The place of the prophet in the new testament.

[Scudbuddy]

I did not say that the apostles in the NT brought the church to unity. (Though the church was definitely more unified than they are today. "They were all of one heart........." ) But that is the point. There is a job to do, and the 5 fold ministry is part of it. Again, what does it say in Ephesians. ".......until they come into the unity of the faith."

Hasn't happened. So either Paul blew it by quoting the need for the 5 fold ministry, or the job is waiting to be done with the offices waiting to be filled.

As far as the guy that the apostles replaced having to be someone who has been with Jesus, first this conversation is about the ministry of the prophet. Where did the prophets get disqualified for not being a witness.

Second; is it possible that the apostles had an incredibly rich group of people to pick a replacement for Judas, (they needed to replace him since Jesus sent them out 2x2 for many reasons) that they used that for the criteria for picking Judas replacement. This guy had hung around Jesus and didn't need to be trained on how He felt about things, and probaly from hanging around Jesus might have picked up some anointing. Notice they threw lots to decide who to pick. Since you are very strict about doing it exactly the way the bible says it is done, may I ask, does your church pick your ministers through throwing lots?

So you don't do things exactly like the apostles did because we live in different times? I can understand that. Different times, different methods. But back to qualities of an apostle.

So hanging around Jesus can qualify you for the office of apostleship? I hang around Jesus. I know many others who hang around Jesus. Of course if you are into the apostles and early christians being better than us because they physically knew Jesus, then you are in fact contradicting Jesus description of the saints later in history. "Blessed are they who have not seen and still believe." Hanging with Jesus is a great qualification. I just happen to know it didn't stop with the early christians.

It is easy to use the Word to hand-cuff the saints. I see it all the time. God comes and does miracles that bring thousands of people to the Lord, and somebody yells "Where is that particular miracle in the bible?" (I have actually seen that happen.) i.e. A woman whose teeth were all crooked and corroded was prayed for by my team. The Lord showed me her hatred for her husband, and when the interpreter told her this, she let out a scream, and her jaw shook sideways violently. "Wheres' that in the bible!" is the motto heard throughout the community of christians who are more into form than substance. It doesn't matter that she was divinely healed instantly. It didn't happen in the bible, so it is not allowed.

Of course those same people don't allow for healings that did happen in the bible either. Their lack of faith is not picky.

[stevehut]

1- I did not say that the apostles in the NT brought the church to unity.

2- As far as the guy that the apostles replaced having to be someone who has been with Jesus, first this conversation is about the ministry of the prophet.

3- Second; is it possible that the apostles had an incredibly rich group of people to pick a replacement for Judas,

4- Since you are very strict about doing it exactly the way the bible says it is done,

5- So hanging around Jesus can qualify you for the office of apostleship? I hang around Jesus.

1- Yes, I know. I said that.

2- I didn't bring up apostles. Someone else did, and I reacted to the comparison.

3- Possibly. But they still made this the requirement.

4- Nope. You misunderstand me. I see the Bible precedents, and I'm asking.

5- Nope. These guys saw him in the flesh.

[nebula]

It doesn't matter that she was divinely healed instantly. It didn't happen in the bible, so it is not allowed.

Of course those same people don't allow for healings that did happen in the bible either. Their lack of faith is not picky.

That is sooooo true!

I'd love to see these people trying to be missionaries in some of these third world country areas with towns run by witch doctors. Then tell me they don't need the spiritual gifts!

[blessed2]

Hi bros and sis's,

Interesting topic.I have much understanding and wisdom to seek regarding this topic.But, may i interrupt and ask if any here could explain to me the term'mantle'

when used in context with prophets or prophecy,as well as where in scripture I might find 'mantle' used.

Thank you so much.I appreciate you all, b2

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Have you guys forgot about the two prophets in the book of Revelation. This is speaking of a future event. So evidently God is still using prophets today and in the future. Why would God send more prophets if he is done giving revelation?

The bible also speaks about in the last days God pouring out his Spirit on all flesh and prophesy being used. So the bible is clear that the use of prophesy will not go away until the Lord comes.

Act 2:17-21 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: (18) And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: (19) And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: (20) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: (21) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

We still need prophets in the church to help give specific guidance and direction to the local church body especially in these last days.. The Bible (Cannonized and finalized by the RCC) gives general practical direction for living a Godly life but It does not give specific direction and guidance that the local church needs. To say that we do not did prophets because there is no more revelation is simple prideful and arrogent. Its the foot saying to the mouth I no longer need you.

This is why so many people are quick to judge someone a false prophet is because they dont believe in real prophets.

[Guest shiloh357]

Snake handling and drinking poison are not gifts.

Thanks, but that wasn't my question.

In the record of Mark 16, there is no (apparent) distinction. Is there?

It is not a sin to use a bit of common sense, you know...

Even a cursory reading would tell you that there is difference between the gifts of the spirit and a moment of divine intervention/protection.

[Scudbuddy]

Steve,

You are sticking to your guns on this in a very admirable way. Not insulting, and I appreciate that. Our worldview is so different because we have had such different experiences. My experience time after time is God does what He has always done. Miracles.

Sometimes we delegate the word to our reason. We see it through the filter of our reason. And your posistion is logical and reasonable.

Can we agree to disagree?

Oh, and except for a very small group of hyper-Pentecostals in the South, not too many Pentecostals handle snakes. But if like Paul, they were bit, they would trust God to handle it. I actually know of pastors being poisoned who should have died horribly and painfully, but did not. It brought the Witch Doctors to Jesus.

God bless!

[stevehut]

1- You are sticking to your guns on this in a very admirable way. Not insulting, and I appreciate that.

2- not too many Pentecostals handle snakes.

1- Thanks. But I really don't have any guns to stick to here. Just looking for an answer with a consistent rule of interpretation.

2- Ya, I've heard that.

[stevehut]

Even a cursory reading would tell you that there is difference between the gifts of the spirit and a moment of divine intervention/protection.

Then why would they be listed together and intermingled like that? I'm trying to figure out a consistent rule of interpretation that would account for that distinction.

Do you at least understand my confusion?

[Guest shadow2b]

-To say that G-d does not move in the prophetic today through the Holy Spirit is tantamount to saying the Holy Spirit chooses not to inspire godly individuals to speak to the Church concerning the heart of G-d for His people.

-BOTZ-ee-Baby--Brother--Friend teacher--encourager--TRUTH-Speaker--

-yupppp-botzee --you are most decidedly CO-RRECT--100%--

-NOW that I have{AS usual{made a couple of Friends--brothers--sisters--& a Mountain of Emenies}---I'M sorry I jes can't hepp-mahseff-when it comes ta Scriptural--TRUTH--I'really am sorry guys & I really don't like ta argee-fyy-BUT ya'll are gonna have to{& please-forgive me but I usually step on "Some"of my antagonistic Brothers toes-bout this time hyarr}-I don't mean to but I really just can't let something that is soooo--simple--IF ya study GOD'S WORD--& leave the

{Denominational dogmas--doctrines--phylosophy-out}to understand---

--IF Paul INSTRUCTS the "church"IN how Tongues--prophecy-& everything that is defined as "Spiritual-gifts"are to be used & tested in the "Church-setting"why is it so hard to understand that Prophets--speak-up--speak-forth--TO EDIFY "THE-CHURCH"to encourage--to CORRECT---TO WARN---Tongues are to be used in a Proper manifestation--orderly---IS this NOT a Prophet??IF there are NO more NEED for prophets--THE CANON IS CLOSED--YES that's TRUE--But Prophets do NOT ADD TO THE CLOSED CANON-NOR do they "TAKE-AWAY"-They Confirm--instruct -- Those that speak "IN another Tongue"do so WHEN instructed to do so by --The HOLY-SPIRIT--in an orderly fashion & IF the HOLY-SPIRIT speaks thru one then it is for Edification of the body--perhaps a Correction about some SIN--that has not been dealt with----also can be a Warning---

-Please guys & Gals JUST listen ---learn IN LOVE---NO DIVISIONS---CONSIDER-

-THE GIFTS OF THE HOLY-SPIRIT--belong TO the HOLY-SPIRIT--HE is the ONE speaking in another tongue--HE is the one using the office of a Prophet--HE is the ONE prophesying--the man/woman is only the "Vessel"THRU which the HOLY-SPIRIT is speaking---Shouldn't "THAT-FACT"cause you to STOP??---THINK??--

-CONSIDER- WHO YOU attribute/are stating the gifts-ARE BEING USED IMPROPERLY BY THE HOLY-SPIRIT-Don't you UNDERSTAND THAT??

IT is NOT the person you are judging & condemning--YOU ARE Condemning the "HOLY-SPIRIT"--

-I have some more to say on this subject But I want ya'LL to READ this & LOOK AT IT CLOSELY---THINK--ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE JUST READ!!!!Please???

THANK YOU MY BROTHERS & SISTERS-----CONSIDER--PLEASE------