The return of the guillotine?

[Nero's Fiddle]

Antichrist will want to make very clear, and very horrifying, the alternative to taking his mark. I have no trouble at all believing that he would employ the use of a guillotine. They are a truly terrifying sight, especially when you are poised to be the next watermelon placed on the chopping block.

I'm a big fan of the pre-trib rapture, but I am not yet certain on this subject. I will serve God regardless, and praise Him until forever. If I'm still around when the the mark becomes law, I will thank God for allowing me to become a martyr in the name of Christ Jesus. It's an honor to serve Him in this life, but really, what a way to go!

[whatsitmean]

Hey Eric. I want to be the first in line because I am not taking any mark. :thumb:

That is exatly right starfire. Any body who finds themselves on this planet the morning after the Rapture had best spend the rest of their days looking for a man with a guillotine, because that will be about the only way to heaven then.

2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Not even your head.

2 Peter 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

[Nero's Fiddle]

Any body who finds themselves on this planet the morning after the Rapture had best spend the rest of their days looking for a man with a guillotine, because that will be about the only way to heaven then.

Hmm... the only way to salvation is through faith in Christ. Salvation through faith in Christ is perfect, and to it we can add nothing. We can add nothing, even by subtracting our heads...

[Guest Benny]

Any body who finds themselves on this planet the morning after the Rapture had best spend the rest of their days looking for a man with a guillotine, because that will be about the only way to heaven then.

Hmm... the only way to salvation is through faith in Christ. Salvation through faith in Christ is perfect, and to it we can add nothing. We can add nothing, even by subtracting our heads...

Those people in Revelations 20:4-6 that get their heads cut off go in the first resurection just like those scriptures say. And the first resurection is a moment before the rapture. Just like the scriptures say. You had better go back and read them again.

[Guest shadow2b]

-Those people in Revelations 20:4-6 that get their heads cut off go in the first resurection just like those scriptures say. And the first resurection is a moment before the rapture. Just like the scriptures say. You had better go back and read them again

-IT wouldn't do any good for them to be read again,the "escapist Theology"will prevail untill one

-split-second"before"the big blade falls. at which time i suggest

[rollinTHUNDER]

Those people in Revelations 20:4-6 that get their heads cut off go in the first resurection just like those scriptures say. And the first resurection is a moment before the rapture. Just like the scriptures say. You had better go back and read them again.

You have swallowed RCruise's theory, but it's not even close to being scriptural. All believers will go in the first resurrection, but not all at once. There is an order mentioned in scripture that must be followed. You can assume that everyone will be resurrected all in one shot, but you can't prove it with scripture. Enoch was raptured or caught up in his own time, so was Elijah in his time. Jesus, the head of the church, was resurrected and the rest of the body of Christ will go in their order. And the two witnesses will be resurrected and caught up together in the tribulation as well, just as those who will be beheaded. These are all part of the first resurrection.

We can all (pre, mid, & post-tribbers) claim that we will all go in the first resurrection and reduce the arguing, but it's really just a cop out that leaves one with more questions than answers. This was RCruises cop out, after he accused the pre-tribbers of being the deceivers that would be offended after entering the tribulation and start snitching on the post-tribbers. What a laugh! He can't prove such nonsense, but it does prove that he is worried about it, when the Bible tells us to be anxious for nothing.

1 Corintians 15:21-23 - "For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. (22)For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. (23)But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him."

The second resurrection has an order as well. At the end of the tribulation, the beast and false prophet are thrown into the fire. Satan will be thrown into the bottomless pit and sealed up for a thousand years. After the millennium, at the great white throne judgment, all of the other unbelievers will be thrown into the lake of fire, where the beast and false prophet are.

Also, you can't prove the first resurrection is a moment before the rapture with scripture. According to scripture, it appears that the first resurrection has already begun, and it is going in a certain order..................................

Revelation 20:4 - "I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

There are four sentences, or complete thoughts in this one verse. In the first sentence, would you suggest that these must be beheaded as well? Surely not, because many have served the Lord well without giving their heads, but they too, will be among those who go in the first resurrection. All believers from all generations will take part in the first resurrection, but each in his own turn.

Christ was the first fruits of the dead (old testament saints), but some will be the first fruits of the living, or those who are born again, in which the dead will rise first

1 Corinthians 15:20 - "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

The next to go will be the first fruits of the living. I believe the wise virgins will go with Christ' disciples, not just the 12, but all the disciplined ones throughout the entire age of grace.

James 1:18 - "Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."

[Guest shadow2b]

-SCRIPTURE-----

-2nd.Thess.2.vs.1-thru.4-----------

-Now we beseech you, brethren,by the coming of our LORD JESUS CHRIST,

-and by our gathering unto HIM,That ye be not soon shaken in mind,or be troubled,

-neither by spirit,nor by word,nor by letter as from us,as the day of CHRIST is at hand.

-Let no man deceive you by any means;for that day shall NOT come,except there come

-a falling away first,and that man of sin be revealed,the son of perdition;

-Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called GOD,or that is worshipped;

-so that he as GOD sitteth in the temple of GOD,shewing himself that he is GOD.

-These "scriptures" plainly state that {the gathering -of the saints}cannot be--will not be"gathered"

-to the LORD until "AFTER" there is a GREAT FALLING AWAY{of christians} from the "TRUTH" of the ----scriptures...for instance;one denomination has ordained an openly--practicing homosexual as

-a "bishop"ie "a leader"in that church denomination....most definitely a "falling away"-------

-which of course can only mean there will be "more"departures"from the "truth"of the scriptures-----

-Paul is quite explicit in these scriptures of "warning"to "the church"that WE MUST NOT BE DECEIVED

-by any"teachings"that would "try" to disprove,negate,change or state "these"scriptures do-not

-mean exactly what the say...."THE CHURCH"will SEE this man of sin be revealed & sitting in the

-temple of GOD in Jerusalem declaring himself to be GOD........There is NO escaping these "facts of

-scripture"

-Just to clarify & add to the "truth"of these scriptures let's take a look at a few more shall we??

-The escapist theology some like to quote is in----------

-1st.Thess.5.vs.2.---------

-For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the LORD so cometh as a thief in the

-night.

-This verse is quite often quoted by the escapists,the unlearned,even the arrogant,because

- they"think"they have a better understanding of the scriptures & very often throw other scriptures

-in with the "rapture--gathering unto" that supposedly confirms "their"own personal-new-inspired

-study or current authoritative spiritual revelation....NOT!!

- So let's back up & get the entire scripture "in context" & can in no way "prove" that JESUS is

-coming as a "thief in the night"for HIS church,BUT rather confirms exactly the opposite...."TRUTH"

-1st.Thess.5.vss.1.thru.6----------

-But of the times and the seasons,brethren,ye have no need that i write unto you.

-For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the LORD so cometh as a thief in the night....

-For when they shall say,Peace and safety;then sudden destruction cometh upon them,

-as travail upon a woman with child,and they shall not escape.But ye,brethren,are "NOT"

-in darkness,that that day should overtake you as a thief.Ye are all the children of light,

-and the children of the day,we are not of the night nor of darkness.

-Therefore let us not sleep as do others,but let us watch and be sober.......

-Paul clearly states that"WE--the church--the bride"are NOT of the "night" & that "that"day of the ----LORD will NOT take US by surprise{like a thief in the night}..Paul is clearly stating that this "church"

-of thess. already "knows"that he has explained this "day of the LORD" to them before & it makes ---no difference whether anyone else tries to explain this "DAY OF THE LORD"in a different way than ---what they have already been taught NOT to believe them.....apparently some clown had come in ----teaching that "the day of the LORD--the rapture--the gathering unto"the LORD had already

-happened----"spiritually".........Anyone notice "this" spiritualized away teaching has recently been

-REvived?????

-SO who are "WE-the church--the bride" supposed to believe???the scriptures?? or some

-errant teaching??I think we should be most carefull & wary of any teachings that come our way

-that try to lead us away from the clear word of GOD.....

-There are more scriptures that would go along with Pauls clear teaching of the "rapture"IF anyone

-would like to post them...i.e.-matt.24..........Daniel.chpts.9-10-11-12-----Joel.chpts.1-2-3------

-Amos.chpts.8---------Obadiah------Nahum--the judgement of the u.s. possibly???--

-Zechariah.5.vss.6.thru.9-----worthless money-?????

-IT gets very interesting when all these scriptures point to one specific time--in the last days--the

-latter days-----GOD-BLESS-ALL-TRUTH-SEEKERS------

[rollinTHUNDER]

-SCRIPTURE-----

-2nd.Thess.2.vs.1-thru.4-----------

-Now we beseech you, brethren,by the coming of our LORD JESUS CHRIST,

-and by our gathering unto HIM,That ye be not soon shaken in mind,or be troubled,

-neither by spirit,nor by word,nor by letter as from us,as the day of CHRIST is at hand.

-Let no man deceive you by any means;for that day shall NOT come,except there come

-a falling away first,and that man of sin be revealed,the son of perdition;

-Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called GOD,or that is worshipped;

-so that he as GOD sitteth in the temple of GOD,shewing himself that he is GOD.

Nice scripture, and I have no problem with it at all. I agree completely. The falling away and the revealing of the son of perdiction will definitely come before the day of the Lord. It's the post-trib believers who are confused about what the day of the Lord is. The day of the Lord is not the rapture. Neither is the gathering for the second coming the rapture.

The day of the Lord will last a thousand years. It's the millennial reign of Christ and His church, the sabbath day of the Lord, not the rapture. The rapture will be finished in a twinkling of an eye, not a day and not 1000 years.

Here's the day of the Lord:

2 Peter 3:8 - "But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."

This gathering that you assume is the rapture, will take place just before the the second coming. When Christ is ready to rule and reign on the earth for 1000 years. In this gathering, Christ will gather from BOTH, heaven and earth. It's different than the rapture. In the rapture, the dead will rise first, then those who are alive and remain will rise immediately after. The dead and then those still alive, both will rise in the rapture, but that's not what we see in this gathering.

Here's the gathering that you confuse with the rapture :

Ephesians 1:10 - "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him:"

Again, this gathering is not the rapture. While you are waiting in line to cheerfully give your head, some of us will already be in heaven:

Mark 13:27 - "And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." - (This gathering can not be the rapture)

It's important to remember that in the rapture we go up, but in the second coming/day of the Lord we are coming back down to rule and reign for 1000 years.

I guess it comes down to what we choose to put our hope in, the tribulation or our deliverer. Praise God some of us will escape, just like the Bible says in Luke 21:36 and Rev.3:10!!

My deliverer is comin' - My deliverer is standin' by

My deliverer is comin'!! Hallelujah!! Praises to His Name!!

[RCruise]

Gary:

I see rt cannot read scripture still!

"...and by our gathering unto HIM..."

He cannot figure out what that event is!

[rollinTHUNDER]

Gary:

I see rt cannot read scripture still!

"...and by our gathering unto HIM..."

He cannot figure out what that event is!

:il: Surely someone who calls himself a preacher can do better than this? This is not even worthy of my time. :c: