Apostasy

[Fraught]

So, as I read down through the replies, I find that through the freedom of religion (which is diminishing), we are free to develop what ever we wish, twisting scripture to fit our wishes, or tickle the ears of many. We have left our first love, becoming more like the world. Some have chased after cults. All because we have a freedom to worship however we please, not tested by the fire.

Sounds like what we need is to have to go underground, hunted for our faith, in order to find our first love once again. Interesting. I can see this happening in our future. Is this what the US and Europe is going to have to endure in order to return to Christ and not fall away?

it's funny you said that !!!! i recently heard a prophetic sermon by david wilkerson that stated something similar. mainstream church will become powerful and influential and practice tolerance and be devoted to social reform. the real church will be underground but will be very poweful spiritually.

already, christians in america face persecution. not physically, but we do face much ridicule. those in the lower or lower middle class that are non-professional are left alone more than others. how many lawyers, business executives, doctors and scientists have to hide their beliefs? i think you'd be surprised at the number.

another thing for you to ponder, though: some say the falling away happened when islam broke off. muhammed the false prophet, started a new religion then. so, perhaps, the real apostasy has already occured.

[OneLight]

So, as I read down through the replies, I find that through the freedom of religion (which is diminishing), we are free to develop what ever we wish, twisting scripture to fit our wishes, or tickle the ears of many. We have left our first love, becoming more like the world. Some have chased after cults. All because we have a freedom to worship however we please, not tested by the fire.

Sounds like what we need is to have to go underground, hunted for our faith, in order to find our first love once again. Interesting. I can see this happening in our future. Is this what the US and Europe is going to have to endure in order to return to Christ and not fall away?

it's funny you said that !!!! i recently heard a prophetic sermon by david wilkerson that stated something similar. mainstream church will become powerful and influential and practice tolerance and be devoted to social reform. the real church will be underground but will be very poweful spiritually.

already, christians in america face persecution. not physically, but we do face much ridicule. those in the lower or lower middle class that are non-professional are left alone more than others. how many lawyers, business executives, doctors and scientists have to hide their beliefs? i think you'd be surprised at the number.

another thing for you to ponder, though: some say the falling away happened when islam broke off. muhammed the false prophet, started a new religion then. so, perhaps, the real apostasy has already occured.

If the event did not fall in scripture where it does, I may tend to agree. Let's take a look ...

2 Thessalonians 2

The Great Apostasy

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Scripture sets a timetable where the and connects the two in a way that could not really refer to a space of almost 1400 years.

[Guest man]

I am mainly concerned about simple basic core doctrines, things which I thought were not even open to debate for a Christian.

You'd be surprised at how important those "simple basic core doctrines" are.

[Massorite]

I think the falling away has more to do with the media then the churches. Yes I think we should get back to more traditional beliefs, but traditional beliefs were that God really doesn't care for us, that he "holds us over the fires of hell like a woman holds a spider in her home over the fires" to quote my 9-greats-uncle-in-law Jonathan Edwards (his daughter married my 8-greats-uncle on my mom's mom's side of the family). Of course we know better now, we know that while being a just God, our God is one of love, not contempt. At the same time I recognize that if we don't change just a bit we will be lost with the times, but only one thing really truly must change, and that's our music, for even in the past that's the only factor besides the preacher's homily that has changed the most.

The reason I suspect the media has more to do with this problem is because of a preconception that has been shoved down my throat about people of other denominations, one that was never denied my my father's side of the family. See, I'm Catholic, and the way I always perceived people of other denominations are that they go around trying to "save your soul" door to door by getting you to join their faith and then go to some secret meeting where they share how many souls they saved and pick out prizes like girls selling girl scout cookies. The only denominations I actually felt comfortable around were my best friend's and my aunt on my mom's side's, and that was only because I would say something like "My church does (insert something my church would do)" and my best friend would go "Oh, my church does that to" and then we'd start comparing similarities. The reason for my fear of the others is because my aunt out right told my dad he was going to hell because he was Catholic when he was younger (after my great-grandfather's death my dad became the only Catholic until I was born) and whenever my uncle visits from New Hampshire it's always a religious debate between him and my dad, and of course I always have to jump in because I know more about Catholicism then my dad.

The other thing the media says is that you'd have to be a freak to be religious, that being athletic and religious don't mix or that being normal and religious don't mix. The media says that by being religious you are automatically a freak and people don't want to be labeled as freaks so they shove off religion as something that's there when they need a rant. That's really all they use it for, as an outlet to scream at God when things aren't going their way.

Peace out

~Beka

... Oh My! You really believed this about other churches?

Tthe media has nothing to do with the falling away, Christians do. Just because they may say something, doesn't mean you have to believe it.

I agree. Though the media might or does contribute to the humanist and antichrist agenda Beka is right. If we fall away because we listened to the media that we actually a choice and not a con. We are responsible for researching the word of God no matter what denomination we are in if any at all. What does scripture say " We must study to be approved of God". Unfortunately the Catholic church has it,s own version of the bible and there are some differences between the KJV for example and the Catholic bible. If I were you I would forget about any denominational differences and start reading and comparing other bible versions. If you study and read the Catholic bible and no other bible and the Catholic bible is wrong about something and you believe wrongly that is your fault because you didn't research what you have been taught. Personally I do not trust any denominational teachings. I rely on bible study tools that are not influenced by any man or denomination and believe me there are many so called accurate bible lexicons, dictionaries and more. I believe that the older the bible lexicon or dictionary the closer we are to the original meaning of any given word.

[Guest man]

And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

There are so many things that fall into that catagory. Little things that people never give a second thought about. Little things that could mean the difference as to where one spends eternity.

[OneLight]

And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

There are so many things that fall into that catagory. Little things that people never give a second thought about. Little things that could mean the difference as to where one spends eternity.

That is a loaded statement bro. As you can see, this pleasure is brought about by following Satan.

[Guest man]

And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

There are so many things that fall into that catagory. Little things that people never give a second thought about. Little things that could mean the difference as to where one spends eternity.

That is a loaded statement bro. As you can see, this pleasure is brought about by following Satan.

Actually it's not a loaded question. It's fact.

And what pleasures would you be speaking of?

[Massorite]

And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

There are so many things that fall into that catagory. Little things that people never give a second thought about. Little things that could mean the difference as to where one spends eternity.

Now that is a jymongus (bigger then huge) point of wisdom.

[OneLight]

And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

There are so many things that fall into that catagory. Little things that people never give a second thought about. Little things that could mean the difference as to where one spends eternity.

That is a loaded statement bro. As you can see, this pleasure is brought about by following Satan.

Actually it's not a loaded question. It's fact.

And what pleasures would you be speaking of?

To be honest, we don't know what those pleasure will be until Satan takes the stand. I, for one, will never know. From what the verse tells us, these pleasures derive from following Satan's false teachings. There may be more to his bag of tricks then we know of ...

[Guest man]

And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

There are so many things that fall into that catagory. Little things that people never give a second thought about. Little things that could mean the difference as to where one spends eternity.

That is a loaded statement bro. As you can see, this pleasure is brought about by following Satan.

Actually it's not a loaded question. It's fact.

And what pleasures would you be speaking of?

To be honest, we don't know what those pleasure will be until Satan takes the stand. I, for one, will never know. From what the verse tells us, these pleasures derive from following Satan's false teachings. There may be more to his bag of tricks then we know of ...

"Who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness", is a reference to all who have heard the truth but refuse to listen. It is a reference directed toward believers and non-believers alike.

One doesn't have to be an outright follower of satan to fall within the boundaries of that statement.