Athiest tough questions

[traveller]

Thracius - specifically - why are you here? You claim to have done this before. do you normally visit Christian forums to "debate?"

[Smalcald]

Debating religion should be left for all night dorm room sessions.

It really does not go anywhere. However, discussion is interesting, finding out what people believe and why is interesting to me at least. But debating religious faith is worthless, as you say Thrac it always comes back to the same old arguments over and over and over, not just for Christians but also for atheists, these waters have been well tread before.

[Smalcald]

But debating religious faith is worthless, as you say Thrac

Ah. I didn't say it was worthless. I said it always comes down to circular reasoning that I cannot break.

If either side learns something from a discussion, regardless of whether the discussion was properly resolved or not, the discussion was not worthless. In spite of the fact that I sometimes (well, let's be honest, ALWAYS) feel like I'm trying to break through a mountain with my head, I usually find that I do pick up something new from these discussions, no matter how small. So they're not without merit. If I thought they were then I would have left the religious folks to their own incredibly varied and wacky devices a long time ago.

Yes but you are a dishonest poster, you are an internet poser. You come to a Christian forum to "ask questions" etc, then you simply like to jerk people around. It is certainly okay to say you know what I don't really buy this right now, I get that, most Christians get that. What we don't get are people who come to Christian forums to simply mess with people. I know this is good sport among those in the secular internet community, but not here, we do try to have some honor.

[Guest]

.... Some seem to think I'm just here to stir up trouble, or to break people's faith or some other such thing. Which is fine ....

.... Like I said, if you'd prefer to think that, by all means, do so ....

To Truly Think

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Isaiah 1:18

Is To Let God Break Your Pride

And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Matthew 21:44

And To Know You Really Are Nothing Much To Brag About

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Isaiah 64:6

Until You See The Lord Jesus And Believe

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:13-15

And Then He Becomes Your Boast

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Galatians 6:14

And Your Joy

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

Jeremiah 15:16

>>>>>()<<<<<

Stir Up Your Courage

Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.

Psalms 27:14

Believe And Confess

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:9

And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:13

[Oh Hamburgers!]

It's amazing to see how threads like this digress from civilized discussions to things like this last page.

Speaking as someone who isn't really an atheist but not christian enough to be considered a 'believer' at worthy, I think the best way to deal with people who question God's existence is by dealing with them as you should anyone else; with respect. Gauge their intentions. Be wary of people (this happens mostly on the internet) who are just trying to troll, but keep an open mind to the possibility that they are in fact asking genuine questions. I think that most atheists probably wish they *could* believe, but haven't found anything tangible enough to give them a reason to. And if they want to be given a tangible reason to, what better place to ask questions than a place like this?

And really, I think a large percentage of atheists aren't choosing to ignore God, but rather they have come to the conclusion that there is simply no such thing. What is the incentive to disbelieve for the sake of disbelieving? It is probably more comforting to believe that there is an eternal judge to make order in a crazy world, and it is probably comforting to believe in an afterlife instead of facing eternal death.

[Guest]

It's amazing to see how threads like this digress from civilized discussions to things like this last page.

Please Forgive Me!

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4

>>>>>()<<<<

Dear One

Welcome Back

There Is Hardly A Day Go By

That You Are Not In My Thoughts And Prayers

Do You Now Believe And Confess

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:9

Knowing That Jesus Is LORD

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Romans 14:11-12

Rejoicing In His Word

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

Jeremiah 15:16

Are You A Believer

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:35-36

By God's Standards

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1 John 5:11-13

Yes - Oh Hamburgers! Oh Hallelujah!

No - Still Praying!

Love, Joe

And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. 1 John 5:19-20

[Smalcald]

It's amazing to see how threads like this digress from civilized discussions to things like this last page.

Speaking as someone who isn't really an atheist but not christian enough to be considered a 'believer' at worthy, I think the best way to deal with people who question God's existence is by dealing with them as you should anyone else; with respect. Gauge their intentions. Be wary of people (this happens mostly on the internet) who are just trying to troll, but keep an open mind to the possibility that they are in fact asking genuine questions. I think that most atheists probably wish they *could* believe, but haven't found anything tangible enough to give them a reason to. And if they want to be given a tangible reason to, what better place to ask questions than a place like this?

And really, I think a large percentage of atheists aren't choosing to ignore God, but rather they have come to the conclusion that there is simply no such thing. What is the incentive to disbelieve for the sake of disbelieving? It is probably more comforting to believe that there is an eternal judge to make order in a crazy world, and it is probably comforting to believe in an afterlife instead of facing eternal death.

So Thrac is this true is this what you are about? If so indeed I apologize.

[Arthur Durnan]

Bienvenue indeed to the "atheist" 'god Chance', which, of course, underscores the inane philosophy of the "atheist" as definitely a religion. "Atheism" worships at the Shrine of Chance & the Altar of the Accidental! Wasn't it Bobby Dylan who declared, "Ya Gotta Serve Somebody!"? I love it! I love it! But will it sell it in Peoria?

[OneLight]

It's amazing to see how threads like this digress from civilized discussions to things like this last page.

Speaking as someone who isn't really an atheist but not christian enough to be considered a 'believer' at worthy, I think the best way to deal with people who question God's existence is by dealing with them as you should anyone else; with respect. Gauge their intentions. Be wary of people (this happens mostly on the internet) who are just trying to troll, but keep an open mind to the possibility that they are in fact asking genuine questions. I think that most atheists probably wish they *could* believe, but haven't found anything tangible enough to give them a reason to. And if they want to be given a tangible reason to, what better place to ask questions than a place like this?

And really, I think a large percentage of atheists aren't choosing to ignore God, but rather they have come to the conclusion that there is simply no such thing. What is the incentive to disbelieve for the sake of disbelieving? It is probably more comforting to believe that there is an eternal judge to make order in a crazy world, and it is probably comforting to believe in an afterlife instead of facing eternal death.

I think this is very well said. We, who believe, have a hard time understanding anyone who does not. We wonder how anyone could not believe in a God so wonderful, yet, many fail to put themselves in the shoes of another to try and understand how they see things.

At one time in our lives, we all had a knowledge of God, but He was still just that, knowledge. We knew that there had to be something because nobody had the answers to how things came about, the stars, the earth, everything that is. We were told about God, yet, God was so far out there that we did not understand who He was, a personal God who is everywhere. The point I am trying to make is that there was no real connection until we, in our own hearts, sought God and He revealed Himself to us. We were not really seeking to know which god was God, but who God was. This may be the difference and the trouble many have today. Man has created so many gods that a person is left to wonder who is right and tries to understand these gods to find an answer instead of just having one choice. Satan made sure that we would become so confused that only those who sought in the right way, with their whole heart and mind. It is like God made one door to open and Satan came along and made many other doors that looked so nice that we became confused to which one to open, so we start opening them all to see what was inside.

I can remember the thoughts that use to go through my head before I came to Christ. I had tried many other ways, but they had all left me empty. I can remember how empty I felt. It was scary and at times felt unbearable. Here I was, just one little speck in a sea of people, sitting in my room, looking out and thinking that there has to be a reason, but being so confused that I just could not understand why I could not just have answers. Why, would a God that supposedly created everything didn't leave clear answer to our questions. Yes, people would tell me to just believe, but for some reason, like many who come here, I could not just believe. There was no time in my life that I felt so insignificant then then, and even trying to explain this feeling is not enough. There is no word that could ever adequately describe this feel of total loss and confusion.

Finally, I decided to just take a step of faith and try to find answers by studying His word, praying and going to church. I had already opened other doors that looked like the right ones, but were not, so I decided to open the one people kept pointing to. I can remember thinking that I could find the answers in others. This also seemed like a loss because God, who He truly is, could not be found in anything that I was using. Yes, the church was full of people who were hypocrites, saying one thing and doing another. This turned me off so much that I didn't try to seek out those who really believed. Scripture, even though today I see it differently, was just another book to me. A beautiful book where a loving God did so many wonderful things and loved so many people that it only placed a deeper desire in me to find this God everyone told me is real. You see, people, scripture and church only described to me basically what I had already known deep inside, but did nothing to connect me to God enough to make Him real in my life. Yes, I had said the sinners prayer, been baptized and all that I was told I had to do to become a child of God, and maybe that was enough for God to start the work He was doing in my life, but He was still not truly real to me. I wanted to believe and not feel so lost, but there was not any solid enough evidence in my heart and mind, only desires. This led me to a point where one day , with all my heart (and this description is truly inadequate in itself), I cried to God in prayer and asked Him if He is real or if this was just mans way to keep people focused on what they though were good virtues to live a better life. My reason for asking was that if He would not answer, then He was nto real. This time in my life was very true to the word seeker. Jesus Himself, that day, spoke to me and told me as clear, or even more clearer then any words could describe, "I Am Alive." I wrote a brief description of this in another thread, but as I reread it, I now realize that I did such a poor job and only gave facts and did not describe what went on inside of me at that time. A release of all doubt that one has to experience in order to understand.

You see, for me, I had to work my way through all other means before I came to realize that man does not have the answers, only God does. Yes, man can tell us about God, but only God can make these words real. It is this personal relationship with God that ties it all together, otherwise, we just have head knowledge. I truly wish there was a means for man to connect others who seek directly to God, but we can't. All we can do is speak the truth, in love, and pray that these words touched a certain part of their lives that would move them even closer to a place in their lives where they need to be in order for God to touch them in a way that only God can.

If all we do is judge, point fingers and put an unbeliever down, we fail in God.

I hope this made since because I desire to bring an understanding that would stop the beating of those who are truly seeking God, those who are not here to just debate and slam our faith and God.

God Bless,

Alan

[Smalcald]

I hope this made since because I desire to bring an understanding that would stop the beating of those who are truly seeking God, those who are not here to just debate and slam our faith and God.

I agree on this point.