Do you still go to heaven if you commit suicide?

[Guest Butero]

So I am taking it you believe that every time a person sins, they lose their salvation until they repent

Nope, we don't loose our salvation every time we sin. However, we are known by our fruits. Just like we would be suspicious if a serial murderer or rapist claimed to have saving faith, we might also be uncertain about whether a self-murderer (suicider) has saving faith.

Then according to your logic, everyone's salvation is under question, since we all continue to sin. We should question the salvation of a person wh tells a lie, who over eats, who gossips. Any person's life could be looked at at a given isolated moment and faith not appear to be present (i.e. Abraham's little episode in Egypt with Sarah). If the person was trully saved before they sinned (what ever the sin is) the sin cannot separate them from God. If it can, then salvation is maintained by our righteousness.

Our salvation is a result of our faith. Once we are saved, we are taught to walk in the Spirit and if we do so, we will not fulfil the lusts of the flesh, and will not be under the law. When we stop walking in the Spirit, and we go back to sinning, we are in danger of losing our salvation. If we commit a wilful transgression, like suicide for instance, and have no opportunity to repent, the result will be a loss of salvation and eternity in hell. This has nothing to do with questioning other people's salvation. We need to be concerned with ourselves, but I do not believe a Christian can continue in sin and remain saved. If you want to call that a salvation where someone believes it is maintained by our righteousness, so be it, but I don't believe that either. God is the one that empowers us to live right. We cannot do it by ourselves. The key is walking in the Spirit, and trusting God to give us the grace to walk the Christian walk. As we drift away from God, then we have the law staring us in the face telling us right from wrong, but we cannot live by those laws in our own strength. We must get up trusting God in the morning, continue to do so throughout the day, and go to bed trusting in God to keep us. Pray without ceasing.

[Guest]

The Master's Voice

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 6:47

[EricH]

So I am taking it you believe that every time a person sins, they lose their salvation until they repent

Nope, we don't loose our salvation every time we sin. However, we are known by our fruits. Just like we would be suspicious if a serial murderer or rapist claimed to have saving faith, we might also be uncertain about whether a self-murderer (suicider) has saving faith.

Then according to your logic, everyone's salvation is under question, since we all continue to sin. We should question the salvation of a person wh tells a lie, who over eats, who gossips. Any person's life could be looked at at a given isolated moment and faith not appear to be present (i.e. Abraham's little episode in Egypt with Sarah). If the person was trully saved before they sinned (what ever the sin is) the sin cannot separate them from God. If it can, then salvation is maintained by our righteousness.

Our salvation is a result of our faith. Once we are saved, we are taught to walk in the Spirit and if we do so, we will not fulfil the lusts of the flesh, and will not be under the law. When we stop walking in the Spirit, and we go back to sinning, we are in danger of losing our salvation. If we commit a wilful transgression, like suicide for instance, and have no opportunity to repent, the result will be a loss of salvation and eternity in hell. This has nothing to do with questioning other people's salvation. We need to be concerned with ourselves, but I do not believe a Christian can continue in sin and remain saved. If you want to call that a salvation where someone believes it is maintained by our righteousness, so be it, but I don't believe that either. God is the one that empowers us to live right. We cannot do it by ourselves. The key is walking in the Spirit, and trusting God to give us the grace to walk the Christian walk. As we drift away from God, then we have the law staring us in the face telling us right from wrong, but we cannot live by those laws in our own strength. We must get up trusting God in the morning, continue to do so throughout the day, and go to bed trusting in God to keep us. Pray without ceasing.

So salvation is by faith, but maintained by works?

[Guest Butero]

So I am taking it you believe that every time a person sins, they lose their salvation until they repent

Nope, we don't loose our salvation every time we sin. However, we are known by our fruits. Just like we would be suspicious if a serial murderer or rapist claimed to have saving faith, we might also be uncertain about whether a self-murderer (suicider) has saving faith.

Then according to your logic, everyone's salvation is under question, since we all continue to sin. We should question the salvation of a person wh tells a lie, who over eats, who gossips. Any person's life could be looked at at a given isolated moment and faith not appear to be present (i.e. Abraham's little episode in Egypt with Sarah). If the person was trully saved before they sinned (what ever the sin is) the sin cannot separate them from God. If it can, then salvation is maintained by our righteousness.

Our salvation is a result of our faith. Once we are saved, we are taught to walk in the Spirit and if we do so, we will not fulfil the lusts of the flesh, and will not be under the law. When we stop walking in the Spirit, and we go back to sinning, we are in danger of losing our salvation. If we commit a wilful transgression, like suicide for instance, and have no opportunity to repent, the result will be a loss of salvation and eternity in hell. This has nothing to do with questioning other people's salvation. We need to be concerned with ourselves, but I do not believe a Christian can continue in sin and remain saved. If you want to call that a salvation where someone believes it is maintained by our righteousness, so be it, but I don't believe that either. God is the one that empowers us to live right. We cannot do it by ourselves. The key is walking in the Spirit, and trusting God to give us the grace to walk the Christian walk. As we drift away from God, then we have the law staring us in the face telling us right from wrong, but we cannot live by those laws in our own strength. We must get up trusting God in the morning, continue to do so throughout the day, and go to bed trusting in God to keep us. Pray without ceasing.

So salvation is by faith, but maintained by works?

Yes. James 2:14-26

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so, faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

[HAZARD]

The Master's Voice

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 6:47

I totally agree with you my brother Joe.

Some one who knowingly kills themselves for no other reason than to get away with something or to remove themselves from trouble or strife are not believing on Jesus and His death for us. They foolishly think their self afflicted death is sufficient.

I know a man who raped his daughter for many years from her age 9 to age 15 and when he was found out instead of facing his punishment and possibly repenting he killed himself. He told his wife when he was found out that he asked God to stop him from doing what he was doing when his daughter was age 10 but he kept it up for 5 more years, then killed himself. He had lost all chance of repenting and in my opinion after he killed himself, he is now lost.

We need to repent not kill ourselves. Christ died for us. No where in Scripture does it say if you commit an horrendous crime, dont depend on Jesus, dont repent, Just kill yourself.

Regards,

Haz.

[EricH]

So I am taking it you believe that every time a person sins, they lose their salvation until they repent

Nope, we don't loose our salvation every time we sin. However, we are known by our fruits. Just like we would be suspicious if a serial murderer or rapist claimed to have saving faith, we might also be uncertain about whether a self-murderer (suicider) has saving faith.

Then according to your logic, everyone's salvation is under question, since we all continue to sin. We should question the salvation of a person wh tells a lie, who over eats, who gossips. Any person's life could be looked at at a given isolated moment and faith not appear to be present (i.e. Abraham's little episode in Egypt with Sarah). If the person was trully saved before they sinned (what ever the sin is) the sin cannot separate them from God. If it can, then salvation is maintained by our righteousness.

Our salvation is a result of our faith. Once we are saved, we are taught to walk in the Spirit and if we do so, we will not fulfil the lusts of the flesh, and will not be under the law. When we stop walking in the Spirit, and we go back to sinning, we are in danger of losing our salvation. If we commit a wilful transgression, like suicide for instance, and have no opportunity to repent, the result will be a loss of salvation and eternity in hell. This has nothing to do with questioning other people's salvation. We need to be concerned with ourselves, but I do not believe a Christian can continue in sin and remain saved. If you want to call that a salvation where someone believes it is maintained by our righteousness, so be it, but I don't believe that either. God is the one that empowers us to live right. We cannot do it by ourselves. The key is walking in the Spirit, and trusting God to give us the grace to walk the Christian walk. As we drift away from God, then we have the law staring us in the face telling us right from wrong, but we cannot live by those laws in our own strength. We must get up trusting God in the morning, continue to do so throughout the day, and go to bed trusting in God to keep us. Pray without ceasing.

So salvation is by faith, but maintained by works?

Yes. James 2:14-26

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so, faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

That passage does not say that salvation is maintained by works. That is a theology called covenental nomism. It says that true faith will result in works. Works are the fruit of faith (See Ephesians 2:8-10 for the exact logical relationship.

[EricH]

Some one who knowingly kills themselves for no other reason than to get away with something or to remove themselves from trouble or strife are not believing on Jesus and His death for us. They foolishly think their self afflicted death is sufficient.

That is really an assumption more than an observation. No one can know what is going on the the heart and mind of a person at any time (other than God).

[Guest Butero]

So I am taking it you believe that every time a person sins, they lose their salvation until they repent

Nope, we don't loose our salvation every time we sin. However, we are known by our fruits. Just like we would be suspicious if a serial murderer or rapist claimed to have saving faith, we might also be uncertain about whether a self-murderer (suicider) has saving faith.

Then according to your logic, everyone's salvation is under question, since we all continue to sin. We should question the salvation of a person wh tells a lie, who over eats, who gossips. Any person's life could be looked at at a given isolated moment and faith not appear to be present (i.e. Abraham's little episode in Egypt with Sarah). If the person was trully saved before they sinned (what ever the sin is) the sin cannot separate them from God. If it can, then salvation is maintained by our righteousness.

Our salvation is a result of our faith. Once we are saved, we are taught to walk in the Spirit and if we do so, we will not fulfil the lusts of the flesh, and will not be under the law. When we stop walking in the Spirit, and we go back to sinning, we are in danger of losing our salvation. If we commit a wilful transgression, like suicide for instance, and have no opportunity to repent, the result will be a loss of salvation and eternity in hell. This has nothing to do with questioning other people's salvation. We need to be concerned with ourselves, but I do not believe a Christian can continue in sin and remain saved. If you want to call that a salvation where someone believes it is maintained by our righteousness, so be it, but I don't believe that either. God is the one that empowers us to live right. We cannot do it by ourselves. The key is walking in the Spirit, and trusting God to give us the grace to walk the Christian walk. As we drift away from God, then we have the law staring us in the face telling us right from wrong, but we cannot live by those laws in our own strength. We must get up trusting God in the morning, continue to do so throughout the day, and go to bed trusting in God to keep us. Pray without ceasing.

So salvation is by faith, but maintained by works?

Yes. James 2:14-26

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so, faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

That passage does not say that salvation is maintained by works. That is a theology called covenental nomism. It says that true faith will result in works. Works are the fruit of faith (See Ephesians 2:8-10 for the exact logical relationship.

Works do come as a result of faith. I said that in another post. At the same time, the passage makes it clear that if a person has faith, and no works, their faith is dead. It is of no value. If a person goes about in constant sin after getting saved, they are not bearing the fruit of the Spirit, but they are fulfilling the lust of the flesh, and the Bible says such a one shall not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. When a person commits suicide, they are not walking in the Spirit, but they have committed murder of self, and no murderer has eternal life. It is Jesus that cleanses us from all of our past sins, and reconciles us to the Father. It is also Jesus that gives us the grace and ability to walk the Christian walk, but he doesn't make us continue with him. While no man can pluck us out of his hand, he won't force us to remain in it. Killing ones self is walking out of Jesus' hand and into the flames of hell.

[BigBert]

So I am taking it you believe that every time a person sins, they lose their salvation until they repent

Nope, we don't loose our salvation every time we sin. However, we are known by our fruits. Just like we would be suspicious if a serial murderer or rapist claimed to have saving faith, we might also be uncertain about whether a self-murderer (suicider) has saving faith.

Then according to your logic, everyone's salvation is under question, since we all continue to sin. We should question the salvation of a person wh tells a lie, who over eats, who gossips. Any person's life could be looked at at a given isolated moment and faith not appear to be present (i.e. Abraham's little episode in Egypt with Sarah). If the person was trully saved before they sinned (what ever the sin is) the sin cannot separate them from God. If it can, then salvation is maintained by our righteousness.

Our salvation is a result of our faith. Once we are saved, we are taught to walk in the Spirit and if we do so, we will not fulfil the lusts of the flesh, and will not be under the law. When we stop walking in the Spirit, and we go back to sinning, we are in danger of losing our salvation. If we commit a wilful transgression, like suicide for instance, and have no opportunity to repent, the result will be a loss of salvation and eternity in hell. This has nothing to do with questioning other people's salvation. We need to be concerned with ourselves, but I do not believe a Christian can continue in sin and remain saved. If you want to call that a salvation where someone believes it is maintained by our righteousness, so be it, but I don't believe that either. God is the one that empowers us to live right. We cannot do it by ourselves. The key is walking in the Spirit, and trusting God to give us the grace to walk the Christian walk. As we drift away from God, then we have the law staring us in the face telling us right from wrong, but we cannot live by those laws in our own strength. We must get up trusting God in the morning, continue to do so throughout the day, and go to bed trusting in God to keep us. Pray without ceasing.

So salvation is by faith, but maintained by works?

Yes. James 2:14-26

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so, faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

That passage does not say that salvation is maintained by works. That is a theology called covenental nomism. It says that true faith will result in works. Works are the fruit of faith (See Ephesians 2:8-10 for the exact logical relationship.

Works do come as a result of faith. I said that in another post. At the same time, the passage makes it clear that if a person has faith, and no works, their faith is dead. It is of no value. If a person goes about in constant sin after getting saved, they are not bearing the fruit of the Spirit, but they are fulfilling the lust of the flesh, and the Bible says such a one shall not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. When a person commits suicide, they are not walking in the Spirit, but they have committed murder of self, and no murderer has eternal life. It is Jesus that cleanses us from all of our past sins, and reconciles us to the Father. It is also Jesus that gives us the grace and ability to walk the Christian walk, but he doesn't make us continue with him. While no man can pluck us out of his hand, he won't force us to remain in it. Killing ones self is walking out of Jesus' hand and into the flames of hell.

Butero, if we're speeding on the highway in a state of anger and get killed in a crash, are we headed for hell, then, being in an unrepentant state at the moment, Jesus' death for all of our sins notwithstanding?

[Guest Butero]

So I am taking it you believe that every time a person sins, they lose their salvation until they repent

Nope, we don't loose our salvation every time we sin. However, we are known by our fruits. Just like we would be suspicious if a serial murderer or rapist claimed to have saving faith, we might also be uncertain about whether a self-murderer (suicider) has saving faith.

Then according to your logic, everyone's salvation is under question, since we all continue to sin. We should question the salvation of a person wh tells a lie, who over eats, who gossips. Any person's life could be looked at at a given isolated moment and faith not appear to be present (i.e. Abraham's little episode in Egypt with Sarah). If the person was trully saved before they sinned (what ever the sin is) the sin cannot separate them from God. If it can, then salvation is maintained by our righteousness.

Our salvation is a result of our faith. Once we are saved, we are taught to walk in the Spirit and if we do so, we will not fulfil the lusts of the flesh, and will not be under the law. When we stop walking in the Spirit, and we go back to sinning, we are in danger of losing our salvation. If we commit a wilful transgression, like suicide for instance, and have no opportunity to repent, the result will be a loss of salvation and eternity in hell. This has nothing to do with questioning other people's salvation. We need to be concerned with ourselves, but I do not believe a Christian can continue in sin and remain saved. If you want to call that a salvation where someone believes it is maintained by our righteousness, so be it, but I don't believe that either. God is the one that empowers us to live right. We cannot do it by ourselves. The key is walking in the Spirit, and trusting God to give us the grace to walk the Christian walk. As we drift away from God, then we have the law staring us in the face telling us right from wrong, but we cannot live by those laws in our own strength. We must get up trusting God in the morning, continue to do so throughout the day, and go to bed trusting in God to keep us. Pray without ceasing.

So salvation is by faith, but maintained by works?

Yes. James 2:14-26

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so, faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

That passage does not say that salvation is maintained by works. That is a theology called covenental nomism. It says that true faith will result in works. Works are the fruit of faith (See Ephesians 2:8-10 for the exact logical relationship.

Works do come as a result of faith. I said that in another post. At the same time, the passage makes it clear that if a person has faith, and no works, their faith is dead. It is of no value. If a person goes about in constant sin after getting saved, they are not bearing the fruit of the Spirit, but they are fulfilling the lust of the flesh, and the Bible says such a one shall not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. When a person commits suicide, they are not walking in the Spirit, but they have committed murder of self, and no murderer has eternal life. It is Jesus that cleanses us from all of our past sins, and reconciles us to the Father. It is also Jesus that gives us the grace and ability to walk the Christian walk, but he doesn't make us continue with him. While no man can pluck us out of his hand, he won't force us to remain in it. Killing ones self is walking out of Jesus' hand and into the flames of hell.

Butero, if we're speeding on the highway in a state of anger and get killed in a crash, are we headed for hell, then, being in an unrepentant state at the moment, Jesus' death for all of our sins notwithstanding?

There is a difference between a wilful sin and something we are doing without thinking it through. Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." While I suppose it is possible that a person could pre-meditate that they are going to wilfully speed while in a state of anger, it is not likely. Most of the time, those things occur without giving them any thought, and a transgression that occurs without pre-meditation won't cause a person to lose their salvation. Most of the time, God will convict that Christian later on, and then they need to repent.