Know them by their fruit

[dwinkjr]

No one ever suggested that everyone who becomes saved turns into "super Christian" overnight. Obviously, that is not the case for most of us - though I am sure it has happened in the past. What I was asking was: after years of walking with the Lord and "growing up in Him" as one person put it, should there not be some outward changes as a result of the inward workings of the Holy Spirit. No they will not be PERFECT, but don't you think that they should be better - for lack of another word. Again, all I am trying to do is figure out how a person can stagnate the Holy Spirit. Myself, I just don't see anyone having the strength to fiht against the Holy Spirit of God living inside them forever. It just doesn't make any sence to me.

Well I can understand this all too well... I did it for the first 3yrs after i was saved.. I just went about my life in Sin.. I did not repent i did not even attempt to change my life.. I knew what i was doing was wrong, i knew i needed change.. i just refused to.. Some people need a good slap in the face so to speak from God to get in line... And trust me he will give you a good slap in the face if your not listening to him.. The bottom line is I knew the Gospel of Christ, I believed it, i accepted his payment for my sins, i asked him into my heart to save me and to guide me in life, then i chose to stay in the drivers seat... This does happen, now many will say is this person truly saved? I don't knwo for sure, i believe i was, i just was a disobedient child..

God Bless,

Dave

[Orr v'emet]

No one ever suggested that everyone who becomes saved turns into "super Christian" overnight.  Obviously, that is not the case for most of us - though I am sure it has happened in the past.  What I was asking was:  after years of walking with the Lord and "growing up in Him" as one person put it, should there not be some outward changes as a result of the inward workings of the Holy Spirit.  No they will not be PERFECT,  but don't you think that they should be better - for lack of another word.  Again,  all I am trying to do is figure out how a person can stagnate the Holy Spirit.  Myself,  I just don't see anyone having the strength to fiht against the Holy Spirit of God living inside them forever.  It just doesn't make any sence to me.

Well I can understand this all too well... I did it for the first 3yrs after i was saved.. I just went about my life in Sin.. I did not repent i did not even attempt to change my life.. I knew what i was doing was wrong, i knew i needed change.. i just refused to.. Some people need a good slap in the face so to speak from God to get in line... And trust me he will give you a good slap in the face if your not listening to him.. The bottom line is I knew the Gospel of Christ, I believed it, i accepted his payment for my sins, i asked him into my heart to save me and to guide me in life, then i chose to stay in the drivers seat... This does happen, now many will say is this person truly saved? I don't knwo for sure, i believe i was, i just was a disobedient child..

God Bless,

Dave

I can relate to you Dave. For the first year I saw my life transformed but there was a gradual falling back I guess you could say where I tried to do my own thing etc. But you know, I started to let Jesus change my heart. I prayed for a desire for godly things and over a period of weeks I just really fell in love with Jesus and my life hasn't been the same since. At some point you have to get off the milk and start getting the meat as the bible says (my paraphrase of course...) if you expect to grow in Christ. In my experience, a heart that truly loves Jesus brings about the greatest change.

[dwinkjr]

But you know, I started to let Jesus change my heart.

Exactly my point. you have to be willing to let Jesus Change you... many are happy in there sin and donot wanna change or maybe donot understand why they should change(not studying there bibles). The bottom line is many people get saved and donot change or do change and slip back to old ways of life. Change only comes with willingness to submit your life to him who has paid the debt of sin for you.

God Bless,

Dave

[Orr v'emet]

But you know, I started to let Jesus change my heart.

Exactly my point. you have to be willing to let Jesus Change you... many are happy in there sin and donot wanna change or maybe donot understand why they should change(not studying there bibles). The bottom line is many people get saved and donot change or do change and slip back to old ways of life. Change only comes with willingness to submit your life to him who has paid the debt of sin for you.

God Bless,

Dave

I totally agree which could lead to the OSAS thing but we won't get into that. By the way...I noticed you are well on your way to becoming orange. Don't let ted corrupt you!

[Guest Teri]

What generally happens if someone does not begin to change outwardly is you will see the discipline process start to happen. Some people are born again into an overflowing desire to please God. Some are born again and the process is much slower, who knows why. I have seen people who do an about face and turn away from a sinful life over night. And I have seen people who hold on to sin until it gets too painful to keep it. The main point in this though is to remember it is not us but the Holy Spirit that brings about any and all change. He works at the pace God directs in each of us, so as none can boast or none can judge. In my own life my conversion was rapid and dramatic, there was no way I could take an ounce of credit for it. But for my husband it was slow and painful at times. The interesting thing I learned from all of it was patience and how to keep my big mouth shut and keep hands off so the Holy Spirit could work. I also learned how to pray more effectively and it caused me to be on my knees alot and not to be judgemental. So bottom line was not only was his slow process for his benefit, because in times of need he is definitely more quick to point out God is in control, but I benefitted greatly from his slow process and this my friend is exactly what God had intended. And together we have a great testimony, I can tell of a dramatic spiritual experience, while he can share a long string of little miracles that all taken together created an unshakable faith. When I am inspired I want to jump head first into things, and he puts up the caution sign and reminds me to pray first. I love books he loves music, so in our house we have a huge collection of Gods books and Gods music. We are opposites but together make up a whole. The fruit will show up eventually, but I really believe that the slowness of that process is in fact God's way of teaching those of us not to be so critical of others and to keep our mouths shut about our brothers and sisters in Christ and wait upon the Lord.

In Yeshua's love

Teri

[stevehut]

I was on one of these threads and somebody made a comment that they have not had any changes in their life since they became a Christian.

My understanding of the conversion process has always been that you repent of your sins before getting saved or becoming a member of a church. Certainly, we will never be perfect, so this must be a continual process.

Show me a person who didn't make changes before they were converted, and I will show u a person who hasn't been converted.

[stevehut]

Alot of this depends on personal convictions and whether or not this person has there "spiritual ears plugged".

Personal convictions? Seems to me that it has to do with their willingness to obey the Word of God. God's commands don't change according to the level of our convictions.

Or is that not what you meant?

[dwinkjr]

Alot of this depends on personal convictions and whether or not this person has there "spiritual ears plugged".

Personal convictions? Seems to me that it has to do with their willingness to obey the Word of God. God's commands don't change according to the level of our convictions.

Or is that not what you meant?

Thats not quite what i meant, everyone has personal convictions that come from the holy spirit... Some are convicted not to get tattoos, some are convicted not to smoke, some are convicted not to drink... its the willingness to submit to those convictions that ushers in change in a christian's life.

God Bless,

Dave

[traveller]

I was on one of these threads and somebody made a comment that they have not had any changes in their life since they became a Christian.

My understanding of the conversion process has always been that you repent of your sins before getting saved or becoming a member of a church. Certainly, we will never be perfect, so this must be a continual process.

Show me a person who didn't make changes before they were converted, and I will show u a person who hasn't been converted.

Doesn't the word "convert" itself mean to change?

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

The Holy Spirit brings us to a point of conviction, where we realize we have sinned against God. At that point we choose to either accept Jesus as our Savior, with the knowledge that we need a savior and cannot do it ourselves, or we choose to turn away. As we choose to accept Christ, we also repent. We make a decision to turn from our sin.

I also think this is an ongoing process.

Do you agree with this Steve?

[stevehut]

Trav,

What I mean by the word "converted", is a person who has been saved and become a true follower of God. Often, churches admit people as members without regard for whether they have repented of their sins.

As for the matter of "choosing to accept Christ": I would like to think that people would repent at the same time they do so, but it is still a separate action. From my experience, many churches urge people to "accept Christ" without ever mentioning the need to repent.

I know these things because I've done a lot of church-shopping.