Question for anti-evolutionists

[ConScience]

Okay, ConScience, I'll give you some of my own ideas. I guess it's not fair if we just say 'you're wrong' and don't counter anything.

I believe God spoke the universe into being about 14/15 billion years ago and I believe the earth is VERY old, billions of years, and, for most of it's history, no life was present. God started life many millions of years ago and He made many different 'kinds' during that time. Most of them were destroyed but only He knows why. When God decided to create the world as it is now, He created the 'kinds' we see now and, most importantly, US, you and I. No species has evolved into another, ever; He made all living things adaptable for survivability though. You've asked several times if we are made of clay; no, the Bible tells us we were fashioned from the dust of the earth and, sure enough, our bodies contain trace minerals just as could be expected.

FINALLY! I knew I could count on you, MG.

Phew, it's like getting blood out of a stone.

Would you say that others believe the same thing, too? I thought that some Christians believed that the earth was only 10,000 years old. Is that true, or was I mistaken?

No, you're not mistaken; some do believe that. Some believe as I do, many do not. What's really important is that we ALL believe God created us, He is the one true God and He sent His son, Jesus, to atone for our sin to grant us a way to salvation. That Jesus died for us, was resurrected after three days and ascended to Heaven. That He will return to establish His Kingdom on earth; that we will all stand before Him in judgment, every knee will bow and acknowledge Him as God and we will all receive our final reward or punishment.

Yes, I got the Every Knee Shall Bow thing from HorizonEast, too. So I guess you've already had a pow-wow.

Thanks anyway, MG.

[MorningGlory]

Okay, ConScience, I'll give you some of my own ideas. I guess it's not fair if we just say 'you're wrong' and don't counter anything.

I believe God spoke the universe into being about 14/15 billion years ago and I believe the earth is VERY old, billions of years, and, for most of it's history, no life was present. God started life many millions of years ago and He made many different 'kinds' during that time. Most of them were destroyed but only He knows why. When God decided to create the world as it is now, He created the 'kinds' we see now and, most importantly, US, you and I. No species has evolved into another, ever; He made all living things adaptable for survivability though. You've asked several times if we are made of clay; no, the Bible tells us we were fashioned from the dust of the earth and, sure enough, our bodies contain trace minerals just as could be expected.

FINALLY! I knew I could count on you, MG.

Phew, it's like getting blood out of a stone.

Would you say that others believe the same thing, too? I thought that some Christians believed that the earth was only 10,000 years old. Is that true, or was I mistaken?

No, you're not mistaken; some do believe that. Some believe as I do, many do not. What's really important is that we ALL believe God created us, He is the one true God and He sent His son, Jesus, to atone for our sin to grant us a way to salvation. That Jesus died for us, was resurrected after three days and ascended to Heaven. That He will return to establish His Kingdom on earth; that we will all stand before Him in judgment, every knee will bow and acknowledge Him as God and we will all receive our final reward or punishment.

Yes, I got the Every Knee Shall Bow thing from HorizonEast, too. So I guess you've already had a pow-wow.

Thanks anyway, MG.

Wrong; there was no pow-wow. That is an integral part of our faith and every Christian knows that passage from the Bible. You're pretty quick to decide what people think for someone who's supposed to be a scientist. Did my last post put you out, or what? Do you really want our ideas and beliefs....I wonder?

[CSLewis]

"No, you're not mistaken; some do believe that. Some believe as I do, many do not. What's really important is that we ALL believe God created us, He is the one true God and He sent His son, Jesus, to atone for our sin to grant us a way to salvation. That Jesus died for us, was resurrected after three days and ascended to Heaven. That He will return to establish His Kingdom on earth; that we will all stand before Him in judgment, every knee will bow and acknowledge Him as God and we will all receive our final reward or punishment. "

I am a Christian after all!!!!!! Yay!!!!!

[humbleseeker]

All true Christians are not going to have there mind changed, about our Lord. Us who have a relationship with God. I dont put alot of stock in what the world tells me.

[MorningGlory]

All true Christians are not going to have there mind changed, about our Lord. Us who have a relationship with God. I dont put alot of stock in what the world tells me.

Very true; it's been tried dozens of times just in the three years I've been posting on this board.

[Boash]

There's a definite patten here; the evolutionists talk and talk and talk....but never actually show the purported link between man and other beings. The agenda is not to educate or defend a position....it's to sow discord and doubt among believers. And it ALWAYS fails.

Interesting that you should accuse me of that.

Yet all I've asked for it for you to explain your ideas to me.

And that is what Worthy exists for, isn't it?

I'm not trying to sow discord or doubt.

I'd be happier if you all had the same ideas, actually, so unity would be preferable - at least that way I could get my head around it all.

You're right about one thing: my agenda is not to educate. It is to exchange views.

It is hard to exchange views with one who starts out by telling you that you're stupid, which is in effect what is meant by continually stating that anyone who understands science accepts evolution. Inferred meaning is that anyone who disagrees with what you have to say does not know what they are talking about. There for I don't see what there is to converse. Whether or not you chose to believe it or not there are people who understand science and reject evolution, Dr. Jobe Martin just to name one. Of course to you that means they just don't get it or they would agree with you.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Boash

[JIME]

I have been wondering if any of the people here can name some predictions of what type of evidence we should be looking for concerning evolution. For instance, if we take the basic idea that humans and chimpanzees share a common ancestor, what sort of evidence would we expect there to be for this? If these two organisms do share a common ancestor it would mean that their two genomes, which we can see now and examine in essentially as much detail as we want, were formerly the same genome, in the common ancestor, and that differences have built up since they split. Working on this basis, what would we expect the two modern genomes to look like? What evidence should there be that these two genomes are ultimately derived from the same one?

As a follow on, if the genetic data sets the existence of the common ancestor at around 5-7 million years ago, what should the fossil record look like from that point on?

I would humbly suggest that because the two "organisms" were created by the same God, that would be the reason for the simular genomes. God is the common ancestor.

[Boash]

It is hard to exchange views with one who starts out by telling you that you're stupid, which is in effect what is meant by continually stating that anyone who understands science accepts evolution.

He's actually not that far off from the truth, though I would counter that it would be more accurate to say that no one who understands the evidence disagrees that there is overwhelming evidence for evolution. The fact that some choose to believe evolution did not occur in spite of all that evidence and can produce no other internally consistent theory that can explain that evidence differently is really more of a testament to the power of cognitive dissonance than anything else.

Whether or not you chose to believe it or not there are people who understand science and reject evolution, Dr. Jobe Martin just to name one. Of course to you that means they just don't get it or they would agree with you.

Dr. Martin's doctorate is, apparently, in dentistry. He holds a masters degree in systematic theology (source) . As far as I can tell that's the sum total of his credentials which isn't at all very impressive, and since I see he's included the bombadier beetle in his list of animals evolution can't explain I'll be willing to go out on a limb and say that this guy has no idea what he's talking about as this is an epic PRATT. All in all a terrible "authority" to hang your hat on.

Lurker

Lurker here are few more for you to critic just for kicks: E. Theo Agard, Alan Gillen, D. Russell Humphreys and the list could go on. But while we are on the credentials kick what are yours?

[ForwardFromEden]

I would expect, if we shared a common ancestor, to find hybrids at some point. If a group splits into two genomes you wouldn't suddenly see two species. It would seem that there would be interbreeding for ages. I'm not aware of any fossils that show this. Do they exist?

No, they do not exist. Your analysis is correct. This is where evolution falls flat every time, there would have to be intermediate species that do not exist.

If your question was directed at one person, I did not mean to be rude.

[leoxiii]

I have been wondering if any of the people here can name some predictions of what type of evidence we should be looking for concerning evolution. For instance, if we take the basic idea that humans and chimpanzees share a common ancestor, what sort of evidence would we expect there to be for this? If these two organisms do share a common ancestor it would mean that their two genomes, which we can see now and examine in essentially as much detail as we want, were formerly the same genome, in the common ancestor, and that differences have built up since they split. Working on this basis, what would we expect the two modern genomes to look like? What evidence should there be that these two genomes are ultimately derived from the same one?

As a follow on, if the genetic data sets the existence of the common ancestor at around 5-7 million years ago, what should the fossil record look like from that point on?

Better yet, what should we look for if the theory that the earth is in the center of the universe is true?

An even spattering of matter all around us?

Bingo!