Marries her who is divorced

[Smalcald]

Every man believes his own way, but that does not make it right. Many will say "Lord Lord " ,but He will say depart from me you workers of iniquity (sinners).

Interestingly many today are quick to cry legalism, yet it was "workers of inquity" who Jesus said depart from me.

That is why although miracles etc are good, they are not our standard but holiness is.

I totally agree holiness is our goal and standard in our effort to please and follow Christ. There is a reason however He saved the adulterers, and thief

[fireproof_always]

Hmmm...It seems like rather than debate the topic at hand we've reached a point where we mostly only argue against each other's beliefs and statements. Also, there's been a considerable amount of completely irrelevant and even, as OneLight said, disturbing material presented. I'm afraid it may be that the likelihood of a respectful conversation has become nil. JCISGD, LadyC, OneLight; I found your points and speculations for the most part to be interesting and mature, combative while remaining as considerate as possible when disagreeing with someone. I enjoyed our discussion but unless things clear up a bit I'd rather leave it alone. Hope to talk with you all in another topic. God Bless.

[KC02]

I admit that it is disturbing. That was Isaiah's purpose.

The Douay-Rheims Bible

And we are all become as one unclean, and all our justices as the rag of a menstruous woman: and we have all fallen as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

The King James translators used a euphemism. That is not what Isaiah said or meant.

(Isa 64:6 [KJV])

But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Isaiah said our holiness was only as good as a used female hygiene product. Nothing was more vile to a Jew. In other words our righteousness is the most vile thing imaginable.

Your description of what Isaiah said is very sick and disturbing. This is not what this scripture is saying. I have asked that it be removed.

Edited March 28, 2009 by KC02

[Guest LadyC]

i used to find the analogy disturbing too, and that verse and it's meaning was discussed here at length a few years ago (long before kc was around) and apparently, that is exactly what was meant by filthy rags.

[KC02]

I should have quoted from a more literal translation than the KJV in the first place. Just think how much more disturbing this must have been in Isaiah's day!

i used to find the analogy disturbing too, and that verse and it's meaning was discussed here at length a few years ago (long before kc was around) and apparently, that is exactly what was meant by filthy rags.

[JCISGD]

I don't think you are looking for an honest discussion on divorce. So why waste everyone's time if you insist on holding on to your presuppositions?

Being married or divorced fifty times has nothing to do with holiness.

(Isa 64:6 [KJV])

But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Isaiah said our holiness was only as good as a used female hygiene product. Nothing was more vile to a Jew. In other words our righteousness is the most vile thing imaginable.

I don't care about your fake holiness nor your proof texting legalism. If God doesn't forgive sins, we need to all give up right now and head to the bar.

Didn't Jesus give an exception for divorce? Didn't Paul show that Jesus' exception wasn't exhaustive? If you don't feel that you can remarry then don't. But don't judge others who have found a new life and the liberty to live it. That isn't your job.

Every man believes his own way, but that does not make it right. Many will say "Lord Lord " ,but He will say depart from me you workers of iniquity (sinners).

Interestingly many today are quick to cry legalism, yet it was "workers of inquity" who Jesus said depart from me.

That is why although miracles etc are good, they are not our standard but holiness is.

Hi KC i think you misunderstand my intentions somewhat there my friend, I did not speak of holiness in relation to D/R but to point out that holiness was the only way to know if we are truly in the way, as some who cry legalism are only trying to cover up their sin.

I think your comment above about fake holiness is unmerited as i did not qualify what this is, and i certainlt did not mean someone D/R was could not be.

Sorry if any feel that was irrelevant or that i went off topic, i am genuinely undecided and troubled by this issue and am on the WF to get a wider veiw about things i can not resolve in my church.

This is not about judging and perhaps it should be in controversial topic`s as it certainly is that. Im sorry if you feel judged, how do you think non Christians feel just because we say Jesus is the only way? Should we not preach the gospel if its true, likewise i am trying to arrive at the truth and wish to discuss it here.

Peace to you.

[OneLight]

I admit that it is disturbing. That was Isaiah's purpose.

The Douay-Rheims Bible

And we are all become as one unclean, and all our justices as the rag of a menstruous woman: and we have all fallen as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

The King James translators used a euphemism. That is not what Isaiah said or meant.

(Isa 64:6 [KJV])

But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Isaiah said our holiness was only as good as a used female hygiene product. Nothing was more vile to a Jew. In other words our righteousness is the most vile thing imaginable.

Your description of what Isaiah said is very sick and disturbing. This is not what this scripture is saying. I have asked that it be removed.

I have to admit that I was wrong in what I said. After further studies, that is what it meant. Thanks for taking the time to explain and for those who I may have led in the wrong direction, or to you, if I have caused you any grief or hurt your reputation, I apologize.

[KC02]

I don't think we will all be on the same page about the subject until Christ comes back. I don't see it nearly as black and white as others do. For example, what about folks who remarried 10 times before they were saved? Are we saying God can't or won't forgive them? If so, what was the point of Christ's death on the cross?

I can find no instruction in the NT or early church history of telling people to go back to their first spouse after they married another, or to divorce again to remedy a remarriage. I also don't see any perpetual sin in remarriage. These are all conclusions based upon personal interpretation, not plain talk in the Bible.

Is a perpetual sin worse than a single instance of sin? Doesn't God forgive all sin?

I'm afraid we are trying to set the bar too high for sinners to be saved, and saved people to remain so. I've been to churches like that. Some of the Pentecostal Holiness people seemed to think only they would go to heaven because of their high holiness standards.

I'm saying bologna. If our person holiness was enough to get to heaven, Jesus would not have had to come and die. He came for people with their failed marriages and failed lives. That is the whole point of the Gospel.

I don't think you are looking for an honest discussion on divorce. So why waste everyone's time if you insist on holding on to your presuppositions?

Being married or divorced fifty times has nothing to do with holiness.

(Isa 64:6 [KJV])

But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Isaiah said our holiness was only as good as a used female hygiene product. Nothing was more vile to a Jew. In other words our righteousness is the most vile thing imaginable.

I don't care about your fake holiness nor your proof texting legalism. If God doesn't forgive sins, we need to all give up right now and head to the bar.

Didn't Jesus give an exception for divorce? Didn't Paul show that Jesus' exception wasn't exhaustive? If you don't feel that you can remarry then don't. But don't judge others who have found a new life and the liberty to live it. That isn't your job.

Every man believes his own way, but that does not make it right. Many will say "Lord Lord " ,but He will say depart from me you workers of iniquity (sinners).

Interestingly many today are quick to cry legalism, yet it was "workers of inquity" who Jesus said depart from me.

That is why although miracles etc are good, they are not our standard but holiness is.

Hi KC i think you misunderstand my intentions somewhat there my friend, I did not speak of holiness in relation to D/R but to point out that holiness was the only way to know if we are truly in the way, as some who cry legalism are only trying to cover up their sin.

I think your comment above about fake holiness is unmerited as i did not qualify what this is, and i certainlt did not mean someone D/R was could not be.

Sorry if any feel that was irrelevant or that i went off topic, i am genuinely undecided and troubled by this issue and am on the WF to get a wider veiw about things i can not resolve in my church.

This is not about judging and perhaps it should be in controversial topic`s as it certainly is that. Im sorry if you feel judged, how do you think non Christians feel just because we say Jesus is the only way? Should we not preach the gospel if its true, likewise i am trying to arrive at the truth and wish to discuss it here.

Peace to you.

[KC02]

Fine. If you can answer the questions in my post above, I will admit that the Bible is perfectly plain on the subject.

We can clearly see what scripture says on the subject of divorce and re-marriage. If someone divorces for any reason other than fornication and marries someone else, both people in the new marriage are guilty of adultery in the eyes of God. The only other possible Biblical exception is found in Corinthians where Paul speaks of a situation where two unsaved people enter into marriage, and one gets saved and the other does not. If the unbeliever departs from the believer because of their new found faith, the believer is not in bondage in such situations.

That being said, the question arises over someone who is divorced and re-married for reasons other than Biblical ones. Should they split up to avoid a permanent state of adultery? Will God forgive them if they repent and accept their marriage? All I can give is a personal opinion. Malachi makes it clear that God hates divorce, or putting away. As such, I don't think he would want to see a second marriage split up that will likely lead to a third marriage, or perhaps, fornication. It is my view that adultery is not an unpardonable sin, so the best course of action for someone in this spot is to confess their sins and commit their marriage to the Lord, till death do they part. On the other hand, if someone is divorced for reasons other than fornication, they should not marry someone else. To do so would be to commit wilful sin. Again, this is just my opinion. All those in this situation should seek the Lord until they get peace about it themselves, because God is our ultimate judge.

[KC02]

I don't have much of a reputation anyway It aint no biggee!

I admit that it is disturbing. That was Isaiah's purpose.

The Douay-Rheims Bible

And we are all become as one unclean, and all our justices as the rag of a menstruous woman: and we have all fallen as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

The King James translators used a euphemism. That is not what Isaiah said or meant.

(Isa 64:6 [KJV])

But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Isaiah said our holiness was only as good as a used female hygiene product. Nothing was more vile to a Jew. In other words our righteousness is the most vile thing imaginable.

Your description of what Isaiah said is very sick and disturbing. This is not what this scripture is saying. I have asked that it be removed.

I have to admit that I was wrong in what I said. After further studies, that is what it meant. Thanks for taking the time to explain and for those who I may have led in the wrong direction, or to you, if I have caused you any grief or hurt your reputation, I apologize.