From the Foundation of the World

[tsth]

Reminds me of this story:

                        Black Dog/White Dog

There was a circuit riding preacher, and whenever he came to this one town, there was this Indian brave who would always show up for his service. He would always leave right after the service was over because the white people didn't much care to have him around, and he didn't want to stay where he wasn't wanted, but he was there for every service.

One day the preacher decided that it was part of his job to get to know every person in his congregation, and he knew everybody really well except for this one Indian, so he decided to go talk to him. Directly after the service that morning the preacher walked off towards the woods that the Indian would disappear into, and got there ahead of the Indian so that they could talk. He asked the Indian how his walk with the Lord was going.

The Indian replied, "There is a white dog, and a black dog inside of me, and they fight."

The preacher then asked, "Which one is winning?"

To that the Indian answered, "Which ever one I feed."

[CWJ]

Ha! good one tsth!  Like Paul wrote, the spirit (white dog) and the flesh (black dog) are constantly warring.

DadErnie.....as for one thing to note on Rev22:18-19....You have to assume that it is talking to one saved!(that a saved person would do the abomination being described)   You also have to assume that "part" means the same as name written in, so I suggest strongly you are jumping to conclusions not clearly present in these verses.

These facts you need to support your position are just not there!  Although, based on the Lord's will given to us in scriptures, we can deduct a "saved place" in the book of life.

Read 2Peter3:9......if God finalized the list of saints in the foundation of the world then He went against His own will!  It means He willed some to go to the devil's hell!  NOT

When bringing up Saul from the OT, you are now not comparing apples to apples.

In the NT we are in salvation through a NEW BIRTH, different from the OT.  We are new creatures. We are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, constantly influenced to do God's will (Phil 2:13)

Please read back through my previous posts.

We cannot understand this mystery of God; we have free will, yet God foreknows it all.

But choose this day whom ye will serve.

Shadow2b....I think the predominate meaning of  akuo is "to hear out loud clearly", not "to understand" as in intellectualy. In Rev 22.

Also, can anyone show a plain verse that describes the names being written in at the foundation of the world?

Blessings to all, Carl...OSAS

[Adstar]

Hello All  

One accord:

God requires us to submit our will.

The very act of submitting our will takes free will.

CWJ:

Read 2Peter3:9......if God finalized the list of saints in the foundation of the world then He went against His own will!  It means He willed some to go to the devil's hell!  NOT

CWJ the doctrine that states this is predetermination: That is that YAHWEH had decided who will believe and who will not believe and through His power causes those that He Has Chosen to believe.

But I think Dad Ernie is not supporting this doctrine.  

I think Dad is talking about foreknowledge: That is the belief that YAWHEH knew all of history even before he created all existence, He knows who will accept the faith of their own free will and who will reject salvation. That He has known this since the beginning and this is how the names in the book of life have been in there from the beginning.

I still have not seen scriptures that support the idea that people can be added to the book of life? So please anyone give me the scriptures.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[eric]

Gidday dadE. I'll address this to you because you are the one who started this thread and a very interesring and contoversial thread it is. You stated at the beginning that there would be somr radical thoughts and you were right. sorry I,m late coming to the party,but I'm not very good at this sort of thing.Both Genisis and the gospel of John start with "in the beginning" so as far as I can see that would be the laying the foundation of the world and God writing his agenda concerning coming events. As I see it God, being omnecient, knew that man would fall or He wouln't have placed the tree of life in the garden. So if He knew that he also knew that man would have to reconciled back to Him

if man wanted to have eternal life. I also agree with you when you say that all names were written in the Lamb's BOL at the same time. I will not concede to the notion that God predistinated some to be saved and some would be on their way to damnation the moment they were born, but I will admit that He knew that some would, because, He knew that He would become flesh and make His dwelling place amoung men so that all who believed on Him would be saved. There is nowhere in the bible,as far as I know,that a man has to be

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings CWJ,

if God finalized the list of saints in the foundation of the world then He went against His own will!  It means He willed some to go to the devil's hell!  NOT

Adstar is correct, I am not saying God PREDESTINED either those to heaven, or those to hell (double predestination).

Had you read all my posts, you would see that what I believe is that Christ was in the world reconciling it to God "from the foundation of the Word, that is His heart was filled with prayers for those whom He FOREKNEW would be written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

The ONLY difficulty I have about the concept I have put forward is just WHEN someones name is removed (blotted out) of the Book. Since the Book is opened at the end of time, I do not know if it is when a person "rejects Christ - in time", or their name is blotted out at the Judgment Seat. From the scriptures given, either is possible.

As for my "misinterpretation" of Rev 22:18-19, it is not I that am "conjecturing", because I believe it is plain as to what it says. If you believe in OSAS, I can see why you would have trouble with this verse. There are many other verses which refute OSAS as well, IF you have ears to hear, but that is another thread.

Also, can anyone show a plain verse that describes the names being written in at the foundation of the world?

It has already been given you. I have asked YOU or anyone else to provide verses which show the names being written in the Book of Life at any other time than in the beginning.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[CWJ]

DErnie, I see where you are coming from. I was under the idea you were saying pre-destination.

OK...in Rev22 18-19, it says "any man".  So....with this wording all mankind has a "part".  The question is....does "part" mean a "space" reserved...or....a name already written in?  BIG QUESTION!

To already have it written, to later be "blotted out", seems to me to fit God's will of all men coming to repentance. In this situation one who rejects Christ is x'ed out. Or the opposite could work, a space reserved but never filled in. Really no problem either way, it just doesn't refute OSAS as you indicated.

Along that line of thought I have shown where the scriptural definition of an overcomer makes it clear in Rev3:5 that OSAS is the truth.  Having been re-born one is assured by scriptures of never being erased from the book of life.

The more I look at this, perhaps it is that the names are in there to begin with. I will look back at your post to see what verse you are talking about and look for any verse to do with the book of life.

I think we should discuss OSAS on another thread, as there is nothing to refute this truth.

Blessings, Carl