Christian Preacher Becomes Athiest

[wyguy]

that certainly applies to people like that marjoe person you mentioned. do you deny that apostasy happens among individuals?

I believe a person can become apostate, sure. But I also believe that if a person is, in fact, truly saved, his/her salvation is kept and assured by Christ. Even if that person's works are all burned up. (1 Corinthians 3:14-15)

All believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit, and the Bible says, because of that seal, we are guaranteed our inheritance. (Ephesians 1:13-14)

[Guest LadyC]

that certainly applies to people like that marjoe person you mentioned. do you deny that apostasy happens among individuals?

I believe a person can become apostate, sure. But I also believe that if a person is, in fact, truly saved, his/her salvation is kept and assured by Christ. Even if that person's works are all burned up. (1 Corinthians 3:14-15)

All believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit, and the Bible says, because of that seal, we are guaranteed our inheritance. (Ephesians 1:13-14)

then you don't believe a person can become apostate. because scripture clearly defines what that is, which is those who believe and then reject.

you seem to be confusing two different concepts... the concept of losing salvation vs. turning one's back on salvation. it's ok, lots of people think they are the same issue, but they're not. they're two different things, and both are clearly and repeatedly addressed in scripture. as to the first concept, losing salvation, God says it is impossible. as to accepting salvation and later rejecting it, that is what God calls apostasy, and it is not only possible, but God goes to a great deal of effort to warn us not to do that.

anyway, chew on that if you want to. it's not a salvational issue, so there's no point in getting into a lengthy debate on it. those happen over this subject several times a year, and they never accomplish anything.

[wyguy]

that certainly applies to people like that marjoe person you mentioned. do you deny that apostasy happens among individuals?

I believe a person can become apostate, sure. But I also believe that if a person is, in fact, truly saved, his/her salvation is kept and assured by Christ. Even if that person's works are all burned up. (1 Corinthians 3:14-15)

All believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit, and the Bible says, because of that seal, we are guaranteed our inheritance. (Ephesians 1:13-14)

then you don't believe a person can become apostate. because scripture clearly defines what that is, which is those who believe and then reject.

you seem to be confusing two different concepts... the concept of losing salvation vs. turning one's back on salvation. it's ok, lots of people think they are the same issue, but they're not. they're two different things, and both are clearly and repeatedly addressed in scripture. as to the first concept, losing salvation, God says it is impossible. as to accepting salvation and later rejecting it, that is what God calls apostasy, and it is not only possible, but God goes to a great deal of effort to warn us not to do that.

anyway, chew on that if you want to. it's not a salvational issue, so there's no point in getting into a lengthy debate on it. those happen over this subject several times a year, and they never accomplish anything.

One can turn their back on salvation and never receive it. But Jesus himself said of those that are His, that nothing in all creation can separate us from the love of God (Romans 8:39) If you are a part of creation, that includes yourself. And that no one (not even youself, as you are a person) can snatch a believer out of Christ's hand. (John 10:27-28)

But, I agree. There are many, many threads on the OSAS issue. And I suppose we don't need to turn this one into another.

Blessings to you.

[Fez]

Perhaps?

Mat 13:20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy,

Mat 13:21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.

Mat 13:22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.

I guess the talking point here would be how one defines "endures for a while". In God's time that could be a small blip on the radar of 17 years?

[nebula]

There's a difference between knowing about God and knowing God. How many people, even ministers, don't really know God?

The most convincing evidence for me of God is when I soak in His presence. There is just nothing like it!

[Smalcald]

I dont know, we have already had a bunch of threads on once saved.

To me though it shows that we cannot get too bound up with individual ministers. I think there are indeed ministers out there who do not have faith, at least that is what they tell themselves. They have lost thier first love.

It does not really matter if they were really saved or not, but it just is a cautionary tale about how we view our leaders.

I think sometimes people just get burned out also, some of these traveling guys give the same speel over and over and over in each town they go to, it might just become a "job" for them. When that happens they are in trouble.

[Fez]

I dont know, we have already had a bunch of threads on once saved.

To me though it shows that we cannot get too bound up with individual ministers. I think there are indeed ministers out there who do not have faith, at least that is what they tell themselves. They have lost thier first love.

It does not really matter if they were really saved or not, but it just is a cautionary tale about how we view our leaders.

I think sometimes people just get burned out also, some of these traveling guys give the same speel over and over and over in each town they go to, it might just become a "job" for them. When that happens they are in trouble.

Right. Never ever, never, follow the man. From this, false teaching can arise, (not always of course), and cults are born.

[jsca777]

Older article, but interesting nonetheless. ...I have to question *how* a 17 year veteran preacher can deconvert into an athiest over the course of 4-5 years. That's just mind-boggling for me.

It shouldn't really surprise you. 1st Timothy4:1 says that in these times, many will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. Atheism claims that there is not God. That is perhaps Satan's biggest lie out there. That is a doctrine of devils.

Since 1st Timothy mentions that many will depart from christianity, the church, why should this surprise you? Just because he was a minister doesn't exempt him from going back into the mires of sin. All being a minister is, is a title. Titles don't mean anything as to where a person's heart is. If any other christan can fall away from God, so can a minister. I remember a pastor who's wife was the associate pastor and they both operated in the gift of prophecy. She divorced him, and said she did not want to serve God anymore. I also read about a woman who had been a Sunday school teacher in a baptist church, and now she's a satanist. Shen went from being a devout christian, to a satanist.

God gave each of us a freewill, it's up to each individual what they choose to do with their life. Romans1:20 mentions they are without excuse. Many choose to be fools and deny God. Even those who onces served Him.

[Aleksander]

And lots of former atheists become Christians. It really is nothing new. It all depends on how grounded you are in your position.

or how you were converted... some people "make a decision for Christ". They later fall away because they were preached Christ who would make them feel better, make their life better... they were not, or very little, taught about sin, Hell or what Christ's death and resurrection means. They were told of a medicine(salvation) but not of the disease(sin, not made to personally realism their transgression against God and a need for a Savior). If he was converted but fell away because of events in his life, then maybe something did not completely click in place during his conversion? was he not completely sure of what he was converted into? did he realize his own transgressions and that Savior from sin and wrath is what he needs, not a savior from hard life? did he not trust God during these events of his life than led him to atheism? Edited November 24, 2009 by Aleksander

[Rick-Parker]

He was never truly saved. One who has the Holy Spirit within them cannot then be lost.