Apostasy

[princess2000]

I think the falling away has more to do with the media then the churches. Yes I think we should get back to more traditional beliefs, but traditional beliefs were that God really doesn't care for us, that he "holds us over the fires of hell like a woman holds a spider in her home over the fires" to quote my 9-greats-uncle-in-law Jonathan Edwards (his daughter married my 8-greats-uncle on my mom's mom's side of the family). Of course we know better now, we know that while being a just God, our God is one of love, not contempt. At the same time I recognize that if we don't change just a bit we will be lost with the times, but only one thing really truly must change, and that's our music, for even in the past that's the only factor besides the preacher's homily that has changed the most.

The reason I suspect the media has more to do with this problem is because of a preconception that has been shoved down my throat about people of other denominations, one that was never denied my my father's side of the family. See, I'm Catholic, and the way I always perceived people of other denominations are that they go around trying to "save your soul" door to door by getting you to join their faith and then go to some secret meeting where they share how many souls they saved and pick out prizes like girls selling girl scout cookies. The only denominations I actually felt comfortable around were my best friend's and my aunt on my mom's side's, and that was only because I would say something like "My church does (insert something my church would do)" and my best friend would go "Oh, my church does that to" and then we'd start comparing similarities. The reason for my fear of the others is because my aunt out right told my dad he was going to hell because he was Catholic when he was younger (after my great-grandfather's death my dad became the only Catholic until I was born) and whenever my uncle visits from New Hampshire it's always a religious debate between him and my dad, and of course I always have to jump in because I know more about Catholicism then my dad.

The other thing the media says is that you'd have to be a freak to be religious, that being athletic and religious don't mix or that being normal and religious don't mix. The media says that by being religious you are automatically a freak and people don't want to be labeled as freaks so they shove off religion as something that's there when they need a rant. That's really all they use it for, as an outlet to scream at God when things aren't going their way.

Peace out

~Beka

... Oh My! You really believed this about other churches?

Tthe media has nothing to do with the falling away, Christians do. Just because they may say something, doesn't mean you have to believe it.

I agree. Though the media might or does contribute to the humanist and antichrist agenda Beka is right. If we fall away because we listened to the media that we actually a choice and not a con. We are responsible for researching the word of God no matter what denomination we are in if any at all. What does scripture say " We must study to be approved of God". Unfortunately the Catholic church has it,s own version of the bible and there are some differences between the KJV for example and the Catholic bible. If I were you I would forget about any denominational differences and start reading and comparing other bible versions. If you study and read the Catholic bible and no other bible and the Catholic bible is wrong about something and you believe wrongly that is your fault because you didn't research what you have been taught. Personally I do not trust any denominational teachings. I rely on bible study tools that are not influenced by any man or denomination and believe me there are many so called accurate bible lexicons, dictionaries and more. I believe that the older the bible lexicon or dictionary the closer we are to the original meaning of any given word.

Yes, we have our own version of the bible, it's longer then the KJV. And other then minuet word differences, the only major differences are Maccabees 1 &2, and parts of Ruth and Tobit. Parts that to my understanding had been taken out because at the time of their removal nobody could find their original original Hebrew manuscripts. About 500 years later the original original Hebrew manuscripts were found in the form of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Again, my understanding.

The other thing is, and I'm probably going to spend a little bit more time in purgatory for this, I see churches as sea shells, they are similar and different and there are a multitude of them. But what makes one sea shell irreplaceable for one person may be trash for another. Translation: While I recognize that God wants us to be one church, one church is a "perfect fit" for somebody, Catholicism becomes that irreplaceable shell for me, the Lutheran church for my best friend, Episcopalian for my Aunt, your denomination for you.

Peace out

~Beka

Actually you have forgotten about 1 & 2 Esdras, the book of Judith, the Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiaticus, the book of Burak, the Song of the Three Children, the book of the History of Susanna, the book of the History of Bel and the Dragon, and The Prayer of Manasseh King of the Jews.

All of these books have some unique stuff in them such as in the story of Esther it is said that Esther actually put human poop in her hair to show her depth of morning. Bel and the Dragon is about how the Prophet Danial actually killed a real live dragon. 1 & 2 Esdras are about prophecy both past and future and many of them actually line up with prophecy in the book of Danial. My research has lead me to believe that 1 & 2 Esdras are actually books written by Ezra and a very interesting thing about them is that Esdras was supposed to have been taken up to heaven without ever tasting of death and the death of Ezra is not recorded in the book of Ezra in the KJV. Judith who was a virtuous woman seduced an Assyrian general and save Israel by cutting his head off with 2 wackes. And so on.

Maybe you should study your version of the bible a little better and you should study a little more about your choice of denomination because if you did you would find out that Catholicism makes some pretty fantastic claims including but not limited to the belief that clergy are the only authorized by God people on the face of the earth who can properly interpreter scripture and the everybody else is wrong.

No insult given her just the facts.

Robert

We don't actually make that claim, just saying. I'm allowed to interpret scripture and I'm a teenage girl, a kid in my school's allowed to interpret scripture and he's athiest, does that mean he does interpret scripture, no. All my life I've been asked what scripture passages mean to me, in my religion text book which is used by Catholics across the country. I know my faith quite well, we do not make any claims too fantastic. As for those books, have them, just with different names, I couldn't find anything about the book of Burack or the Song of the Three Children online, I haven't searched for the last ones yet.

Don't tell me anything about the Book of Esther, I love that story, and Ruth and Maccabees, Esther was a strong woman who saved the lives of all of her people, she's one of my greatest role models.

Peace Out

~Beka

[Fez]

Beka! How you doing!

Don't tell me anything about the Book of Esther, I love that story, and Ruth and Maccabees, Esther was a strong woman who saved the lives of all of her people, she's one of my greatest role models.

I agree, Esther is a wonderful book, and if you understand the step in faith she actually had to make when she went before Xerxes it becomes much more relevant.

She put her life on the line when she stood before him! Xerxes had his palace in a place called Suza, and if you do a web search you will see parts of it that still stand. There are carvings in the stone walls of Xerxes actually holding his golden staff in his hand, and you can see the palace gate that Mordecai actually stood under! He had a palace guard of 10,000 called the immortals, soldiers who fought to the death. (the Spatrans killed them all!) Saddam Hussien modeled his elite troops, the Republican Guard, that were defeated during Desert Storm on the immortals.

Xerxes was the king who fought the Spartans in Greece and was defeated there. Do you remember the movie 300? That was about the Spartans fighting Xerxes! Not a good movie if you don't like a lot of fighting and blood though, so better not to watch it.

But he was one tough customer, and ruled more than half of the known world at that time, and Esther with her faith in God, stood up to him!

[Massorite]

I think the falling away has more to do with the media then the churches. Yes I think we should get back to more traditional beliefs, but traditional beliefs were that God really doesn't care for us, that he "holds us over the fires of hell like a woman holds a spider in her home over the fires" to quote my 9-greats-uncle-in-law Jonathan Edwards (his daughter married my 8-greats-uncle on my mom's mom's side of the family). Of course we know better now, we know that while being a just God, our God is one of love, not contempt. At the same time I recognize that if we don't change just a bit we will be lost with the times, but only one thing really truly must change, and that's our music, for even in the past that's the only factor besides the preacher's homily that has changed the most.

The reason I suspect the media has more to do with this problem is because of a preconception that has been shoved down my throat about people of other denominations, one that was never denied my my father's side of the family. See, I'm Catholic, and the way I always perceived people of other denominations are that they go around trying to "save your soul" door to door by getting you to join their faith and then go to some secret meeting where they share how many souls they saved and pick out prizes like girls selling girl scout cookies. The only denominations I actually felt comfortable around were my best friend's and my aunt on my mom's side's, and that was only because I would say something like "My church does (insert something my church would do)" and my best friend would go "Oh, my church does that to" and then we'd start comparing similarities. The reason for my fear of the others is because my aunt out right told my dad he was going to hell because he was Catholic when he was younger (after my great-grandfather's death my dad became the only Catholic until I was born) and whenever my uncle visits from New Hampshire it's always a religious debate between him and my dad, and of course I always have to jump in because I know more about Catholicism then my dad.

The other thing the media says is that you'd have to be a freak to be religious, that being athletic and religious don't mix or that being normal and religious don't mix. The media says that by being religious you are automatically a freak and people don't want to be labeled as freaks so they shove off religion as something that's there when they need a rant. That's really all they use it for, as an outlet to scream at God when things aren't going their way.

Peace out

~Beka

... Oh My! You really believed this about other churches?

Tthe media has nothing to do with the falling away, Christians do. Just because they may say something, doesn't mean you have to believe it.

I agree. Though the media might or does contribute to the humanist and antichrist agenda Beka is right. If we fall away because we listened to the media that we actually a choice and not a con. We are responsible for researching the word of God no matter what denomination we are in if any at all. What does scripture say " We must study to be approved of God". Unfortunately the Catholic church has it,s own version of the bible and there are some differences between the KJV for example and the Catholic bible. If I were you I would forget about any denominational differences and start reading and comparing other bible versions. If you study and read the Catholic bible and no other bible and the Catholic bible is wrong about something and you believe wrongly that is your fault because you didn't research what you have been taught. Personally I do not trust any denominational teachings. I rely on bible study tools that are not influenced by any man or denomination and believe me there are many so called accurate bible lexicons, dictionaries and more. I believe that the older the bible lexicon or dictionary the closer we are to the original meaning of any given word.

Yes, we have our own version of the bible, it's longer then the KJV. And other then minuet word differences, the only major differences are Maccabees 1 &2, and parts of Ruth and Tobit. Parts that to my understanding had been taken out because at the time of their removal nobody could find their original original Hebrew manuscripts. About 500 years later the original original Hebrew manuscripts were found in the form of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Again, my understanding.

The other thing is, and I'm probably going to spend a little bit more time in purgatory for this, I see churches as sea shells, they are similar and different and there are a multitude of them. But what makes one sea shell irreplaceable for one person may be trash for another. Translation: While I recognize that God wants us to be one church, one church is a "perfect fit" for somebody, Catholicism becomes that irreplaceable shell for me, the Lutheran church for my best friend, Episcopalian for my Aunt, your denomination for you.

Peace out

~Beka

Actually you have forgotten about 1 & 2 Esdras, the book of Judith, the Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiaticus, the book of Burak, the Song of the Three Children, the book of the History of Susanna, the book of the History of Bel and the Dragon, and The Prayer of Manasseh King of the Jews.

All of these books have some unique stuff in them such as in the story of Esther it is said that Esther actually put human poop in her hair to show her depth of morning. Bel and the Dragon is about how the Prophet Danial actually killed a real live dragon. 1 & 2 Esdras are about prophecy both past and future and many of them actually line up with prophecy in the book of Danial. My research has lead me to believe that 1 & 2 Esdras are actually books written by Ezra and a very interesting thing about them is that Esdras was supposed to have been taken up to heaven without ever tasting of death and the death of Ezra is not recorded in the book of Ezra in the KJV. Judith who was a virtuous woman seduced an Assyrian general and save Israel by cutting his head off with 2 wackes. And so on.

Maybe you should study your version of the bible a little better and you should study a little more about your choice of denomination because if you did you would find out that Catholicism makes some pretty fantastic claims including but not limited to the belief that clergy are the only authorized by God people on the face of the earth who can properly interpreter scripture and the everybody else is wrong.

No insult given her just the facts.

Robert

We don't actually make that claim, just saying. I'm allowed to interpret scripture and I'm a teenage girl, a kid in my school's allowed to interpret scripture and he's athiest, does that mean he does interpret scripture, no. All my life I've been asked what scripture passages mean to me, in my religion text book which is used by Catholics across the country. I know my faith quite well, we do not make any claims too fantastic. As for those books, have them, just with different names, I couldn't find anything about the book of Burack or the Song of the Three Children online, I haven't searched for the last ones yet.

Don't tell me anything about the Book of Esther, I love that story, and Ruth and Maccabees, Esther was a strong woman who saved the lives of all of her people, she's one of my greatest role models.

Peace Out

~Beka

Without the help of the Holy Spirit (which means that one would need to be saved to recieve that Holy Spirit) no one can interpret scripture properly. It is one thing to read the book but another to feel the book down in your soul and it is impossible for your athiest friend to feel God or His word. I never said that Esther was bad. I was just pointing out what the book was saying. I find it very hard to believe that anybody would rub human poop in their hair for any reason. Which means that the Catholic apocrypha with regards to the "The Rest of the book of Esther" is at best very questionable. I was raised a Catholic and the Catholic religion does in deed make that claim and your youth and imiturity shows your rebellious nature.

[OneLight]

In my OP I stated that many will loose faith by false teachings. I would like to also include that some will fall away from the truth due to extra biblical teachings. What I have come to believe is that not everyone will leave the church because of their apostasy, but will remain in their churches believing that they are indeed following the God of the bible, when in fact they left the truth of His word.

When people add to scripture, like the writings from the lost books, a false faith develops. Yet, they will not know that they have left the truth because they still believe in God. Ideas? Concerns?

[princess2000]

I think the falling away has more to do with the media then the churches. Yes I think we should get back to more traditional beliefs, but traditional beliefs were that God really doesn't care for us, that he "holds us over the fires of hell like a woman holds a spider in her home over the fires" to quote my 9-greats-uncle-in-law Jonathan Edwards (his daughter married my 8-greats-uncle on my mom's mom's side of the family). Of course we know better now, we know that while being a just God, our God is one of love, not contempt. At the same time I recognize that if we don't change just a bit we will be lost with the times, but only one thing really truly must change, and that's our music, for even in the past that's the only factor besides the preacher's homily that has changed the most.

The reason I suspect the media has more to do with this problem is because of a preconception that has been shoved down my throat about people of other denominations, one that was never denied my my father's side of the family. See, I'm Catholic, and the way I always perceived people of other denominations are that they go around trying to "save your soul" door to door by getting you to join their faith and then go to some secret meeting where they share how many souls they saved and pick out prizes like girls selling girl scout cookies. The only denominations I actually felt comfortable around were my best friend's and my aunt on my mom's side's, and that was only because I would say something like "My church does (insert something my church would do)" and my best friend would go "Oh, my church does that to" and then we'd start comparing similarities. The reason for my fear of the others is because my aunt out right told my dad he was going to hell because he was Catholic when he was younger (after my great-grandfather's death my dad became the only Catholic until I was born) and whenever my uncle visits from New Hampshire it's always a religious debate between him and my dad, and of course I always have to jump in because I know more about Catholicism then my dad.

The other thing the media says is that you'd have to be a freak to be religious, that being athletic and religious don't mix or that being normal and religious don't mix. The media says that by being religious you are automatically a freak and people don't want to be labeled as freaks so they shove off religion as something that's there when they need a rant. That's really all they use it for, as an outlet to scream at God when things aren't going their way.

Peace out

~Beka

... Oh My! You really believed this about other churches?

Tthe media has nothing to do with the falling away, Christians do. Just because they may say something, doesn't mean you have to believe it.

I agree. Though the media might or does contribute to the humanist and antichrist agenda Beka is right. If we fall away because we listened to the media that we actually a choice and not a con. We are responsible for researching the word of God no matter what denomination we are in if any at all. What does scripture say " We must study to be approved of God". Unfortunately the Catholic church has it,s own version of the bible and there are some differences between the KJV for example and the Catholic bible. If I were you I would forget about any denominational differences and start reading and comparing other bible versions. If you study and read the Catholic bible and no other bible and the Catholic bible is wrong about something and you believe wrongly that is your fault because you didn't research what you have been taught. Personally I do not trust any denominational teachings. I rely on bible study tools that are not influenced by any man or denomination and believe me there are many so called accurate bible lexicons, dictionaries and more. I believe that the older the bible lexicon or dictionary the closer we are to the original meaning of any given word.

Yes, we have our own version of the bible, it's longer then the KJV. And other then minuet word differences, the only major differences are Maccabees 1 &2, and parts of Ruth and Tobit. Parts that to my understanding had been taken out because at the time of their removal nobody could find their original original Hebrew manuscripts. About 500 years later the original original Hebrew manuscripts were found in the form of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Again, my understanding.

The other thing is, and I'm probably going to spend a little bit more time in purgatory for this, I see churches as sea shells, they are similar and different and there are a multitude of them. But what makes one sea shell irreplaceable for one person may be trash for another. Translation: While I recognize that God wants us to be one church, one church is a "perfect fit" for somebody, Catholicism becomes that irreplaceable shell for me, the Lutheran church for my best friend, Episcopalian for my Aunt, your denomination for you.

Peace out

~Beka

Actually you have forgotten about 1 & 2 Esdras, the book of Judith, the Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiaticus, the book of Burak, the Song of the Three Children, the book of the History of Susanna, the book of the History of Bel and the Dragon, and The Prayer of Manasseh King of the Jews.

All of these books have some unique stuff in them such as in the story of Esther it is said that Esther actually put human poop in her hair to show her depth of morning. Bel and the Dragon is about how the Prophet Danial actually killed a real live dragon. 1 & 2 Esdras are about prophecy both past and future and many of them actually line up with prophecy in the book of Danial. My research has lead me to believe that 1 & 2 Esdras are actually books written by Ezra and a very interesting thing about them is that Esdras was supposed to have been taken up to heaven without ever tasting of death and the death of Ezra is not recorded in the book of Ezra in the KJV. Judith who was a virtuous woman seduced an Assyrian general and save Israel by cutting his head off with 2 wackes. And so on.

Maybe you should study your version of the bible a little better and you should study a little more about your choice of denomination because if you did you would find out that Catholicism makes some pretty fantastic claims including but not limited to the belief that clergy are the only authorized by God people on the face of the earth who can properly interpreter scripture and the everybody else is wrong.

No insult given her just the facts.

Robert

We don't actually make that claim, just saying. I'm allowed to interpret scripture and I'm a teenage girl, a kid in my school's allowed to interpret scripture and he's athiest, does that mean he does interpret scripture, no. All my life I've been asked what scripture passages mean to me, in my religion text book which is used by Catholics across the country. I know my faith quite well, we do not make any claims too fantastic. As for those books, have them, just with different names, I couldn't find anything about the book of Burack or the Song of the Three Children online, I haven't searched for the last ones yet.

Don't tell me anything about the Book of Esther, I love that story, and Ruth and Maccabees, Esther was a strong woman who saved the lives of all of her people, she's one of my greatest role models.

Peace Out

~Beka

Without the help of the Holy Spirit (which means that one would need to be saved to recieve that Holy Spirit) no one can interpret scripture properly. It is one thing to read the book but another to feel the book down in your soul and it is impossible for your athiest friend to feel God or His word. I never said that Esther was bad. I was just pointing out what the book was saying. I find it very hard to believe that anybody would rub human poop in their hair for any reason. Which means that the Catholic apocrypha with regards to the "The Rest of the book of Esther" is at best very questionable. I was raised a Catholic and the Catholic religion does in deed make that claim and your youth and imiturity shows your rebellious nature.

For the record, I'm not actually friends with the athiest, he's freinds with a close friend of mine, but we aren't actually friends, asside from the basic name, religion, what type of music do you listen to, I know nothing about him. As for the Holy Spirit, I know I have it. I didn't say you said Esther was bad, I was telling you I don't need instruction on the book. Honestly I don't find it hard to believe that somebody would rub human poop into their hair, but I think she just sat in the poop. Anyway, isn't it more the message here that's important, not the actual details, Esther mourned the decision her husband made, she did these things to show her sadness, even if she didn't do something specificly it was an extream used to show sad she was. Besides, the story was actually written down long after it took place, when the Isrialites returned from their exile, in the telling to generations some things may have been streached for dramatical purposes.

Peace out

~Beka

[OneLight]

I think the falling away has more to do with the media then the churches. Yes I think we should get back to more traditional beliefs, but traditional beliefs were that God really doesn't care for us, that he "holds us over the fires of hell like a woman holds a spider in her home over the fires" to quote my 9-greats-uncle-in-law Jonathan Edwards (his daughter married my 8-greats-uncle on my mom's mom's side of the family). Of course we know better now, we know that while being a just God, our God is one of love, not contempt. At the same time I recognize that if we don't change just a bit we will be lost with the times, but only one thing really truly must change, and that's our music, for even in the past that's the only factor besides the preacher's homily that has changed the most.

The reason I suspect the media has more to do with this problem is because of a preconception that has been shoved down my throat about people of other denominations, one that was never denied my my father's side of the family. See, I'm Catholic, and the way I always perceived people of other denominations are that they go around trying to "save your soul" door to door by getting you to join their faith and then go to some secret meeting where they share how many souls they saved and pick out prizes like girls selling girl scout cookies. The only denominations I actually felt comfortable around were my best friend's and my aunt on my mom's side's, and that was only because I would say something like "My church does (insert something my church would do)" and my best friend would go "Oh, my church does that to" and then we'd start comparing similarities. The reason for my fear of the others is because my aunt out right told my dad he was going to hell because he was Catholic when he was younger (after my great-grandfather's death my dad became the only Catholic until I was born) and whenever my uncle visits from New Hampshire it's always a religious debate between him and my dad, and of course I always have to jump in because I know more about Catholicism then my dad.

The other thing the media says is that you'd have to be a freak to be religious, that being athletic and religious don't mix or that being normal and religious don't mix. The media says that by being religious you are automatically a freak and people don't want to be labeled as freaks so they shove off religion as something that's there when they need a rant. That's really all they use it for, as an outlet to scream at God when things aren't going their way.

Peace out

~Beka

... Oh My! You really believed this about other churches?

Tthe media has nothing to do with the falling away, Christians do. Just because they may say something, doesn't mean you have to believe it.

I agree. Though the media might or does contribute to the humanist and antichrist agenda Beka is right. If we fall away because we listened to the media that we actually a choice and not a con. We are responsible for researching the word of God no matter what denomination we are in if any at all. What does scripture say " We must study to be approved of God". Unfortunately the Catholic church has it,s own version of the bible and there are some differences between the KJV for example and the Catholic bible. If I were you I would forget about any denominational differences and start reading and comparing other bible versions. If you study and read the Catholic bible and no other bible and the Catholic bible is wrong about something and you believe wrongly that is your fault because you didn't research what you have been taught. Personally I do not trust any denominational teachings. I rely on bible study tools that are not influenced by any man or denomination and believe me there are many so called accurate bible lexicons, dictionaries and more. I believe that the older the bible lexicon or dictionary the closer we are to the original meaning of any given word.

Yes, we have our own version of the bible, it's longer then the KJV. And other then minuet word differences, the only major differences are Maccabees 1 &2, and parts of Ruth and Tobit. Parts that to my understanding had been taken out because at the time of their removal nobody could find their original original Hebrew manuscripts. About 500 years later the original original Hebrew manuscripts were found in the form of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Again, my understanding.

The other thing is, and I'm probably going to spend a little bit more time in purgatory for this, I see churches as sea shells, they are similar and different and there are a multitude of them. But what makes one sea shell irreplaceable for one person may be trash for another. Translation: While I recognize that God wants us to be one church, one church is a "perfect fit" for somebody, Catholicism becomes that irreplaceable shell for me, the Lutheran church for my best friend, Episcopalian for my Aunt, your denomination for you.

Peace out

~Beka

Actually you have forgotten about 1 & 2 Esdras, the book of Judith, the Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiaticus, the book of Burak, the Song of the Three Children, the book of the History of Susanna, the book of the History of Bel and the Dragon, and The Prayer of Manasseh King of the Jews.

All of these books have some unique stuff in them such as in the story of Esther it is said that Esther actually put human poop in her hair to show her depth of morning. Bel and the Dragon is about how the Prophet Danial actually killed a real live dragon. 1 & 2 Esdras are about prophecy both past and future and many of them actually line up with prophecy in the book of Danial. My research has lead me to believe that 1 & 2 Esdras are actually books written by Ezra and a very interesting thing about them is that Esdras was supposed to have been taken up to heaven without ever tasting of death and the death of Ezra is not recorded in the book of Ezra in the KJV. Judith who was a virtuous woman seduced an Assyrian general and save Israel by cutting his head off with 2 wackes. And so on.

Maybe you should study your version of the bible a little better and you should study a little more about your choice of denomination because if you did you would find out that Catholicism makes some pretty fantastic claims including but not limited to the belief that clergy are the only authorized by God people on the face of the earth who can properly interpreter scripture and the everybody else is wrong.

No insult given her just the facts.

Robert

We don't actually make that claim, just saying. I'm allowed to interpret scripture and I'm a teenage girl, a kid in my school's allowed to interpret scripture and he's athiest, does that mean he does interpret scripture, no. All my life I've been asked what scripture passages mean to me, in my religion text book which is used by Catholics across the country. I know my faith quite well, we do not make any claims too fantastic. As for those books, have them, just with different names, I couldn't find anything about the book of Burack or the Song of the Three Children online, I haven't searched for the last ones yet.

Don't tell me anything about the Book of Esther, I love that story, and Ruth and Maccabees, Esther was a strong woman who saved the lives of all of her people, she's one of my greatest role models.

Peace Out

~Beka

Without the help of the Holy Spirit (which means that one would need to be saved to recieve that Holy Spirit) no one can interpret scripture properly. It is one thing to read the book but another to feel the book down in your soul and it is impossible for your athiest friend to feel God or His word. I never said that Esther was bad. I was just pointing out what the book was saying. I find it very hard to believe that anybody would rub human poop in their hair for any reason. Which means that the Catholic apocrypha with regards to the "The Rest of the book of Esther" is at best very questionable. I was raised a Catholic and the Catholic religion does in deed make that claim and your youth and imiturity shows your rebellious nature.

For the record, I'm not actually friends with the athiest, he's freinds with a close friend of mine, but we aren't actually friends, asside from the basic name, religion, what type of music do you listen to, I know nothing about him. As for the Holy Spirit, I know I have it. I didn't say you said Esther was bad, I was telling you I don't need instruction on the book. Honestly I don't find it hard to believe that somebody would rub human poop into their hair, but I think she just sat in the poop. Anyway, isn't it more the message here that's important, not the actual details, Esther mourned the decision her husband made, she did these things to show her sadness, even if she didn't do something specificly it was an extream used to show sad she was. Besides, the story was actually written down long after it took place, when the Isrialites returned from their exile, in the telling to generations some things may have been streached for dramatical purposes.

Peace out

~Beka

This seems like a conversation that should be in PM. It has little to do with the apostasy. Please, if you have something to add to the subject matter, do so. Otherwise, please use the PM function to continue your discussion.

Thank You and God Bless,

Alan

[Massorite]

In my OP I stated that many will loose faith by false teachings. I would like to also include that some will fall away from the truth due to extra biblical teachings. What I have come to believe is that not everyone will leave the church because of their apostasy, but will remain in their churches believing that they are indeed following the God of the bible, when in fact they left the truth of His word.

When people add to scripture, like the writings from the lost books, a false faith develops. Yet, they will not know that they have left the truth because they still believe in God. Ideas? Concerns?

I agree Onelight. That is already happening as we speak. The word has been twisted and people believe that it is of God. Confusions has begun to rule.

[humbleseeker]

I have to say the church is doing it to themselves. Trying to gain numbers and turning away from the bible. People see that and do not want a church that flaps around like waves in the sea. People want a church that will stand for what they believe in. Not just a feel good social group. Remeber "this to shall pass" works both ways. I wont poke fingers although I could but churches that promote homosexuality, and or other sins. Also churches that are very mystical, were the people do not get much meat to stand on and only are fed milk. They will get bored with that.

[OneLight]

I have to say the church is doing it to themselves. Trying to gain numbers and turning away from the bible. People see that and do not want a church that flaps around like waves in the sea. People want a church that will stand for what they believe in. Not just a feel good social group. Remeber "this to shall pass" works both ways. I wont poke fingers although I could but churches that promote homosexuality, and or other sins. Also churches that are very mystical, were the people do not get much meat to stand on and only are fed milk. They will get bored with that.

For those who are seeking the truth, they sure will, but, unfortunately, I would take the chance to say that most who go to church are doing so out of guilt more then to contribute to the Lord. Many like to have their ears tickled, supporting their lifestyle. Look through some of the biggest TV preachers today. THey are ear ticklers, promise givers to those who want more of the world.

Going to church does not make one a Christian no more then sitting in a garage makes one a car.

[Guest man]

Going to church does not make one a Christian no more then sitting in a garage makes one a car.