just a question

[Guest HIS girl]

~andy~'

As far as Judas, God knew what free will decisions Judas would make, and He used those free will decisions as part of His beautiful plan to nail Jesus to the cross. You and I both have free will, God knows in advance what we will do with our free will, and He uses this in a sovereign way to bring about His will.

So it doesn't matter which "freewill decision" Judas made, it would have still eventually led him to the betrayal of Jesus and ultimately to hell (if in fact he didn't repent before his suicide)?

[~candice~]

~andy~'

As far as Judas, God knew what free will decisions Judas would make, and He used those free will decisions as part of His beautiful plan to nail Jesus to the cross. You and I both have free will, God knows in advance what we will do with our free will, and He uses this in a sovereign way to bring about His will.

So it doesn't matter which "freewill decision" Judas made, it would have still eventually led him to the betrayal of Jesus and ultimately to hell (if in fact he didn't repent before his suicide)?

Judas freely chose to betray Jesus. From Judas point of view, he was tempted to betray Christ, and chose to do so. From God's point of view, He knew that Judas would betray Christ from before the beginning of time, and used this information to bring about His will.

It's not like God had to have scenarios ready for all the different choices Judas could have made, God knows THE choice eventually Judas made (afterall, there is only one reality, not many).

[Guest HIS girl]

What if Judas chose not to betray Jesus? Or does predestination see Judas Iscariot as the only candidate?

I think when we talk about freewill, it is 100% freewill -

I believe that disobedience is sin which was "activated" by satan when Eve and Adam disobeyed and ate of the fruit. Satan is the father of lies, 1st murderer as Jesus said - what Jesus says is the absolute truth.

Jesus says in John 3 v 16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only and unique Son, so that everyone who trusts in him may have eternal life, instead of being utterly destroyed." CJB What Jesus said is open to everyone.

God doesn't want one single person to perish - He never did. The seperation of man and God was the consequence of disobedience - hence sin.

We see before Creation of the world that Lucifer wanted to be God and thus was disobedient to God and in rebellion to Him - the manifestation of this rebelliousness is sin -

We then see the same old ploy happening again via satan to Eve when he challenges her about what God said concerning the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, saying they would NOT die if they ate the fruit and then tempting Eve with his old trick of telling her "you will be like God". Thus Eve was beguiled and the fruit looked good to eat and she ate and Adam in complete disobedience and in full knowledge of the command not to eat, ate also - the wheels were then set in motion.

There were two outcomes available to their freewill - one was to live in perfect harmony with God, the other was sin via satan - there is no other way sin entered the world but via satan through disobedience - the only option for redemption and reconcilliation of mankind was Jesus willingly giving up His life and position in Heaven in order to bring man back into relationship with God. The Holy Spirit draws one to God.

This hope is available to all who call on His name... That is the hope we have in Christ that He hears us when we call out to Him and once in the bosom of Jesus, He never lets us go.

In my personal walk with the Lord - He has shown me mercy, He has shown me compassion and He has shown me that He is not exclusive with His love.

The Gospel is available to all who will hear it and accept His truth.

I do not know a God of exclusion. I do not know a God who would willingly create people in the full knowledge of knowing they have NO hope and are destined for hell. The God I know is a loving merciful God and who knows no bounds to draw someone to Him. I have met the God of Love - those who reject Him do so out of their own freewill, not because they are predetermined to do so.

God is looking for those to worship in Spirit and in Truth.

What I do with the Bible is see what Jesus says about the OT and Scripture in general and He says everyone who trusts in Him will have eternal life. So I go with that - hope for all.

[Openly Curious]

Why didn't God just kill satan from the get go so he wouldn't have any power over us?

I am not trying to be funny or offensive by what I'm going to say, as it is a real answer that I'm trying to get across.

God did not kill Satan from the start so the devil would not have power over us.

It was because that God had a "Plan" from the beginning (and I'm glad to be in that plan. ) and He is going to finish that plan until it's complete.

Ephesians 1:4--"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

1 Peter 1:2--"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through santification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (that's a great promise that grace and peace be multiplied I sure can use grace and peace to be multiplied in my life.)

oc

[princess2000]

Why didn't God just kill satan from the get go so he wouldn't have any power over us?

I am not trying to be funny or offensive by what I'm going to say, as it is a real answer that I'm trying to get across.

God did not kill Satan from the start so the devil would not have power over us.

It was because that God had a "Plan" from the beginning (and I'm glad to be in that plan. ) and He is going to finish that plan until it's complete.

Ephesians 1:4--"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

1 Peter 1:2--"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through santification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (that's a great promise that grace and peace be multiplied I sure can use grace and peace to be multiplied in my life.)

oc

Actually, I've always been taught that God didn't kill Satan from the get go because, like he loves us, he loves Satan, Lucifer was among his favorite angels, then Lucifer, because of freewill, turned on God because he didn't want to be a servant to us humans.

Peace out

~Beka

[~candice~]

Actually, I've always been taught that God didn't kill Satan from the get go because, like he loves us, he loves Satan, Lucifer was among his favorite angels, then Lucifer, because of freewill, turned on God because he didn't want to be a servant to us humans.

Peace out

~Beka

Wow, I've never heard that before. Can you back it up with scripture?

[Massorite]

~andy~'

As far as Judas, God knew what free will decisions Judas would make, and He used those free will decisions as part of His beautiful plan to nail Jesus to the cross. You and I both have free will, God knows in advance what we will do with our free will, and He uses this in a sovereign way to bring about His will.

So it doesn't matter which "freewill decision" Judas made, it would have still eventually led him to the betrayal of Jesus and ultimately to hell (if in fact he didn't repent before his suicide)?

Judas freely chose to betray Jesus. From Judas point of view, he was tempted to betray Christ, and chose to do so. From God's point of view, He knew that Judas would betray Christ from before the beginning of time, and used this information to bring about His will.

It's not like God had to have scenarios ready for all the different choices Judas could have made, God knows THE choice eventually Judas made (afterall, there is only one reality, not many).

Actually there is no proof at all that Judas acted of his own free will because the bible tells us that he was possessed by satan himself. However he could not have been possessed but for the fact that he already had the right mind set to be possessed.

Luke 22:3 "Then entered satan INTO Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve" Verse 4 "And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray Him unto them in the absence of the multitude".

I would say that since Judas didn't even go and conspire with the priests and captains until after satan interred into (IE possessed him) him that Judas did not at all act according to his will but rather he acted according to the will of satan just as scripture tells us. The first thing he did after he was possessed was to do the bidding of satan.

[Massorite]

Actually, I've always been taught that God didn't kill Satan from the get go because, like he loves us, he loves Satan, Lucifer was among his favorite angels, then Lucifer, because of freewill, turned on God because he didn't want to be a servant to us humans.

Peace out

~Beka

Wow, I've never heard that before. Can you back it up with scripture?

Read Ezekiel chapter 28. The words "prince of Tyrus" actually are talking about the "prince of Pride" because the prince of Tyrus was never in the garden of Eden when it was the garden of God. The first half of the chapter is all about satan.

In the bible the word "hate" for the most part when talking about God hating it means "to love less". God loves all of His creations fallen or not.

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

Well, He did according to Gen 1:26 (NASB)--Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

Jesus is a part of the "US" in the scripture above. The "US" is the Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Amen!

[princess2000]

Actually, I've always been taught that God didn't kill Satan from the get go because, like he loves us, he loves Satan, Lucifer was among his favorite angels, then Lucifer, because of freewill, turned on God because he didn't want to be a servant to us humans.

Peace out

~Beka

Wow, I've never heard that before. Can you back it up with scripture?

Read Ezekiel chapter 28. The words "prince of Tyrus" actually are talking about the "prince of Pride" because the prince of Tyrus was never in the garden of Eden when it was the garden of God. The first half of the chapter is all about satan.

In the bible the word "hate" for the most part when talking about God hating it means "to love less". God loves all of His creations fallen or not.

Thanks Massorite, I just knew what I was taught, not where it was in the bible.

Peace out

~Beka