Apostasy

[Jeremiah Joel]

I do see a great falling away. A falling from the foundational principles of Heb 6:1-2. The thoughts on these principles in Heb 6:1-2 is the foundation of our faith..... which is all over the place, just depends on who you are talking to. On some points we may agree and some not.

These principles is only the basement of Christian faith, to take us on unto perfection in Christ. If we were to take the doctrine of baptisms as an example; I would say I have heard about 5 or so basic teachings on baptism... all totally diverse one from another if really examined.

I do not what this thread to get into a talk of baptism.. that is not what this tread is about. Just using it as a example on how scattered people are on just that one teaching. I see falling away from the truth of the teaching of the foundational principles.

To hear the voice: "this is the way walk in it".

Jeremiah

[The Quiet One]

Consider this, with all the conversation about what is going on today, what about the possibility that the main apostasy already happened many centuries ago?

For example, just a few questions.

Why was Polycarp burned at the stake in Rome but Anicetus survived for nearly a decade?

What are the wages of sin?

Can a religion that has been coupled with the power of the State remain pure?

Just consider these things.

To The King!

[OneLight]

Consider this, with all the conversation about what is going on today, what about the possibility that the main apostasy already happened many centuries ago?

For example, just a few questions.

Why was Polycarp burned at the stake in Rome but Anicetus survived for nearly a decade?

What are the wages of sin?

Can a religion that has been coupled with the power of the State remain pure?

Just consider these things.

To The King!

It doesn't matter what happened centuries ago when discussing the end times, unless you consider the end times starting when the church began, which I don't for many reasons and that discussion should be another thread all together. But, I will give a very simple answer to your suggestion.

Read again the scripture ...

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12

The Great Apostasy

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

If you will notice, "Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." The two go together. The son of perdition still has not been reveled and that would follow the falling away and the restrainer being taken out of the way.

[Guest]

....Consider this, with all the conversation about what is going on today, what about the possibility that the main apostasy already happened many centuries ago?....

Consider This

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 24:11-13

Consider this

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Matthew 24:23-24

Consider this

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:3-4

Consider this

For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

Luke 9:26

Consider this

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NASB)

Consider this

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Romans 10:17

Consider this

I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:

preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

2 Timothy 4:1-5 (NASB)

And The Big One

[The Quiet One]

FresnoJoe,

Thank you, and I do consider these things, and I carry a troubled brow, as there are so many that believe in so many different ways. Even with me, here on this board, we read the same scripture and apparently see different things.

All I can do is continue to study, to earnestly seek the truth. I have grown wary of men. I see different supposed 'men of God' teach things that are almost completely contradictory, and yet they both proclaim faith in Jesus Christ.

How will we ever have unity?

[The Quiet One]

12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Beccar, thank you for that word, as it has settled my mind a bit. I know that I have different beliefs than some here, and I pray that all understand that I am seeking the truth, and hope for all of us to find it.

To The King!

[Smalcald]

FresnoJoe,

Thank you, and I do consider these things, and I carry a troubled brow, as there are so many that believe in so many different ways. Even with me, here on this board, we read the same scripture and apparently see different things.

All I can do is continue to study, to earnestly seek the truth. I have grown wary of men. I see different supposed 'men of God' teach things that are almost completely contradictory, and yet they both proclaim faith in Jesus Christ.

How will we ever have unity?

I wonder about unity also? Did we go horribly wrong back in 1550?

But then I figure this is above my pay grade. For some reason right now in God's divine providence the Body of Christ His Church is divided on this earth, that however does not mean we cannot rest in His Word and know that with true faith we have salvation. We are united in true faith in Christ as our Lord. But the problem of course is that if we dig a little below the details we start to disagree.

[The Quiet One]

Smal......hello,

Actually, I think we need to back up to about 150AD and start looking there. For instance, why was Polyarp burned at the stake in Rome while Anicetus lived for another ten years? After all, Anicetus was the Bishop of Rome, Polycarp was from Smyrna....so how did Anicetus manage to get a pass?

But those are discussions for another day.

Be Blessed!! To The King!

[Massorite]

Consider this, with all the conversation about what is going on today, what about the possibility that the main apostasy already happened many centuries ago?

For example, just a few questions.

Why was Polycarp burned at the stake in Rome but Anicetus survived for nearly a decade?

What are the wages of sin?

Can a religion that has been coupled with the power of the State remain pure?

Just consider these things.

To The King!

Impossible. The apostasy of bible prophecy will be a world wide apostasy in a one world wide religion that will be recognized by all nations of the world which has never happened in the past nor in the present. A quick research on Anicetus showed me that he spoken out against heresies such as Monetarism and Gnosticism, was open minded about the passover feast and died for his beliefs. What was so bad about him?

In the bible there is no such a thing as the separation of church and state. In the bible God meant for His people to be governed by a Theocracy.

[Smalcald]

Consider this, with all the conversation about what is going on today, what about the possibility that the main apostasy already happened many centuries ago?

For example, just a few questions.

Why was Polycarp burned at the stake in Rome but Anicetus survived for nearly a decade?

What are the wages of sin?

Can a religion that has been coupled with the power of the State remain pure?

Just consider these things.

To The King!

Impossible. The apostasy of bible prophecy will be a world wide apostasy in a one world wide religion that will be recognized by all nations of the world which has never happened in the past nor in the present. A quick research on Anicetus showed me that he spoken out against heresies such as Monetarism and Gnosticism, was open minded about the passover feast and died for his beliefs. What was so bad about him?

In the bible there is no such a thing as the separation of church and state. In the bible God meant for His people to be governed by a Theocracy.

No not really. In the bible God Himself said to let people in government govern;that we should not seek power, that we should be a separate people, God said that we are not of this world. IF we were to be a theocracy Christ would have been a secular King, but Christ who is God, the center of our faith did just the inverse and did not seek secular nor political power, but set up a spiritual kingdom. Now we are to be governed by a Theocracy in our day to day lives, that is the life of the day to day visible Church, which is demonstrated clearly in Acts. We are to worship daily, to share our food and take meals together daily, to take care of each other, we are to own our assets in common without private property, it should all belong to the Church.

But the fact is that would be total insanity to even bring up in today's congregations as we all totally reject all Church authority we are individualists who follow our own ways and desires. This of course is the problem.