can salvation be lost?

[Smalcald]

Where we differ is that, for example, a homosexual accepts and understands the gospel. He can present it to us back intelligently

and clearly. He accepts that "gift" from God. however, your stance is that he is not really saved if he continues to live in his lifestyle. Or not really saved

since he didn't change nor has a desire to change.

Wheres, I would say he is saved.

I would add that in no way do I find it acceptable that one continues to live in sin.

The funny thing is I am almost the opposite.

I don't have any major personal problems with gay people or what they do sexually, it simply does not bother me, nor do people who have sex outside of marriage bother me, etc. so I don't honestly find it unacceptable one way or the other.

However I think scripture is very clear about their fate without true repentance and change (those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven). What fun is it being a Christian if you still lead life as the world leads it? Striving for holiness brings a peace and joy that living in unrepented sin cannot match. I think we do people a disservice to not tell them about the joy of living a clean life, the joy of not being a fornicator or a drunk or a greed head or a violent person.

[HAZARD]

Could I relinquish my eternal salvation Christ would cease to be the author of my salvation, and would render His promise of salvation null, and His sacrifice void. So then, the Bible, our so-called "manual" is of no help to us, as it does not specifically deal with the subject of "lost salvation." How could such an important matter be so delinquently overlooked by the author, God?

Could you relinquish your salvation? yes you can. Easily. Deliberately commit any sin and blatently refuse to repent of it. Then you would render Christs promise of salvation null, and His sacrifice void.

Its common sense nothing more.

Haz.

[Rhonda Lou]

If you claim to be saved but have no desire to serve God, and are comfortable continuing to live in sin. In other words if you can sin and enjoy it impenitently, it would be evidence that your profession of faith is not genuine. Salvation works from the inside out. We are changed inwardly first.

That is not definition of "Eternal Security." Rather, it is the kind of salvation upon which Eternal Security is predicated.

I understand what you are saying now.

I think we both can agree that we cannot lose salvation.

Where we differ is that, for example, a homosexual accepts and understands the gospel. He can present it to us back intelligently

and clearly. He accepts that "gift" from God. however, your stance is that he is not really saved if he continues to live in his lifestyle. Or not really saved

since he didn't change nor has a desire to change.

Wheres, I would say he is saved.

I would add that in no way do I find it acceptable that one continues to live in sin.

No need to dispute it but I was more trying to understand where we both are coming from.

You mention that "Where we differ is that, for example, a homosexual accepts and understands the gospel. He can present it to us back intelligently

and clearly. He accepts that "gift" from God". I think the problem with this theory is that understanding and explaining the gospel intelligently do not save. James 2:19 says, "You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe -- and tremble!" I can know something intellectually, and even accept it as fact, but not be moved by it. Salvation is this: to know I'm a sinner, that I can't stop myself from sinning, that I need to change that, and can't, that Jesus loved me enough to die for me, so that I COULD change that, if I believe that He paid the penalty for my sins, and rose again to win the victory over death and sin. If I believe that He has won this victory for me, I sorsake my sin and accept His deliverance. Therefore, having been freed from sin, I no longer live in it. His free gift is life through His Holy Spirit, who is in me, transforming me from glory to glory. Now, granted, it is God who draws, calls, justifies and saves me, but the Bible still requires me to receive that salvation, and receive His Spirit into my life FOR THE PURPOSE of conforming me to the image of His Son (Romans 8:29), transforming me from glory to glory (2 Corinthians 3:18), doing good works prepared beforehand that I should walk in them (Ephesians 2:10) and glorifying God in what I do (Matthew 5:16; 1 Corinthians 10:31). It is not for the purpose of continuing in sin, and still being able to go to heaven once I die. It is like this: I can say that when I sit on a chair, it will hold me, but until I actually SIT in the chair, then it is just words. God calls us to biblical faith: acting on that faith, living it. Do you believe God saved you from sin? Then don't sin. Now, in our flesh, we will "fall" into sin -- but we never actively seek it out. We don't "continue" in it -- or we have not been saved. The Holy Spirit inside us would never allow that.

[Guest shiloh357]

Could I relinquish my eternal salvation Christ would cease to be the author of my salvation, and would render His promise of salvation null, and His sacrifice void. So then, the Bible, our so-called "manual" is of no help to us, as it does not specifically deal with the subject of "lost salvation." How could such an important matter be so delinquently overlooked by the author, God?

Could you relinquish your salvation? yes you can. Easily. Deliberately commit any sin and blatently refuse to repent of it. Then you would render Christs promise of salvation null, and His sacrifice void.

Its common sense nothing more.

Haz.

It's not biblical, though. A true Christian will not behave in that manner. The mark of a true Christian is heart and attitude of repentance. That precludes a true believer, being unrepentant in the first place.

[Guest shiloh357]

I understand what you are saying now.

I think we both can agree that we cannot lose salvation.

Where we differ is that, for example, a homosexual accepts and understands the gospel. He can present it to us back intelligently

and clearly. He accepts that "gift" from God. however, your stance is that he is not really saved if he continues to live in his lifestyle. Or not really saved

since he didn't change nor has a desire to change.

Wheres, I would say he is saved.

You might say that, but the Bible says otherwise. The problem is that you are going off of emotion, not Scripture. The Bible says that a person who is born of God cannot continue in sin (1 John 3:6-9). The Bible teaches that if any man is in Christ he is new creation, and that old things have passed and away and all things are become new (2 Cor. 5:17). That precludes a person from continuing in sin.

What would be the point of repenting of sin that intend continue living in? Is that even genuine repentance? If the repentance is insincere, on what basis would a perons's sincerity in accepting Christ exist?

The Bible says that the sacrifices of the wicked are an abomination to the Lord. (Proverbs 21:27). Wicked people come to God and seek absolution only to continue living in sin. There is no provision in Scripture for coming to Christ for forgiveness when fully intending to continue in the same sin over and over again. Such a person is NOT saved by the biblical standard.

[Smalcald]

There is no provision in Scripture for coming to Christ for forgiveness when fully intending to continue in the same sin over and over again. Such a person is NOT saved by the biblical standard.

So planned repetence is nor repentence at all? I think that is what you are saying and I totally agree.

So this would play right into the adultery and re-marriage question. A true Christian would not cheat and re-marry in the first place, then ask forgiveness to allow them to continue living in the second marriage.

On-going adultery is a planned event, it is not a rash of anger or a moment of lust which we repent and try to do better. To commit adultery means you were never saved in the first place.

[Guest shiloh357]

So planned repetence is nor repentence at all? I think that is what you are saying and I totally agree.

No, what I said was that there is no provision for inscincere repentance when the intent to go right back and live in continuous sin.

To commit adultery means you were never saved in the first place.

No, to commit adultery and enjoy it, would indicate that such a person was not saved to start with.

[Smalcald]

So planned repetence is nor repentence at all? I think that is what you are saying and I totally agree.

No, what I said was that there is no provision for inscincere repentance when the intent to go right back and live in continuous sin.

To commit adultery means you were never saved in the first place.

No, to commit adultery and enjoy it, would indicate that such a person was not saved to start with.

Okay yes I agree.

Let us say a person commits adultery, a planned sin over a course of years or months, repenting each time of course, then that person divorces and marries the lover and continues in this sin, then they would never have been saved.

[Smalcald]

In some ways this may be a better way to address this by simply saying if you are doing xy or z you are not saved and never were saved, don't delude yourself. Versus saying if you do these sins without repentence you are in danger of falling away from your salvation.

[Ovedya]

Could I relinquish my eternal salvation Christ would cease to be the author of my salvation, and would render His promise of salvation null, and His sacrifice void. So then, the Bible, our so-called "manual" is of no help to us, as it does not specifically deal with the subject of "lost salvation." How could such an important matter be so delinquently overlooked by the author, God?

Could you relinquish your salvation? yes you can. Easily. Deliberately commit any sin and blatently refuse to repent of it. Then you would render Christs promise of salvation null, and His sacrifice void.

Its common sense nothing more.

Haz.

It makes no sense, nothing less.

I am amazed how someone can take a verse from Scripture such as John 10:28, which says, "And I give to them eternal life, and they shall by no means perish forever, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand" and read it as "And I give to them eternal life (upon condition), and they shall by no means perish forever (Unless they one day turn away from Me), and no one (Except themselves) shall snatch them out of my hand."

By His precious blood Christ has given the believers eternal life. In so doing the Father is please to have us seated with Christ in the heavenlies. He has prepared a feast before us and seated us at the King's table to feast on Christ as our eternal life forever. How pathetic that some, because of their guilt, shame, and unreasonable sense of unworthiness, have taken such a precious honor and squandered it. It's as if the King has invited them to feast on the centerpiece dish and they tell him, "Oh, no, I'm not worthy to eat such a fine meal, I'll just eat the appetizers and hope that I don't mis-step, insult you, and get kicked out of the dining room to eat among the dongs (Even though I really deserve to eat with the dogs anyway). Christ's sacrifice has made us deserving of His grace, mercy and eternal life. It is insulting to the Spirit of grace to not "Come forward boldly to the throne of grace."