What do you think fo these passages?

[wordsower]

RCruise,

It has become very clear to me that scripture has many little messages sort of hidden in it.  If you look at Joshua 3, you simply read about the Israelites crossing the Jordan, but if you take a closer look you see that all of the other stuff in there has definate significance to the cross. Joshua was the High Priest that replaces Moses and is comissioned by God.  Joshua's name in Hebrew is Jeshua, which is the same name of Jesus.  Jeshua la Messiah, forgive my Hebrew spelling.  Joshua was a direct parralel to Jesus.

Coincidently, NOT:  This is the same spot where Jesus was baptized (see Mark 1:9, John 1:28 Luke 3:3)  Notice that in Joshua 3:16 when the waters were parted v16 "that the waters which came down from upstream stood still, and rose in a heap very far away at Adam, the city that is beside Zaretan.  So the waters that went down into the sea of the Arabah, the Salt Sea, failed, and were cut off; and the people crossed over opposite Jericho"  This is symbolic to Christ's first coming in that through Him the sins from Adam to present were cast into the dead sea, never to be remembered.  

That is just one instance.  The stories of the OT aren't just cute little lessons in history, they have significant, prophetic value.  I never saw any of this for years and years but when I really prayed for knowledge and wisdom, things just started connecting.  

The parables Jesus said, were for those of the Spirit to understand and the carnal could not discern them so we have to look at them in the Spirit and realize the spiritual lesson Jesus is teaching.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings All,

I believe that if everyone would take a closer look at what the scripture reveals as "tribulation" and "God's wrath", then it may help to understand where tribulation ceases and God's wrath begins.

Not only does God "tell" us in the Bible about everything you can imagine, but He also gives us examples. Christ being the epitome of the example given in the scriptures. I hope you can see the value of not only reading the scriptures and saying "Oh, this means such and such", but also comparing scripture with other "like" scriptures, and seeing the "pictures" developed on the screen of your mind of just what is being said.

We are given many instances of "tribulation" in both Covenants. They range from minor annoyances to severe trials AND even may result in death.

On the other hand here are some instances of "God's Wrath":

When the Hebrews crossed over the Red Sea after leaving Egypt, the Egyptian army soon followed, but were immediately drowned.

Then we have the instance of Korah's rebellion. The earth opened up and they were swallowed up alive, the whole lot of them.

Then of course we have the flood.

I believe it was God's wrath upon Christ that paid for our sins.

In the NT, we see Ananias and Sapphira. Within moments after each confronted Peter, they were struck dead by God.

Do you see the difference here between tribulation & wrath? Tribulation usually is a warning by God upon an unrepentant people. It is oft-times long in duration and does not always result in death, in fact seldom does. But look what happens in the last days:

For 3 1/2 years the saints of God are made war with by the Beast. Ultimately all but a few (a remnant) die. Then take a look at God's WRATH:

Revelation 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

Revelation 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

Revelation 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

These instances are NOT "tribulation", but are "God's WRATH" upon an evil world after they have made war with the saints and overcame them.

Please give these definitions and examples some thought. Perhaps you may be able to add more insight.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[wordsower]

Dad,

I think everyone understands the difference between God's wrath and the tribulation.  The point is that Rev 3:10 says I will keep you from the hour of temptation that will come upon the whole earth.  The temptation is to accept the Mark, has nothing to do with God's wrath yet.    The wrath doesn't start until chapter 15.

What is your interpretation of Rev. 3:10?

[RCruise]

Wordsower:

But, how is it that these "hidden meanings/messages" take precedence over what is directly and literally given?

Also, on Rev. 3:10, Christ made that promise to the Philadelphia.  Why only to them and not any of the other Churches?  If it was the "Rapture" He was speaking of, He most assuredly would have spoken it to all the others (possibly with exception of the Laodoceans).  To "keep" is not to "rapture" or "remove" but, to maintain supernaturally in place.

God Bless.

[wordsower]

But, how is it that these "hidden meanings/messages" take precedence over what is directly and literally given?

Matt. 13:34 ..."I will open My mouth in parables;

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Wordsower,

One of the best "types" I know of revealing the progression of the last days scenario is when Moses led the Hebrews out of Egypt. Initially Pharoah would not let them go and then began a series of plagues (these are like the tribulations that are to come upon the world). Then when they were finally released and was able to cross over the Red Sea (Or Sea of Reeds). This is likened to the rapture. The Egyptian Army was in hot pursuit until, of course the waters overcame them and they were destroyed. This is comparable to God's Wrath.

Now consider that while IN Egypt, and the deadliest of the plagues hit, the Hebrews were to put blood above their doors and stay inside their homes. This was God's supernatural protection of them so that the death angel would pass over and not touch them. In the end times, the enemy will pursue and overtake and overcome most of the Christians of the world, but notice this:

Revelation 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

See how these prophets torment the whole earth? I can infer from this that all the plagues listed earlier in Revelation are upon the unrighteous and the righteous are supernaturally protected, but because of this they are pursued and killed.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[wordsower]

Since you mentioned it Remember that Moses was a friend to God while the Israelites were His chosen people, they were continuously a rebellious, disobedient, stiff-necked, complainers.......they didn't exactly hold the title "friend of God"

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Wordsower,

Sorry, the picture of the Hebrews in Egypt (us in the world) and their flight from Egypt across the Red Sea is the picture of the end times. The Hebrews desert trek and Moses meeting the Lord on the mountain does not compute.

Also, the fact that the whole world rejoices at the death of the 2 witnesses shows that the world hates them, why aren't there Christians supporting them?

You and many others are going to be surprised to learn that the "two witnesses" are representative of two GROUPS, namely the Jews and Gentiles that are scattered among the peoples of the world.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[wordsower]

I believe they represent the law and the prophets, which is all for Israel.  See the transfiguration for example.  When Moses and Elijah disappeared only Jesus stood there, representing that the law and the prophets were completed in Him.  The 2 witnesses are sent to Israel and lie dead in the streets where Jesus was crucified, if they were for the Christians, why wouldn't He send one of them to America or somewhere else in the world?  They are going to warn the Jews!  The fullness of the Gentiles has already been complete, see Romans 11.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Wordsower,

The fullness of the Gentiles has already been complete, see Romans 11.

Let's see what Romans 11 says:

Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? (Gentiles are continuing to be rich, that is they are the ones receiving the bulk of the message of the Gospel. When the message begins to gain in the Jewish community and decline in the Gentile community, then you know the last days are upon us.)

Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? (THIS IS IN REFERENCE TO THE RESURRECTION)

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (To date there is less that 200,000 Jews out of about 6 million that have received Christ. A very miniscule amount.)

Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

Romans 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. (It will be Christians living in the last days that will be merciful to the Jews and deliver to them the Gospel.)

Blessings,

Dad Ernie