Who was Jesus speaking to?

[OneLight]

I sat in church last Wednesday and heard a preacher tell everyone that we can all stand on the verse of John 14:12, where Jesus told His disciples; "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."

When I first started in the Pentecostal church, I stood on this scripture as meaning that everyone who has the Holy Spirit in them should be able to preform all that Christ did and then more. As I matured in Him, I now see this differently.

Jesus would often take His disciples, those that He personally chose to fulfill His ministry, and taught them separately. His reasons was that what He would teach them were not for everyone to know. I have come to believe that this promise Jesus gave to the disciples is for everyone in the body.

Here is what scripture tells us, from John 14:7-14, NKJV. They were at the Lords Supper at the time Jesus spoke these words where only the disciples were there with Him.

"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him."

Philip said to Him,

[Believer1997]

Jesus knew His time was almost nigh ... I think He shows a little frustration - He spent so much time speaking with each of them, talking to them, explaining - and to have Phillip ask for some type of verification was probably frustrating...

He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say,

[Guest yod]

The thing that I love most about the "old testament" is the stories of real people doing amazing things in faith....

The western church tends to over spiritualize the abilities of the disciples and apostles. These were plain folks in the Galilee. For these people to have "seen a great light shine upon them" (Isaiah 9) would be akin to the state of Arkansas becoming the spiritual capital of America.

Anything they can do in the Lord, we can also do....that's the point.

Being "in the Lord" is the trick.

[OneLight]

I agree with both replies, to some extent. I agree completely with what Yod said when he stated ""in the Lord"". I feel this is also the answer to Believers statement "I pray it means not only the disciples but, us." The difference I have seen throughout scripture IS how dedicated those He choose were in Him compared to the thousands Jesus preached to otherwise.

What are the differences? How close are we really to Christ? How much have we surrendered to His will in our lives is the key. When Jesus made the two statements; “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.", He knew that His will was their will also. They gave Him everything that they had to give. They left everything behind and followed Him. I see the major majority of those who stand on these promises being from the thousands Jesus preached to and not the inner circle as His disciples were.

This brings up another issue. Are we being discipled correctly so we can enter into a fully surrendered life with Christ? His time is drawing near, and from a few whom I have talked with, the one desire they all have in common is to walk as Christ had walked. They seem to have a sense that they are being called to a deeper walk, not satisfied where they are now, even though they are grounded in the word and have a solid foundation in Christ. Why is this? Is Christ calling out some to a deepness in Him that has not been for some time in the last days?

[Believer1997]

I agree with both replies, to some extent. I agree completely with what Yod said when he stated ""in the Lord"". I feel this is also the answer to Believers statement "I pray it means not only the disciples but, us." The difference I have seen throughout scripture IS how dedicated those He choose were in Him compared to the thousands Jesus preached to otherwise.

What are the differences? How close are we really to Christ? How much have we surrendered to His will in our lives is the key. When Jesus made the two statements;

[Guest shiloh357]

It is my conviction that the context pertains to a conversation between Jesus and His disciples/soon to be Apostles. They are the primary audience to whom His words are being directed. The promises are primarily apostolic. That is not to say there cannot be a wider application for all believers, but the immediate context must be kept in mind.

"Greater works" is not limited to Jesus' miracles. Jesus does not refer to "greater" in terms of nature, but in quanity and include more than just miracles but the whole of His ministry (4:34; 5:36; 10:32; 17:4). This was true in terms of scope as the aposltes' ministries fulfilled Jesus' promise many times over in that while Jesus' limited His scope of ministry to within the borders of Israel, the apostles had a much further reach which was only possible because of the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit.

[OneLight]

I hope I have not confused you by my statement of walking as Christ walked. We could never be as He was in this lifetime, but like those He chose, there are some who He knows will lay all they are down from Him. I imagine that those who do would allow Him to live completely in and through them, so all that others see is Christ. This is what I meant.

[Believer1997]

I hope I have not confused you by my statement of walking as Christ walked. We could never as He was in this lifetime, but like those He chose, there are some who He knows will lay all they are down from Him. I imagine that those who do would allow Him to live completely in and through them, so all that others see is Christ. This is what I meant.

Beloved Brother, I am easily confused ... I am so amazed by the power and glory of our Lord and that He is able to forgive me for all I've said and thought and done that was not pleasing - I cannot ever hope to think I could possibly walk as He walked... I have - in my spiritual life - total peace now. I pray daily that others do see His Love in me and that I am able to be a conduit for Him. I explained one time to you that I did not often participate in Biblical theorem and discussion, because I feel so unable to explain my feelings and thoughts - I'm all thumbs here....

[OneLight]

It is my conviction that the context pertains to a conversation between Jesus and His disciples/soon to be Apostles. They are the primary audience to whom His words are being directed. The promises are primarily apostolic. That is not to say there cannot be a wider application for all believers, but the immediate context must be kept in mind.

"Greater works" is not limited to Jesus' miracles. Jesus does not refer to "greater" in terms of nature, but in quanity and include more than just miracles but the whole of His ministry (4:34; 5:36; 10:32; 17:4). This was true in terms of scope as the aposltes' ministries fulfilled Jesus' promise many times over in that while Jesus' limited His scope of ministry to within the borders of Israel, the apostles had a much further reach which was only possible because of the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit.

If I read this correctly, you believe ti wrong to teach/preach that because we have the Holy Spirit in us, we should be able to do all the Christ did? Miracles, raising the dead, healing, casting out demons, and being able to tell someone everything they did in their life? This is basically what this preacher was saying.

[Miss Elly]

I sat in church last Wednesday and heard a preacher tell everyone that we can all stand on the verse of John 14:12, where Jesus told His disciples; "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."

When I first started in the Pentecostal church, I stood on this scripture as meaning that everyone who has the Holy Spirit in them should be able to preform all that Christ did and then more. As I matured in Him, I now see this differently.

Jesus would often take His disciples, those that He personally chose to fulfill His ministry, and taught them separately. His reasons was that what He would teach them were not for everyone to know. I have come to believe that this promise Jesus gave to the disciples is for everyone in the body.

Here is what scripture tells us, from John 14:7-14, NKJV. They were at the Lords Supper at the time Jesus spoke these words where only the disciples were there with Him.

"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him."

Philip said to Him,