Baptism

[leoxiii]

My friends -- I am not just asking questions for the sake of asking them. I am not a sophist, nor do I engage in sophistry. What I am trying to determine here is if you really are putting forth what seems to me to be a works based salvation.

"I believed because I had the capacity to believe. Therefore I am saved."

That is how it is coming across.

[OneLight]

If they cannot interpret what is sin and what is not, how can they be held accountable? If we, as humans, understand this, God, being pure love, understands it even more.

If no sin is imputed to them, why do they need a Saviour?

Just because they don't understand it does not mean that they need no savior. Another strawman.

[Guest shiloh357]

The truth that was stated is at some point all children of normal intellect will reach the mental maturity to understand the gospel message and *at that point* they must make their decision.

So what is the fate of those who never develop "the mental maturity to understand the gospel message"?

What is the fate of those who do not have "normal intellect"?

God meets all of us where are at. God can communicate His gospel to anyone anywhere, and He is not hamstrung by mental disabilities. God is fair and just and will handle exceptional situations accordingly.

[leoxiii]

The truth that was stated is at some point all children of normal intellect will reach the mental maturity to understand the gospel message and *at that point* they must make their decision.

So what is the fate of those who never develop "the mental maturity to understand the gospel message"?

What is the fate of those who do not have "normal intellect"?

God meets all of us where are at. God can communicate His gospel to anyone anywhere, and He is not hamstrung by mental disabilities. God is fair and just and will handle exceptional situations accordingly.

So, what prevents little babies from having faith?

[OneLight]

The truth that was stated is at some point all children of normal intellect will reach the mental maturity to understand the gospel message and *at that point* they must make their decision.

So what is the fate of those who never develop "the mental maturity to understand the gospel message"?

What is the fate of those who do not have "normal intellect"?

God meets all of us where are at. God can communicate His gospel to anyone anywhere, and He is not hamstrung by mental disabilities. God is fair and just and will handle exceptional situations accordingly.

So, what prevents little babies from having faith?

Who ever said they don't have faith? They have complete faith in what they do know, their parents. Yet, they do not know scripture until they can understand, so the faith for salvation cannot yet be had.

[leoxiii]

Yet, they do not know scripture until they can understand, so the faith for salvation cannot yet be had.

So, the faith for salvation is utterly dependent on knowing the Scriptures?

This is absolutely and utterly a works based salvation that you are proclaiming here, my friend.

[leoxiii]

Your Magisterium has misinformed you.

And your own mind has misinformed you.

[Smalcald]

What is all nations?

I don't see any prohibition to not baptize infants or children.

But once again if Baptism is something that we do to show that we have repented of our sins and accepted Christ as our Lord and Savior then I would agree that of course infants should not and could not do that.

If Baptism is something that God does for us and to us, then that changes everything, so it comes down to that, I understand both points, but personally I find scripture supports baptizing as a means of grace and not as an outward expression of an inward transformation.

But in the end we all agree that we all need to do it, I think we can all agree on that correct?

[Smalcald]

What is all nations?

I don't see any prohibition to not baptize infants or children.

But once again if Baptism is something that we do to show that we have repented of our sins and accepted Christ as our Lord and Savior then I would agree that of course infants should not and could not do that.

If Baptism is something that God does for us and to us, then that changes everything, so it comes down to that, I understand both points, but personally I find scripture supports baptizing as a means of grace and not as an outward expression of an inward transformation.

But in the end we all agree that we all need to do it, I think we can all agree on that correct?

I think we can and should agree that baptism is part of the gospel of Christ

[kross]

Salvation only comes through Christ, not baptism. What happens is when you make an outward profession or profession, your faith increases, so this can happen when baptized. As you can tell from my previous post, I was under the thought that You were referring to salvation and baptism were simultaneously. For that, I apologize if I was wrong ... was I?

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? Rise up, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, invoking his name.

The Scriptures cannot be more clear.

Baptism in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is an absolute necessity of salvation.

It is Baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, which makes the believer "born again".

John 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Titus 3:5 Not by the works of justice, which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost;

Acts 2:38 But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

In which of these verses of Scripture does it say that Baptism is apart from Christ, and not for the remission of sins?

Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves;

it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Acts 2:21

And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved.