Science in the Bible.

[Sir Gareth]

I wanted to ask how secular scientists and science buffs might answer how the bible-especially the OT (written so long ago) had such reliable scientific knowlege in it?

-Isiah 40:22 tells us the World was round when most believed it to be flat. Not until the greeks did 'modern' scientists agree that the Earth was round, but Isiah knew it much earlier than that.

-Job 26:7 tells us that the Earth was hung upon nothing, and we know today that it does infact hang on nothing.

-Job 22:12 tells us that the universe is vast and huge, as we now know it to be.

-Job 36:27-28 describes evaporation in great detail.

-Dueteronomy 12:23 tells us that 'life is in the blood' which, through DNA evidence we find is true, that all the information and life of a person can be found in a single drop of blood.

If not for the bible being given by God to man how would primitive cultures have so much advanced scientific knowlege?

this does not even touch the issues of historical an prophetic evidence that prove the Bible's truth.

[Sir Gareth]

if thats the best defense secular science can muster they are not built on reason as much as they lead us to believe.

[georgedrw81]

if thats the best defense secular science can muster they are not built on reason as much as they lead us to believe.

Right

[Fez]

Isa 40:21 Do you not know? Do you not hear? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?

Isa 40:22 It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;

Sounds round to me

[Fez]

if thats the best defense secular science can muster they are not built on reason as much as they lead us to believe.

That's not "secular science", that's just the word that's used in the passage. A circle is not a sphere. The earth as a "circle" with the heavens spread out over it like a tent looks like this according to a literal interpretation of the text.

And things taken in Faith are not always literal

[MorningGlory]

-Isiah 40:22 tells us the World was round when most believed it to be flat. Not until the greeks did 'modern' scientists agree that the Earth was round, but Isiah knew it much earlier than that.

This passage refers to the world as a circle, not a sphere.

Only in your thinking which is excluding what the Hebrew word for circle means. The sense of the word is a geometric circle.

That's an interesting point; we often forget that the writers of the Bible didn't speak English......

[MorningGlory]

if thats the best defense secular science can muster they are not built on reason as much as they lead us to believe.

That's not "secular science", that's just the word that's used in the passage. A circle is not a sphere. The earth as a "circle" with the heavens spread out over it like a tent looks like this according to a literal interpretation of the text.

And things taken in Faith are not always literal

No argument there, but the point of the passage is clearly to describe God's power not to literally offer a scientifically accurate picture of planet earth.

When the Bible describes the earth as 'hung on nothing' (written before 'science' knew this) there is no way to argue the accuracy of the statement..... coming from those who should not have known it to be true.

[Fez]

I don't usually get involved in these roundabout arguments, but this is interesting:-

Gen 1:7 And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so.

Gen 1:8 And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

H8064

שׁמה שׁמים

shâmayim shâmeh

shaw-mah'-yim, shaw-meh'

The second form being dual of an unused singular; from an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve): - air, X astrologer, heaven (-s).

The earth is round, God created it that way, it has always been round, and unless He decides to make it look like a pizza if He so wishes, get over it and move on. Please?

[MorningGlory]

I don't usually get involved in these roundabout arguments, but this is interesting:-

Gen 1:7 And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so.

Gen 1:8 And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

H8064

שׁמה שׁמים

shâmayim shâmeh

shaw-mah'-yim, shaw-meh'

The second form being dual of an unused singular; from an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve): - air, X astrologer, heaven (-s).

The earth is round, God created it that way, it has always been round, and unless He decides to make it look like a pizza if He so wishes, get over it and move on. Please?

Agreed; this argument could go on until the end of time......

[MorningGlory]

When the Bible describes the earth as 'hung on nothing' (written before 'science' knew this) there is no way to argue the accuracy of the statement..... coming from those who should not have known it to be true.

Weeeeelllll. . .kind of. It's been a little while since I've read Job but I remember Job saying that the earth was "hung upon nothing" and God replies "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?"

Correct...apparently Job thought he was way wiser than he really was. Many today have the same problem. See below......

Job 38

The LORD Speaks

¹ Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said: ² "Who is this that darkens my counsel

with words without knowledge?

³ Brace yourself like a man;

I will question you,

and you shall answer me.

⁴ "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?

Tell me, if you understand.

⁵ Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!

Who stretched a measuring line across it?

⁶ On what were its footings set,

or who laid its cornerstone-

⁷ while the morning stars sang together

and all the angels ^[a] shouted for joy?

⁸ "Who shut up the sea behind doors

when it burst forth from the womb,

⁹ when I made the clouds its garment

and wrapped it in thick darkness,

¹⁰ when I fixed limits for it

and set its doors and bars in place,

¹¹ when I said, 'This far you may come and no farther;

here is where your proud waves halt'?

¹² "Have you ever given orders to the morning,

or shown the dawn its place,

¹³ that it might take the earth by the edges

and shake the wicked out of it?

¹⁴ The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;

its features stand out like those of a garment.

¹⁵ The wicked are denied their light,

and their upraised arm is broken.

¹⁶ "Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea

or walked in the recesses of the deep?

¹⁷ Have the gates of death been shown to you?

Have you seen the gates of the shadow of death ^[b] ?

¹⁸ Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth?

Tell me, if you know all this.

¹⁹ "What is the way to the abode of light?

And where does darkness reside?

²⁰ Can you take them to their places?

Do you know the paths to their dwellings?

²¹ Surely you know, for you were already born!

You have lived so many years!

²² "Have you entered the storehouses of the snow

or seen the storehouses of the hail,

²³ which I reserve for times of trouble,

for days of war and battle?

²⁴ What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed,

or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth?

²⁵ Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain,

and a path for the thunderstorm,

²⁶ to water a land where no man lives,

a desert with no one in it,

²⁷ to satisfy a desolate wasteland

and make it sprout with grass?

²⁸ Does the rain have a father?

Who fathers the drops of dew?

²⁹ From whose womb comes the ice?

Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens

³⁰ when the waters become hard as stone,

when the surface of the deep is frozen?

³¹ "Can you bind the beautiful ^[c] Pleiades?

Can you loose the cords of Orion?

³² Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons ^[d]

or lead out the Bear ^[e] with its cubs?

³³ Do you know the laws of the heavens?

Can you set up God's ^[f] dominion over the earth?

³⁴ "Can you raise your voice to the clouds

and cover yourself with a flood of water?

³⁵ Do you send the lightning bolts on their way?

Do they report to you, 'Here we are'?

³⁶ Who endowed the heart ^[g] with wisdom

or gave understanding to the mind ^[h] ?

³⁷ Who has the wisdom to count the clouds?

Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens

³⁸ when the dust becomes hard

and the clods of earth stick together?

³⁹ "Do you hunt the prey for the lioness

and satisfy the hunger of the lions

⁴⁰ when they crouch in their dens

or lie in wait in a thicket?

⁴¹ Who provides food for the raven

when its young cry out to God

and wander about for lack of food?