KINGDOM OF MESSIAH

[traveller]

This topic has been a dividing line for generations. Unfortunately, even on this forum. It is my hope tht it can continue through peace and through the earnest desire to learn and to examine the scriptures.

Family - please keep it civil. Many learn from these posts. It pains me when we have to close threads because the family became unruly.

Again - please.

[lekh l'kha]

It certainly has.

All believers eagerly await the hope and promise of God of a New Heaven and new earth.

Jesus is the fulfillment of prophecy. God promised eternal life and an eternal Israel in Christ, we as gentiles should be extremely grateful to be grafted into this life and land.

But that land does not exist today, according to the scripture posted above and other scripture, the current earth will be destroyed.

See, none of that diminishes God's promises to Israel. The current earth will be renovated (not destroyed) but God's promises will not suddenly disappear with the current age we live in. The New Heavens and New Earth do not nullify God's promises to Israel.

I realize you have taken great pains in your posts to make those promises appear as unimportant an meaningless as possible, but your endeavors are fruitless.

Why would you say that? I have not posted very much on this thread, mainly just some scripture.

Jesus IS the promise! What could be better than that? Are you somehow claiming that there is something better than Jesus? As long as we focus on Christ and His kingdom and not on this earth we are fine. But as scripture shows this earth is passing away, where is our treasure? Is our treasure in heaven or on this rotten sinful earth?

How is any of that even relevant to the topic??? Did someone say there is a better promise than Christ??? No. We are discussing the promises God made to Israel and why they are not transferred to the Church.

I find the whole topic stupid and trivial, generally a waste of time for believers. Transferred promises.., it sounds like we are arguing over who gets what from Christ? Who cares there is only one promise that matters and that is the promise of Christ to all believers, and indeed we are grafted on to this promise as it did indeed come through the Jew's I certainly do not deny that. What could the Church steal from Israel? There is one Body, One Spirit, One Baptism, what we do outside of THAT is not going to last anyway.

Firstly, the theology that teaches that the church has replaced Israel brings the Holy Word of God which came to Abraham into question, and God calls this teaching a profanation of His Holy name in Ezekiel 36: 20.

Secondly, those who have persecuted and hated Jews and Israel have justified their hatred and persecution using this exact theology.

You may find the whole topic stupid and trivial, but the God Whom you serve does not.

But don't you find the whole concept of who replaces who at its heart anti-Christian?

Yes - so why do you teach it? Why do you teach that the Church has replaced Israel - especially since it goes against everything that's written in the Bible from God's covenant with Abraham onward? It denigrates the Word of God by implying that He is sneaky enough to make unsolicited

promises to a human family which He has no intention of keeping with that same human family.

[lekh l'kha]

Where is Jerusalem?

24These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written:

"Be glad, O barren woman,

who bears no children;

break forth and cry aloud,

you who have no labor pains;

because more are the children of the desolate woman

than of her who has a husband."

28Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son."[c] 31Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

18You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 19to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, 20because they could not bear what was commanded: "If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned."[c] 21The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, "I am trembling with fear."[d]

22But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

25See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? 26At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, "Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens."[e] 27The words "once more" indicate the removing of what can be shaken

[lekh l'kha]

you keep citing your opinions and cherry-picking single verses and misdirecting them out of context. That's so greek....

Can you provide proof for your baseless notion?

you provide ample proof with every post!?

What' the matter Iekh - are you out of ammunition?

This topic has been a dividing line for generations. Unfortunately, even on this forum. It is my hope tht it can continue through peace and through the earnest desire to learn and to examine the scriptures.

Family - please keep it civil. Many learn from these posts. It pains me when we have to close threads because the family became unruly.

Again - please.

God bless you, horizoneast. If you believe in Jesus (which I believe you do), I won't have to explain to you what you can't understand when we arrive in the days of His Kingdom come in full - you will see it for yourself.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

This thread ended after sister Rhonda's admonition, IMO.

Here's the deal though. This Ministry exists to discuss these very issues. It exposes Doctrine to the Light of Truth when we debate it. We should debate in the Spirit rather than the flesh and then let the reader, like the Berean, test our arguent against the Light of Scripture to determine whether what we say or hold to be Truth is in fact God's revealed Truth.

Peace,

Dave