Bread of Life is Hard to Swallow

[OneLight]

God did not leave a bible when he went to heaven, he left his apostles and his oral tradition. The bible came hundreds of years later.

That's not 100% correct.

The Scriptures were already there - in written form. We now call this the Old Testament. But it was these Scriptures that Jesus quoted from when tempted by Satan, it was these Scriptures that prophesied of His coming, and it was these Scriptures that the Apostles referred to in their Letters.

So, to be correct, you would need to say: "God did not leave a Bible as we know it when he went to Heaven; he left the Old Testament Scriptures, His apostles and His oral tradition. The New Testament came hundreds of years later."

Well, I would have to add that the book that we call the Bible was not until someone put it together. The original manuscripts for the NT were around way before that. From what I have read, here are the approximate dates they were written.

30's: Gospel of Matthew

40's: James, Gospel of Mark, Gospel of John (main body of Gospel) (the prologue/epilogue to Gospel not completed until after 95 A.D.)

50's: 1Thessalonians, 2Thessalonians, Galatians, 1Corinthians, 2Corinthians, Romans, Gospel of Luke

60's: Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, Philemon, Hebrews, Acts, 1Timothy. Titus, 1John, 2John, 3John, 1Peter, 2Peter, Jude, 2Timothy

95 A.D. : Book of Revelation

[Guest]

.... God did not leave a bible when he went to heaven....

Dear Mike

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

John 3:36

Did You Know There Are Folk Strutting About Mocking The Holy Bible

"But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren."

"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."

"Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ."

Matthew 23:8-10

Disrespecting Jesus, Ones Who Having No Fear Of God Say To The World "Look At Me I Am Holy I Am Salvation"

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

Isaiah 64:6

Stomping On The Word Of God And Chastising Those Who Believe In The LORD Jesus Christ

"Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you."

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me."

John 15:3-4

Even Loving The Philosophies Of Men Over The Sure Words Of God

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."

Colossians 2:8-9

And Proudly Placing Their Own Words Over Those Of God

"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."

Deuteronomy 4:2

Saying You Should Be Ashamed Of The Bible, I Am

"Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels."

Mark 8:38

Oh Mike Mike, It Is Sadly True

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:"

"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

Matthew 7:13-15

I Pray, Don't Let It Be You

>>>>>()<<<<<

See Jesus

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

John 14:6

Believe Jesus

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"

John 11:25

Confess Jesus As LORD

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

"For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Romans 10:9-10

And Be Blessed Beloved

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Joe

"Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts." Jeremiah 15:16

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Worthy is a non denominational Ministry. There are many denominations who participate here and while we all may differ in what our denominations hold to be True about how to practice our Faith. What we do hold to be True and our main focus is Jesus Christ and His accomplished work of Salvation on our behalf. This starts and ends all of the discussions having to do with our Faith. At the center of heaven is Christ Jesus and His Bride which He has chosen for Himself.

That Bride wears no label save the new name that He will give her.

Let's keep the Judging down to the only One who Truly can Judge our hearts and has earned, as well as, received all of the Glory.

Catholics are welcome to fellow here but they will not lift up their denomination above the focus of the Ministry.

Peace,

Dave

[Guest]

....You have been stunted in your faith....

Thanks For The Warnings Dear One

"And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:"

Acts 14:15

I Do Need To Eat More Of The True Bread Of Life Dear Mike

"But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

Matthew 4:4

And Yes Sir Mike, God's Word Is Surely The Best Food To Build Up Ones Faith In Jesus

"But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

Jeremiah 15:16

Faith In The Real And The Biblical And The Powerful LORD Jesus Christ

"And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle."

"His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;"

"And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters."

Revelation 1:13-15

Soon To Return To His Beloved Israel And To Make His Throne In Jerusalem Town

"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war."

"His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself."

Revelation 19:11-12

And After A 1,000 Years The Same LORD Jesus Will Judge (Don't You Just Want To Shout With Joy For His Blood That Covers?)

"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them."

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

Revelation 20:11-12

And Then The City Build Without Hands Comes Down Into The New Heavens And The New Earth (Our Home - At Last, Hallelujah!)

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

Revelation 21:1-2

And Yet Dear Mike, There Is Still Hope For Folk Who Teach Vain Works Of Self-Righteousness

"And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely."

Revelation 21:6

Even Folk That Deny The Sure Wrath To Come

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

"For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

Revelation 22:14-15

And The Spirit And The Church Says Come

"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."

Revelation 22:16-17

Mike, God's Calling

[Massorite]

One thing that does raise a question in your posts is why do you keep referring to Socrates? The Holy Spirit is He who should be working in you to guide you, not Socrates.

I happen to enjoy reading Plato's dialogs of Socrates. If you find something untrue in the words of his that i quoted, please let me know. Do you think a person should live an unexamined life?

Nope, I just think that His words are the ones we should be studying, not any of mans. I find more wisdom in Gods words than I would ever find in mans.

That is the problem with Sola Scriptura, the early Church Fathers used oral as well as written. Funny tho, that to the early Church fathers and Christians alike, the bible recounted the history of the church and of Christ, it wasn't the sole means of knowing, understanding, and promoting God until the protestants cut off all the branches of the tree and held fast to the trunk.

God did not leave a bible when he went to heaven, he left his apostles and his oral tradition. The bible came hundreds of years later. So when you feel the need dear protestants to hold onto your bibles, please remember to thank the Council of Carthage for giving you that book.

Do you have something against protestants?

You are very wrong about that Michael. The old testament was written and completed before Jesus came on the scene. All of the first four gospel were written before the writers of those books died. The book of Revelation was written in or before 96 AD. Then there is Paul who wrote how many biblical books before he died? The new testament was written and completed within the first 100 years of the early church. The Council of Carthage had to have all of the books that are in the bible today and several that are not in the bible today before the could So I don't know where you got your info about when the bible was written but it is for a fact erroneous. Perhaps you should do a little more research before you make uneducated statements.

What makes you think that the early church leaders weren't Christians? Best I can tell they were all Believers. By the way, I don't call anybody Father as in Father God because the bible commands us not to do that. Matthew 23:9 "And CALL no man father upon the earth : for One is your Father, Which is in heaven"

They were NOT early church fathers they were Early Church Leaders.

Could you please tell me what kind of or what are these "BRANCHES" you are talking about?

History tells us that the first big chisum between the Roman church and the Jerusalem church was when the Roman church decided to invent a date for the birth of Jesus that was dated on the same date as more then one pagan feastival date.

In May 251 the Council of Carthage met and decided to deal with or dicipline the Lapsi according to their individual guilt. The Lapsi were those Christians who caved and renounced their faith under hard persecution from the Roman authorities but repented and came back to their faith later.

So inspite of the fact that they had repented before God and retuned to Him the Council of Carthage had no forgiveness in their hearts and decided to punish those brothers and sisters and prosecuted them for commiting certain unscripteral acts. Kickem when their up. Kickem when their down.

In 255 and 256 the Council of Carthage pronounced agianst the full body immersion baptism and called it heretical.

In 348 The Council of Carthage declared against the rebaptism ofanyone who had been baptized in the name of the trinity. Who were they to dictate what only God knows. Which is the condition of the heart.

In 397 the Council of Carthage authorized several book that could be included in the bible. The books that we don't have today that they left in the bible are 2 out of 4 books of kings, two two books of Paralipomenon, 4 other books of Solomon, 2 books of Prophets, Tobias, Judith, 2 books of Esdras, 2 books of Machabees. Good job Carthage.

[nebula]

God did not leave a bible when he went to heaven, he left his apostles and his oral tradition. The bible came hundreds of years later.

That's not 100% correct.

The Scriptures were already there - in written form. We now call this the Old Testament. But it was these Scriptures that Jesus quoted from when tempted by Satan, it was these Scriptures that prophesied of His coming, and it was these Scriptures that the Apostles referred to in their Letters.

So, to be correct, you would need to say: "God did not leave a Bible as we know it when he went to Heaven; he left the Old Testament Scriptures, His apostles and His oral tradition. The New Testament came hundreds of years later."

Well, I would have to add that the book that we call the Bible was not until someone put it together. The original manuscripts for the NT were around way before that. From what I have read, here are the approximate dates they were written.

30's: Gospel of Matthew

40's: James, Gospel of Mark, Gospel of John (main body of Gospel) (the prologue/epilogue to Gospel not completed until after 95 A.D.)

50's: 1Thessalonians, 2Thessalonians, Galatians, 1Corinthians, 2Corinthians, Romans, Gospel of Luke

60's: Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, Philemon, Hebrews, Acts, 1Timothy. Titus, 1John, 2John, 3John, 1Peter, 2Peter, Jude, 2Timothy

95 A.D. : Book of Revelation

Silly me!

You are, of course, correct.

[littlejoe]

Dear Michael I am sorry that my post to Socrates4 ruffled your feathers that was not my intention. I have no problems with your beliefs as far as the Eucharist is concerned.In my post I stated they were not mine. I no longer walk in the tradition of the Catholic Church,that does not mean it it wrong for someone else,just not me. I don't need to dig futher or research more on the validity of Eucharist because my heart does not accuse me. I was only explaining to Socrates what I thought was the difference between the two different Traditions. If you want to e-mail me I think we can do this throuogh this board.

Love in Christ littlejoe

[HAZARD]

Hi, i'm hoping anyone can help me figure this out. After talking to some thoughtful and respectful Roman Catholics, i'm a bit confused. They tell me that when Jesus said

"I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty."

(John 6:35)

He was talking about the bread and wine they eat and drink at church. The bread and wine is Him!

Please help me figure out the truth. I'm not sure what to believe any more.

Hi 'socrates4jesus'

Transubstantiation (real presence) is a false doctrine. Transubstantiation is a false doctrine because Jesus is not a liar: In Mt 26:29 after Jesus had said, "this is my blood" and prayed, he still referred to the contents as, "fruit of the vine". If transubstantiation of the juice into blood had occurred, as both Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches say it was at this time, then Jesus would never have referred to it as "fruit of the vine' but rather "blood". This proves that when Jesus said "take eat & drink" He LITERALLY gave them bread and juice. In like manner, Paul also refers to the elements of the Lord's Supper as "eat this bread and drink the cup" in 1 Cor 11:26 after they should be transubstantiated.

The Mass never was and never will be a Sacrifice for mankind. The only sacrifice ever offered for mankind was the sacrifice of our Lord and saviour, Jesus Christ Himself on the cross the very day He died.

The Catholic Mass offered every day world wide was developed gradually as a sacrifice in the Catholic Church itself, and it's attendance was made obligatory for all Catholics in the 11th Century after Christ. What we know, and what Catholic believers for some reason do not know is that the Gospel teaches that "The Sacrifice of Christ was offered Once, and for All," and is not to be repeated, but only commemorated in the Lords Supper (1 Cor. 11; Heb. 7:27; 9:26-28; 10:10-14).

The supposed mirical of transubstantiation which allegedly happens during the Catholic Mass, sadly, is a man made invention and was declared and decreed by Pope Innocent 111 in the year 1215 A.D. By this man made doctrin the priest "PRETENDS" to perform a daily miracle by changing a wafer of bread into the body of Christ, and then he pretends to eat Him alive in the presence of the people during the Mass. The Gospel condems such adsurdities. Holy Communion is simply a memorial of the sacrifice of Christ (Luke 22:19,, 20; John 6:35; 1 Cor:26). The adoration of the wafer (HOST) was invented by Pope Honorius in 1220 A.D. The Catholic Church also made it obligatory to have communion at least once per week, and even every day when possible. Some priests say mass four and even five times a day in some parishes and thereby have communion four or five times per day.

Malachi 1:11 speaks of a pure offering; the imperfections of the propitiation effected at Mass prove it doesn't mean the Mass (Hebrews 13:15-16; Romans 12:1). Cardinal Newman admitted that many of the additions (Bells, Vestments, Incense) were of pagan origin; some scholars trace these back to the Old Testament priesthood (see Acts 15:10).

The Bible reveals God's completed redemptive work in Christ; the trappings of the Mass make it a mystery, reverting back to Old Testament priestly functions which were shadows. The clear denunciation of these in Hebrews 10:11-18 also refers to the Mass.

The invalidity of the Mass is proved by its being continued. If any Mass could validly apply the infinite merits of Christ's sacrifice for men, one Mass would suffice for eternity, since His work is infinite.

The fact that a priest offers Mass for the same people every Sunday proves that last Sunday's Mass is invalid, for it accomplished no eternal Divine work.

Note especially Hebrews 10:12, one sacrifice; 10:14, by one offering; 10:18, no more offering for sin. Leviticus 6:30. "And no sin offering, whereof any of the blood is brought into the tabernacle of the congregation withal in the holy place, shall be eaten: it shall be burnt in the fire." If the Mass is an offering for sin, and according to THE CATHOLIC CATECHISM, Jesus offers Himself as He did on the Cross. If this is the case, the sacrifice cannot be eaten.

Haz.