Alcohol

[Ovedya]

Again Christ's blood saw no corruption, corruption is a part of making alcoholic wine..we break a type by using alcoholic wine.

Fermentation is not corruption. It's a chemical process. The Lord Jesus was embalmed in a chemical process!

What? " Fermentation is not corruption."

Crush a grape. What takes place? It begins to corrupt or rot .......the sugars turn to alcohol..this is a corruption process.

Jesus blood never went through this process "Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."...... It was pure like fresh juice.

Sorry, but prove that fermentation is corruption.

fermentation: 2. a change brought about by a ferment, as yeast enzymes, which convert grape sugar into ethyl alcohol. [dictionary.com]

Fermentation is different than rotting, or decomposition. Fermentation is a chemical process which takes place between yeast and sugar. This process changes sugars to alcohol. It has absolutely nothing to do with "corruption," as you define it: "The process of decomposition or death." You are simply being superstitious.

[Ovedya]

Timothy was a pastor

Ah......no....he wasn't.

The bible imply he was..many feel he was..but it is neither here nor there..he was in leadership..telling elders what to do etc.

There is no such thing as a "pastor" in the Bible. It never uses the word. Timothy was a co-worker of Paul who was an apostle.

Again, yeah great............ I concede..I am just going off what I have heard. It has nothing to do with alcohol. You are right and I am wrong..I will never say Timothy is a pastor.

Wow! You mean you're so easy to concede tour error with regard to Timothy but not with regard to your position regarding the historic application of "wine" in the Bible?

Sad when someone has to pick out a minor side point and try to make it a major issue. Makes it seem as of they have exhausted they arguments. I am sure most honest folks will see through it.

Head on though, I will admit when I am wrong or even am seemingly wrong.

Oh did you have a scripture that said Timothy was NOT a pastor? I thought not.

Ah! The argument from absence raises it's ugly head. Can you prove from Scripture that Paul did not drink Kentucky Bourbon whiskey? Thought not. That must mean that he did.

The "side issue" was merely to point out that you have a biased view of Scripture (and, in fact, those who are within it). I hoped it would have jogged your cognition a bit, but I see that I was wrong. Maybe try thinking outside your personal paradigm for a moment and you may see what I'm getting at .

[Servant54]

Ah! The argument from absence raises it's ugly head. Can you prove from Scripture that Paul did not drink Kentucky Bourbon whiskey? Thought not. That must mean that he did.

The "side issue" was merely to point out that you have a biased view of Scripture (and, in fact, those who are within it). I hoped it would have jogged your cognition a bit, but I see that I was wrong. Maybe try thinking outside your personal paradigm for a moment and you may see what I'm getting at .

That was meant as a joke. I have been asked numerous times if I had a scripture to prove drinking is a sin and when I can not come up with those exact word someone say see drink is not as sin.

I have a "bias view of scripture" because I say Timothy was a pastor? What a weird off the wall statement. What a stretch..you must be getting desperate.

May I suggest you try thinking outside of the box you have created around yourself for a small time period and see what the abstinence side of this discussion is trying to say.

I believe the side issue is to distract from the main topic and is an attack on my bible knowledge to discredit me. I can tell you right up front that I am not a bible scholar..I just read the arguments for and against this issue and learn from my mistakes. I make mistakes.

Have a good sleep.

[Guest yod]

Yes, he probably was drinking wine when Paul says to drink wine.....

So, according to your private interpretation of the scriptures concerning wine, Paul was actually enticing Timothy to sin....

Do you not see the way your interpretation contradicts the scriptures yet?

[Ovedya]

I have a "bias view of scripture" because I say Timothy was a pastor?

No, you have a biased view of Scripture because of what you have been taught by religious minds.

[Axxman]

Another insult. You know what? If your going to insult me, I'd really rather you didn't call me "bro." As long as you are saying the kind of stuff you are above, I ain't your "bro."

LOL...is this some kind of distraction?

Seriously, if this is too tough for you then I don't know what to say. I can't make these posts any more light hearted than I am, but you are feigning hurt in order to avoid the very good point I made. I was poking fun because you claim scripture is sooooo clear that we don't need hermeneutics or Strong's...but then you try to prove your point by using those same study methods. Ironic?

Lighten up bro!

[Axxman]

Plain grape juice would not have been available at the Passover because it would not have remained unfermented from harvesttime in the fall until Passover in the springtime.

Yod...on this one point, I have to take issue. I know that was the prevailing theory for a long, long time and it may take years to convince people otherwise...but modern archaelogy has completely disproven the idea that grape juice would not have been available year round. They did preserve their juices in multiple ways..they were quite innovative. They had grape juice, and grape products available year-round.

[Axxman]

Yes, he probably was drinking wine when Paul says to drink wine.....

So, according to your private interpretation of the scriptures concerning wine, Paul was actually enticing Timothy to sin....

Do you not see the way your interpretation contradicts the scriptures yet?

As far as I can tell there is NOTHING in the context that would lead a person to think that the "wine" in question is alcoholic. If a person assumes it is alcoholic wine simply because you see the word wine (oinos) then they are using bad exegesis.

Either way...whatever Paul was suggesting seems medicinal in nature.

[Servant54]

Yes, he probably was drinking wine when Paul says to drink wine.....

So, according to your private interpretation of the scriptures concerning wine, Paul was actually enticing Timothy to sin....

Do you not see the way your interpretation contradicts the scriptures yet?

We already have been over this. Thank you for bring in up again though because it shows certain arguments are parroted over and over. We already disgust how the bible teaches that alcohol has a use for medical purposes...this is one of those times. Also Proverbs 31 mentions two other ones.

Not to say this wine was the same as wine today or even the watered down wine the Gentiles drank, it could have been plain grape juice..but I doubt it.

Thank you for your post.

[Guest yod]

As far as I can tell there is NOTHING in the context that would lead a person to think that the "wine" in question is alcoholic.

you can't prove a negative. In other words, there is no way to prove that Jesus didn't wear Roman sandals either.

But had He been an exception to the society He grew up in with regard to eating or drinking, it would have prominently noted because the jewish community has ALWAYS focused a lot of attention on diet.

Either way...if you guys insist on projecting a specifically American-religious morality onto the story of His righteousness, I obviously can't stop you but I will warn that yours is a works based faith if you think what goes into our belly and is later emptied into the gutter can make us either more OR less righteous.