Christianity and science

[Guest shiloh357]

I cannot argue science. I am not a scientist. And unlike my Evolutionary counterparts, I don't post links from creationist websites in this thread. I simply draw attention to what the Bible says. I cannot provide a scientific response, but I can provide a theological response and I can show why Evolution and Christianity cannot co-exist and why no serious evolutionist can be a true follower of Christ.

Your version of Christianity perhaps can't co-exist with science, but theistic evolutionists have no difficulty. But I am puzzled, Shiloh, why does evolution, in your view, contradict Jesus? I have never thought this myself.

At risk of being a broken record, Evolution is defined by its orthodox, mainstream proponents as an unguided, impersonal, entirely naturalistic process. That definition precludes theism. Thesistic evolution breaks with the orthodox definition of evolution to include God has an intelligent, personal catalyst and thus making evolution a supernatural event. In effect, it is as MorningGlory said, an oxymoron.

The Bible not only says that God is the creator, but it teaches that Jesus Himself is the creator (John 1:3, 10, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:2,3, 8-12) So, right the start, Evolution contradicts Jesus as Creator.

Evolution stands opposed to Jesus as Savior/Redeemer. The Bible teaches that death and the decaying condition of this world is the product of sin. The Bible teaches that the death and decay we see in the world is a visible reminder of spiritual condition of man separated from God.

But Evolution teaches that death is totally natural and has been going on for millions of years prior to Adam's sin. Those who approach the world from a purely naturalistic standpoint, see no connection between sin and death, but the Bible links the two together.

Jesus came to redeem us from the bondage of sin and the sentence of death that hangs over all of humanity as the direct result of sin. If death, however, is entirely natural and has no connection whatsoever to sin, then it voids out the plan of redemption. If death is not the penalty of sin, then it cannot be the object of redemption and the hope the Bible offers man eternal life and a future wherein both spiritual/physical death, sickness, pain, etc. are entirely eliminated is a false indeed fraudulent hope.

Those are just two ways Evolution stands in opposition to the Bible and to Jesus, in particular.

[MorningGlory]

Looks like 'bowap' gave up trying to prove we evolved from chimanzees...eh???

[Bowap]

http://www.worthychristianforums.com/index...t&p=1376296

As someone who has studied the evolutionary theory, and understands the TOE, I'm not sure why you believe it's your job to teach 'ignorant' Christians the Darwinian point of view.

Looks like 'bowap' gave up trying to prove we evolved from chimanzees...eh???

http://www.worthychristianforums.com/index...t&p=1379647

This Collins person can't be a Christian and, at the same time, believe that he is the greatgrandson of a chimpanzee.

I think these statements illustrate my points, why I decided to come here, and also your obvious lack of understanding of the subjects.

So yes, I have given up trying to have a serious discussion with someone who clearly doesn't have a clue what they are talking about, isn't even prepared to learn or listen to evidence and arguments, and who also accuses everyone who doesn't agree with biblical literalism of being a non-Christian.

[Guest man]

Bowap,

Do you believe we evolved from monkeys or some lower life form?

[pokemaughan]

Yep, there are a great many thing we discover as time goes on...

God's world is full of surprises...

But as far as I'm concerned, the knowledge of men is shifty ground. Right one day, wrong the next. Sure, we can try and write a manual on God's Green Earth... but seeing as we didn't make it, we can't quite see the whole picture.

Evolution is just one of those efforts to try and explain the unexplainable. Another route to avoid God. Another divider Satan has put in place.

Soon we'll have the Church of Jesus Darwin.

[Guest man]

Bowap,

Do you believe we evolved from monkeys or some lower life form?

All evolutionists, myself included, believe humans evolved from a monkey-like ancestor, but not from any monkey that exists today.

What were we just before we evolved into what we are today and how many years ago was that?

And where did "all" life begin?

[pokemaughan]

...

This is why I'm on this side of the fence, and you're over there.

Should you change your mind, the gate is always open.

[MorningGlory]

http://www.worthychristianforums.com/index...t&p=1376296

As someone who has studied the evolutionary theory, and understands the TOE, I'm not sure why you believe it's your job to teach 'ignorant' Christians the Darwinian point of view.

Looks like 'bowap' gave up trying to prove we evolved from chimanzees...eh???

http://www.worthychristianforums.com/index...t&p=1379647

This Collins person can't be a Christian and, at the same time, believe that he is the greatgrandson of a chimpanzee.

I think these statements illustrate my points, why I decided to come here, and also your obvious lack of understanding of the subjects.

So yes, I have given up trying to have a serious discussion with someone who clearly doesn't have a clue what they are talking about, isn't even prepared to learn or listen to evidence and arguments, and who also accuses everyone who doesn't agree with biblical literalism of being a non-Christian.

You've such a high opinion of yourself; you sure don't need anyone else to give you applause. I've heard all of this before, bowap, and I'll be willing to bet a chimpanzee cookie that you're giving up because you can't go the distance with one who can't be intimidated or influenced by you. What is your area of expertise? Do you have a degree in biology? I'm not a scientist myself, I'm an engineer and, as such, weigh and assess information without emotion entering the picture. I DO understand whereof I speak and I don't have to copy any of it from Wikipedia, Science Weekly or anywhere else. Don't get all huffy because a Christian can see right through you; instead get used to it. No true believer is going to buy your goods, my friend. I will pray for you. And you ARE a nonbeliever.

[MorningGlory]

No true believer (Bowap) is going to buy your goods, my friend. I will pray for you. And you ARE a nonbeliever.

The problem with your assumption MorningGlory is that Collins would make the very same type of arguments as Bowap, and Collins is without question a strong believer. He is in fact an evangelical Christian.

Do you know Mr. Collins personally? I have still to read his book but I'm working on it. From a quick scan of the book "The Language of God", I will say that Collins definitely agrees with bowap but then that appears to be where bowap gets his material. Collins doesn't strike me as an 'evangelical Christian' when I read his articles. Concerning the aforementioned poster, I make no assumption, Hitchey; I would never say that unless I was sure. And I am.

[Guest man]

And where did "all" life begin?

I feel like a revered seer to be asked such an important question. Unfortunately I don't have an answer, but I wouldn't be surpirsed if one isn't eventually forthcoming. Someone at another site once told me though, that he wouldn't believe life evolved spontaneously even if biologists figured out how to replicate the event. Interestng. Yes?

Life had to begin somewhere.

What are the beliefs of the evolutionists?

For lack of a better word, a "monkey" didn't just appear out of nowhere and suddenly start evolving into a human. Where is it believed that those lower life forms originated from?