Ohio gov. wants Rifqa Bary back with her family

[Axxman]

Her family is muslim. She has become a Christian. According to the koran her family is required to kill her. Actually they are required to kill all of us infidels (non-muslims, but Jews and Christians in particular). This is a no-brainer. If this girl is not protected her life is in danger.

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Nathele

False! Thats like saying Christian parents are required to stone their rebeliious children because its in the bible. There are people of ALL belief systems who are extremists.

[nikki1]

Blessings, Nebula:

I also saw the entire interview and the girl was genuinely frightened for her life, justifiably so. She is not a child and she has been around islam long enough to know what happens to people from islamic families when they convert to Christianity.

Even when son of West Bank Hamas leader converted to Christianity awhile back, he fled Ramallah and obtained political asylum in California, where he now resides because he was fearful of his life. Even now in America he is not safe, saying in an interview:

"I know that I'm endangering my life and am even liable to lose my father, but I hope that he'll understand this and that God will give him and my family patience and willingness to open their eyes to Jesus and to Christianity. Maybe one day I'll be able to return to Palestine and to Ramallah with Jesus, in the Kingdom of God." Full interview here.

And then there is this gruesome honor killing - beheading of a muslim woman by her husband because she was going to divorce him because of persistent abuse in Orchard Park, NY.

Nikki

Edited September 16, 2009 by nikki1

[Scarletprayers]

I've seen the entire interview Rifqa gave. I posted the link in a previous thread.

This is what I saw:

1. She was genuinely scared.

I agree...she was scared. She sincerely believes what she was told about her parents. She would not be the first minor to fall for something she read on the internet.

2. When mentioning her reasons for believing her life was in danger she mentioned 2 things:

First - the principle of honor-killing and the fact that it does happen (she spoke as if she had personal knowledge/connection with the practice)

Second - her parents' threats and anger

To me, she spoke as if she had read a book on the practice...a twisted book. Someone told her about the killings and someone convinced her that her parents would kill her for being christian.

Your second point is a very real concern. All parents who practice corporal punishment should worry about it. Most children are not able to process that being hit by their parent is an act of love...they see it as an act of aggression and violence. There is NO evidence that this juvenile is in ANY danger from her parents.

3. She ran away after a night of prayer. It was she who sought out the pastors for refuge. They were actually surprised by her showing up in Florida seeking their help.

She ran away after a night of prayer...with the predators...lol. Does that count? Have you ever watched "To Catch a Predator?" The #1 excuse is "She contacted me first." I am stunned no charges have been filed on that pastor yet. They said they were surprised...they have to say that. You don't tell a teen who is trying to run away from home that there is a bus ticket waiting for you...and then act surprised when the teen uses the bus ticket. There is soooo much butt-covering on the pastors side of the story it isn't even funny.

It distresses me to read words of condemnation against her.

LET ME BE REAL CLEAR HERE...I am not condemning Rifqa. She is the victim of some pretty sick and twisted people she met on the internet who turned her against her parents and lured her from her home.

LET ME BE REAL CLEAR HERE...........I'm SURE you'll feel SO BAD for her if the courts return her and shes killed.

[nebula]

She would not be the first minor to fall for something she read on the internet.

Why do you say she got her information from the internet . . . and not the mosque her family attends? Or perhaps know of people who have been honor-killed?

To me, she spoke as if she had read a book on the practice...a twisted book. Someone told her about the killings and someone convinced her that her parents would kill her for being christian.

That's weird. My impression is that she had first-hand knowledge of the matter.

Your second point is a very real concern. All parents who practice corporal punishment should worry about it. Most children are not able to process that being hit by their parent is an act of love...they see it as an act of aggression and violence. There is NO evidence that this juvenile is in ANY danger from her parents.

Except that she claims her father said, "I will kill you."

So either she has a bad memory or was lying.

And wether or not it is corporal punishment depends on how she was hit, don't you think?

She ran away after a night of prayer...with the predators...lol.

The testimony I heard - she went to her church in Ohio to pray. One of her friends there gave her money for a bus ticket. She never contacted the pastors in Florida until after she was in Florida.

I am stunned no charges have been filed on that pastor yet. They said they were surprised...they have to say that.

In one of the videos I saw (and posted), the wife said she was in the shower when the phone rang, and she was surprised.

LET ME BE REAL CLEAR HERE...I am not condemning Rifqa. She is the victim of some pretty sick and twisted people she met on the internet who turned her against her parents and lured her from her home.

Actually, I was thinking of someone else's words. Not yours.

I'm just not convinced she was manipulated. I've been paying attention to Chrisitan persecution in Islamic countires for years, and the number one danger to a Christian are members of their own family. So I do not find it hard to believe the reality of the threat.

[Axxman]

I also saw the entire interview and the girl was genuinely frightened for her life, justifiably so. She is not a child and she has been around islam long enough to know what happens to people from islamic families when they convert to Christianity.

Even when son of West Bank Hamas leader converted to Christianity awhile back, he fled Ramallah and obtained political asylum in California, where he now resides because he was fearful of his life. Even now in America he is not safe, saying in an interview:

"I know that I'm endangering my life and am even liable to lose my father, but I hope that he'll understand this and that God will give him and my family patience and willingness to open their eyes to Jesus and to Christianity. Maybe one day I'll be able to return to Palestine and to Ramallah with Jesus, in the Kingdom of God." Full interview here.

Seriously? You can't compare the story of the son of a leader in a terrorist organization...with the plight of a high-school cheerleader...lol.

And then there is this gruesome honor killing - beheading of a muslim woman by her husband because she was going to divorce him because of persistent abuse in Orchard Park, NY.

And again...what does this have to do with anything. It is a domestic violence issue that had NOTHING to do with the wife becoming a Christian. He was an abusive husband...there is NO evidence that Rifqa's father abused her.

[nebula]

By the way everyone . . .

Can we work out our differences without beating each other up?

[Scarletprayers]

By the way everyone . . .

Can we work out our differences without beating each other up?

I'll just stop posting Neb, because no I can't!

[nikki1]

I also saw the entire interview and the girl was genuinely frightened for her life, justifiably so. She is not a child and she has been around islam long enough to know what happens to people from islamic families when they convert to Christianity.

Even when son of West Bank Hamas leader converted to Christianity awhile back, he fled Ramallah and obtained political asylum in California, where he now resides because he was fearful of his life. Even now in America he is not safe, saying in an interview:

"I know that I'm endangering my life and am even liable to lose my father, but I hope that he'll understand this and that God will give him and my family patience and willingness to open their eyes to Jesus and to Christianity. Maybe one day I'll be able to return to Palestine and to Ramallah with Jesus, in the Kingdom of God." Full interview here.

Seriously? You can't compare the story of the son of a leader in a terrorist organization...with the plight of a high-school cheerleader...lol.

And then there is this gruesome honor killing - beheading of a muslim woman by her husband because she was going to divorce him because of persistent abuse in Orchard Park, NY.

And again...what does this have to do with anything. It is a domestic violence issue that had NOTHING to do with the wife becoming a Christian. He was an abusive husband...there is NO evidence that Rifqa's father abused her.

Blessings, Axxman:

Seriously, you're joking when I don't see anything funny to make light of.

I am very serious Axxman...

I don't see anything to laugh about,

You need to see islam for what it is.

Obviously, you missed the point, again number one, the above Hamas leader son, now known as Joseph clearly shows his life is in danger because he converted from islam to Christianity which is very common in islam, and anyone who knows anything about islam knows this fact.

One doesn't have to be a female to fear for their life after converting from islam to Christianity. Do you ever read anything before you comment?

Number 2... you missed it again... or are in denial...

and clearly shows that honor killing takes place even in the United States of America even in so called "prominent" moderate islamic homes when a wife wants to leave her husband because of persistant abuse.

Women are of little value in the islamic ideology according to the Quran and leaving a muslim husband dishonors him. "Men take authority over women. As for those who are disobedient, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them." Surah 4:34

This 17 year old former islamic young adult female knows what she is talking about even if you don't.

Nikki

[Axxman]

She would not be the first minor to fall for something she read on the internet.

Why do you say she got her information from the internet . . . and not the mosque her family attends? Or perhaps know of people who have been honor-killed?

Well...then you'd have to believe that the mosque is on the extremist side..right? The reality is, the family's mosque (Noor Islamic Cultural Center) is a bastion of moderation. They are tied to several Protestant churches (Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, etc) , Catholic churches, Episcopalian churches, Temples and even the Unitarians in an organization called B.R.E.A.D. The Noor mosque also frequently does inter-faith meetings...including one recently on Homeland Security.

I would suggest you check out this bastion of terror here. There is also a youtube video (search NICC) where you can learn about their community...they look especially dangerous flipping hamburgers and face painting...lol. They made a contest out of Ramadan...lol. They don't have any appearance of extremism.

Except that she claims her father said, "I will kill you."

So either she has a bad memory or was lying.

And wether or not it is corporal punishment depends on how she was hit, don't you think?

I think her father was upset...just as I would be if I caught my daughter being fished by muslims on the internet and she proclaimed her love of Islam. Who knows what was said...or how it was received. The father says he wouldn't kill his daughter...the brainwashed girl is scared of her father.

Any hitting is corporal punishment. Although, I will acknowledge that some hitting is more dangerous than others. Florida child services has extensively interviewed the girl and found no evidence of abuse. Child services will routinely reach as far as they can to invent abuse out of nothing, so if they couldn't find anything that says something.

The testimony I heard - she went to her church in Ohio to pray. One of her friends there gave her money for a bus ticket. She never contacted the pastors in Florida until after she was in Florida.

She may have been praying. She was clearly confused, upset, scared. She was convinced that her father had to kill her...she nust have been a basket-case. The pastors in Florida are the connection with the ticket, although they were smart enough to have someone else purchase it. She called the pastor in Florida the night she ran away...and was missing for two weeks after that. How surprised could they be? They talked to the girl online for a year. They talked to her on the phone. They talked to her the night she ran away. They told her there was a bus ticket waiting. Then act surprised when she shows up looking for them?? Makes no sense to me. I say claiming surprise is the only thing keeping them out of jail right now so they are clinging to that line.

I'm just not convinced she was manipulated. I've been paying attention to Chrisitan persecution in Islamic countires for years, and the number one danger to a Christian are members of their own family. So I do not find it hard to believe the reality of the threat.

We are not an Islamic country. You can't compare Muslims in Iran to muslims in America...it is a totally different culture. You can't even compare a random act of muslim violence in America and claim all muslims are violent. It isn't fair when they do it to Christians (i.e. the George Tiller murder) and it isn't right to do it to any other religious group.

This girl was a KNOWN Christian for 3 years...it was only in the last year, when her murderous father bought her a laptop, that the real issues began. We may never know what actually happened...but in America we don't assume people are guilty because of their skin color, or their religious affiliation. There is simply no evidence that this girl is in danger from her family and the judge is right to try and mend that relationship by bringing her back to Ohio where she is not under the influence of the people that hid her from law enforcement (not just her family) for two weeks.

[Axxman]

You need to see islam for what it is.

Obviously, you missed the point, again number one, the above Hamas leader son, now known as Joseph clearly shows his life is in danger because he converted from islam to Christianity which is very common in islam, and anyone who knows anything about islam knows this fact.

One doesn't have to be a female to fear for their life after converting from islam to Christianity. Do you ever read anything before you comment?

I didn't say one has to be a female...where did you get that? The point is...the son of a terrorist leader should be in fear of his life because it is common in Islamic countries for converts to be killed by extremists. In Joseph's case his father is a leader of a group that commits terrorism. That in NO WAY compares to Rifqa's father who buys her laptops and clothing from the GAP...and signs the permission slip for his daughter to dress like a cheerleader in a public school.

The idea that you find the two stories remotely comparable is funny to me.

Number 2... you missed it again... or are in denial...

and clearly shows that honor killing takes place even in the United States of America even in so called "prominent" moderate islamic homes when a wife wants to leave her husband because of persistant abuse.

Women are of little value in the islamic ideology according to the Quran and leaving a muslim husband dishonors him. "Men take authority over women. As for those who are disobedient, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them." Surah 4:34

This 17 year old former islamic young adult female knows what she is talking about even if you don't.

Are we really going to play the "Whose bible is more violent game?" Yes, there are some violent passages in the quran...yes, there are violent passages in the Holy bible. Only the most extreme followers (like Josephs dad) use those passages to commit violence. Unless you read Proverbs...you don't have to be extreme to beat your kids...thats just good 'ol bible teachin' there...lol.

The fact that an abusive husband killed his wife for trying to divorce him is NOT exclusive to muslims...and does NOTHING to prove that Rifqa's father wants her dead. Not all muslims are violent fundamentalists who want to kill people.