the punishment anyway, mistakes or not. we can't see the bigger picture. we can't fathom why God would require the death penalty as a consequence of criminal behaviour even if the person was wrongly convicted. the only thing we can know for sure is that God IS aware that mistakes are made, and yet He is still in total control of the situation. it may be a human that pushes the buttons on those three IV's that inject the lethal chemicals, but GOD ALONE has the entire situation in His hands. don't think for a minute that God couldn't stop an execution, or even a wrong conviction. He can! why He doesn't is one of those questions i'm sure that many people will be asking Him when we stand before Him. but He sees far more than the rest of us sees, and He orchestrates everything according to His plan, including allowing things to occur that shouldn't.

Believe it or not I do understand your point of view. I've read and re-read the Biblical perspective. And yes, I agree there will be many questions when we stand before Him. It is my personal goal, as a Christian, to be able to tell Him that I have not taken anyone's life .... not out of disobedience to His Word, but out of the belief that I am not worthy to make those judgements. Blessings.

[Guest LadyC]

well, the majority of us will never be in that situation of having to take another person's life. and for that, i'm grateful, because i wouldn't want to have that burden resting on my shoulders either!

[JCISGD]

The one difference i see in carrying out a death sentence in todays world is that in OT it was only done on testimony of two or more eye witnesses.

So then if the person was wronly put to death, the guilt would rest upon the false witnesses, whom God would deal with.

And the innocent person OT would have been with the LORD.

The death penalty must also be swift to be a detterent.

So i the death penalty today is at the least misapplied.

[Believer1997]

well, the majority of us will never be in that situation of having to take another person's life. and for that, i'm grateful, because i wouldn't want to have that burden resting on my shoulders either!

I also, pray that I never have that burden. I can tell you, God has really worked amazing wonders with me. I had so much.... I can't even describe what it was - rage.... and I used to look upon victims who have suffered at the hands of others and I just was not dealing well with it.... God has taken so much of that inner suffering from me and replaced it with forgiveness and some understanding. He is truly an Awesome God.