jesussaves Posted July 22, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 210 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,144 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2009 Hebrews 10:35-39 35Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. 36For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. 37For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. 38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 A long time ago, I gave up trying to figure out the salvation of the backslidden. I honestly do not believe this is our concern. After all, what difference would such knowledge bring? James 5 19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. Everyone should give some thought to what James is saying there. If you see a brother wander from the truth, does it matter whether you believe he lost his salvation or that he is saved no matter what? The command is to turn him back - period. Would any of us here leave him be for belief that his eternal fate is secured? I doubt it. What would be the point in trying to bring him back if he continues to be saved? It makes no sense. What would we be bringing him back too? His salvation? Why? He already has it. James stated that we, "will save a soul from death". What does death mean? My definition would be eternal damnation. A spiritual death. Those who are spiritually dead are not covered by the blood of Christ. If they were, there would be no need for repentence. So it does matter. The Word is crystal clear about those who turn from the faith. God gives us the promise of eternal security for those who obey Him, and eternal damnation for those who don't. This is a hard pill to swallow, but there are believers who will not make it into the kingdom. And for those who do not make it into the kingdom, what is their final destination? The truth matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 22, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.93 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted July 22, 2009 What would be the point in trying to bring him back if he continues to be saved? It makes no sense. What would we be bringing him back too? His salvation? Why? He already has it. Are you saying that if you saw a brother fall into sin, and you believed OSAS, then you would just let him continue in his sin and not try to encourage him towards repentance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted July 22, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.08 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2009 A long time ago, I gave up trying to figure out the salvation of the backslidden. I honestly do not believe this is our concern. After all, what difference would such knowledge bring? James 5 19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. Everyone should give some thought to what James is saying there. If you see a brother wander from the truth, does it matter whether you believe he lost his salvation or that he is saved no matter what? The command is to turn him back - period. Would any of us here leave him be for belief that his eternal fate is secured? I doubt it. What would be the point in trying to bring him back if he continues to be saved? It makes no sense. What would we be bringing him back too? His salvation? Why? He already has it. James stated that we, "will save a soul from death". What does death mean? My definition would be eternal damnation. A spiritual death. Those who are spiritually dead are not covered by the blood of Christ. If they were, there would be no need for repentence. So it does matter. The Word is crystal clear about those who turn from the faith. God gives us the promise of eternal security for those who obey Him, and eternal damnation for those who don't. This is a hard pill to swallow, but there are believers who will not make it into the kingdom. And for those who do not make it into the kingdom, what is their final destination? The truth matters. Absolutely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted July 22, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2009 What would be the point in trying to bring him back if he continues to be saved? It makes no sense. What would we be bringing him back too? His salvation? Why? He already has it. Are you saying that if you saw a brother fall into sin, and you believed OSAS, then you would just let him continue in his sin and not try to encourage him towards repentance? Jude 23--"And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garments spotted by the flesh." we are told to reach back to reach back to the lost and those whom are backsliden (Create in me a clean heart O, God Wash me and I shall be clean) oc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted July 22, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2009 You ask, Is the blood of Jesus Sufficient or not? Well to me it goes unsaid, that the blood that was shed on the cross was way more than one can recieve. The apostle Paul was knocked off his horse and it was obvious that the blood shed on the cross it touched Paul's life tremendously. Apostle Paul went through alot of physical harm for preaching the gospel on his missionary journeys you can read about those hardships which Paul suffered in................... 2 Corinthians 11:23-33 2 Corinthians 12:9--And he said unto me, My grace is "SUFFICIENT" for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmites, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For it is the blood that we recieve grace into our lives and it is grace that makes all our tribulations bearable. So it goes unsaid that the blood of Jesus does work. We were born into spiritual bondage not spiritual liberty. If we had spiritual freedom then we would not have needed a Saviour. oc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterpoet Posted July 22, 2009 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 128 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,704 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 25 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/29/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1950 Share Posted July 22, 2009 A long time ago, I gave up trying to figure out the salvation of the backslidden. I honestly do not believe this is our concern. After all, what difference would such knowledge bring? James 5 19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. Everyone should give some thought to what James is saying there. I cannot be snatched out of the Father's hand. No, but one can always walk away....................and many do..............without knowing it. Walking away would be "works" on my part, and our works cannot ever negate the power of Jesus' blood to keep me covered. James5:20 Brethren NT Commentary: Let him know, i.e., him who concerts or brings him back of those who had once made a profession of Christianity, but were inclined to go back again into worldliness.. Shall save a soul from death,i.e., from eternal death, separation from God. Shall hide a multitude of sins,i.e., The event of returning again to the truth would necessitate the forgiveness of all that was contrary to the truth, which would be equal to hiding the multitude of sins,i.e., sin which the Lord would pass by and not bring against him in judgement. I added the underlines to emphasize points I feel relevant for this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HIS girl Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Yes - the Blood of Christ IS powerful - absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lekh l'kha Posted July 22, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 830 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2009 "For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly . . . But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:6 & 8). Before we get saved we are spiritual slaves. A ransom was and is necessary for our freedom (salvation), and God paid that ransom with the blood of Jesus (Mark 10:45). When God's ransom is accepted as payment in full we are no longer slaves. Our price for salvation was paid ONCE for ALL (Romans 6:10). It is not a price that Jesus has to pay again each time we stumble or fall. His blood is much more powerful than that! I believe when a person genuinely accepts the sacrifice of Jesus as God's payment for their salvation that individual is saved and will always be saved. I don't believe God takes back His payment when we stray. Because . . . Our works cannot penetrate the power of Jesus' blood; whether it is works towards getting saved or works toward staying saved. It is not our works that saves us, and it is not our works that keep us saved. It is solely the grace of God. The spotless blood of Jesus is more than sufficient to save us and more than sufficient to sustain us or else Jesus died for nothing and His blood is powerless. Well, He didn't die for nothing, and His blood is not powerless! It is perfect enough, sufficient enough, and powerful enough to save us while we were ungodly and still sinners, and it is my belief that that same blood is equally perfect, equally sufficient, and equally powerful enough to sustain our salvation while we are still imperfect in this world of trials, tribulations, and struggles. "The Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart" (1 Samuel 16:7). ONLY GOD truly knows the heart of each individual. This OP is so good, I've saved it to "My Documents". Thanks, lovinghim4ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lekh l'kha Posted July 22, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 830 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2009 What would be the point in trying to bring him back if he continues to be saved? It makes no sense. What would we be bringing him back too? His salvation? Why? He already has it. James stated that we, "will save a soul from death". What does death mean? My definition would be eternal damnation. A spiritual death. Those who are spiritually dead are not covered by the blood of Christ. If they were, there would be no need for repentence. So it does matter. The Word is crystal clear about those who turn from the faith. God gives us the promise of eternal security for those who obey Him, and eternal damnation for those who don't. This is a hard pill to swallow, but there are believers who will not make it into the kingdom. And for those who do not make it into the kingdom, what is their final destination? The truth matters. gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentlenss, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. there is much more to our lives as Christians than our final destination. the closer our walk is with God, the more content and peaceful our lives are. the farther we are from God, the less content and peaceful our lives are. loving our fellow man means desiring the best for them--which is a close walk with their Saviour, and hence, the peace and comfort that comes from it. i agree with Nebula that judging who is saved and who is not is not our job or our concern. our concern is loving others. we need to help those not living for Christ. period. the Spirit will let them know if salvation is what they need. the example we set, and the love and care we show them will do much more than telling them they need to get "resaved" will ever do. we don't know their heart, so we don't know if it's a salvation issue or not. love them, and let God do His job. as far as "believers" not making it into the kingdom--i guess that goes back to the OP. is Christ's blood not enough to keep them? Yes. "A believer is a believer", even though he battle with sin: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." (Joh 3:16) "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, and your household." (Act 16:31) GOD knows who's a believer and who isn't, and GOD knows the thoughts and intents of every believers heart. We can't say some believers are saved, and others not. What is works, anyway? "Therefore by their fruits you shall know them." (Mat 7:20) "But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law. But those belonging to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." (Gal 5:22-25) "Behold also the ships being so great, and driven by fierce winds, yet they are turned about with a very small rudder, where the impulse of him steering desires. Even so the tongue is a little member and boasts great things. Behold how little a fire kindles how large a forest!" (Jas 3:4-5) Walking in the Spirit is not walking in legalistic righteousness - it's walking in the Spirit of Christ so that HE can produce righteousness in and through us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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