The place of the prophet in the new testament.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Shiloh,

So if we lived in a theocracy, you would stone em?

Probably not me personally, but in a theocracy, a false prophet would be put to death, according to the Torah.

You should also kill your children if they lie or disrepect you but I dont see many people out their following the law of moses and killing their kids. Nor have I found any example in the bible either.

Thank God for mercy or we would all be dead.

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh,

So if we lived in a theocracy, you would stone em?

Probably not me personally, but in a theocracy, a false prophet would be put to death, according to the Torah.

You should also kill your children if they lie or disrepect you but I dont see many people out their following the law of moses and killing their kids. Nor have I found any example in the bible either.

Thank God for mercy or we would all be dead.

Yes, under a theocracy, rebellious children would be killed too. You see the sacrifices, if you read the Torah, only covered unintentional sins. They did not cover blatant premeditated acts of rebellion.

[Arthur Durnan]

Why dabble with modern-day "prophets" in any way, shape or form if we already have the completed (Jude 1:3, in the Greek, "once FOR ALL TIME delivered to the saints...") Scriptures of Truth? Steady on, old boy.

We speak with studied irrelevance if we bypass the settled, reliable, authoritative, everlasting Word of God, the Holy Bible, the very Book from which we'll be judged at the Final Assize!

"...if they speak not acc. to this book, it's because there is no light in them." very interesting, no?

God bless America!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Scudbuddy]

Arthur,

First, let us quote from that Bible you respect.

"Despise not prophecy." This was not speaking about the written word. This was in context to the gift of prophecy used in a church setting.

"I wish that all would prophecy."

Prophecy as a gift is held above the gift of tongues in I Cor.13

Cessationist try to claim it ceased with a passage about love, and the gifts passing away.

Yet they hold on to knowledge. That verse puts knowledge in the same catagory as tongues.

That verse in it self shows that the gifts are needed. Love is definitely not ruling this planet. When we get to heaven, and God is in control, then we won't need the gifts. The gifts serve a purpose of counter-acting the Kingdom of this world. When Gods Kingdom is fully established, then we will cease to need miracles.

Church historians record that the gift of prophecy was well into use through the 4th century as a normal everyday gift in the early church. It was Constantines advocation of the church that began to undermine the gifts being used in the church. The titles and posistions became more important than the role of the average believer. Pretty soon the word was only in a form that the highly educated, and often paganistic in belief priest could read. There were many priest that could not even read the bible. It became an elite occupation whose ranks were as far from God as any man can get. This is why the gifts ceased in most of the church. But a systematic study of Church history shows that there was always a remnant who practiced the gifts including prophecy.

And no one can honestly say they know anything about Church history and claim that the gifts ceased the day the last apostle died. That is either ignorance or a biased cover-up of truth. And Prophecy was up-held as a pre-immenint gift. It was very important through the first 300 years of history. And Church history also shows us that the church didn't stone people when they missed it, but corrected their mistakes according to the severity of the mistake. This whole cessationist belief system began to take root in the Reformation, and was popularized by Warfield in the 1800's. But history does not support it, and neither does the word.

Now that is the intellectual side of the matter.

Here is the experiential side. The gifts when used properly bring the lost in by the droves. In several instances I have had words of knowledge on the streets of the many cities of this world, and it has brought many to Jesus. Sometimes 10-50 at a time. Have you ever seen several people on the streets come to the Lord just through the preaching of the bible? Very few have. Now I am not talking about organized crusades. I am talking about walking down the street, and seeing the crowds, and you pull out your bible and preach and ask who wants Jesus. That kind of preaching. I have done it both ways. Much bigger response when the Holy Spirit backs it up with Signs and wonders!

The supernatural breaks down the resistance of many. That is why Jesus did it, and why the apostles did it. If the bible was to take the place of miracles, then why in the Western World where this line of thought is standard, is the church either getting smaller, or stagnant in its growth compared to where the gifts are in a place of honor? You ever been in a church where they have to meet 7 days a week, 24 hours a day? I have. There are several of them in Argentina. Over there the churches do not argue over this. The very few that do, are extremely small even to American churches. They stubbornly hold onto what their denomination tells them. But they are so few, as to not be worth noting.

Overseas, the whole church sees the gifts as thee major tool in winning the lost. Even the Baptist and other Cessationist churches. As I mentioned earlier, the Southern Baptist held a convention recently, and discussed what to do with the majority of missionaries who now practice the gifts. They decided not to kick them out, because they would'nt have much of a missionary program left.

So look at this problem from a whole perspective. History, experience and ecspecially the Word. All three support Signs and Wonders being needed.

[Botz]

Excellent post Scudbuddy...the gifts can cut to the chase and save weeks and months of counselling sometimes and are an exciting and challenging aspect of a persons development as a well-equipped Saint fully reliant on the Holy Ghost...as your encouraging testimony points out...who says the Believers life is boring!

I wonder if someone that taught G-ds word no longer supported an ongoing prophetic ministry in the Church(amongst other things) might be considered a false teacher...in light of some of the scriptural evidence and the personal everyday experience of many sincere Believers dedicated to seeing the Gospel preached in all the earth.

Someone made the poignant observation that it is possible for a person to be all the WORD...and to dry up. Or to be all the SPIRIT...and to blow up.

[stevehut]

the very Book from which we'll be judged at the Final Assize!

I sure hope that's a real word at the end of that sentence...

[Guest shadow2b]

-I believe its absolutely possible for true prophets to make mistakes.-The bible teaches that the gift is in subjection to the prophet. So a true prophet can hear from God yet reword it so that it becomes an error through misstake or intentional.

-A TRUE PROPHET?? REWORDS? GODS SPOKEN --REVEALED WORD & YOU CALL THIS A *TRUE* Prophet??

-WeLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL,jedi--you are absolutely RIGHT but at the moment they MAKE A MISTAKE-{prophecy out of their own heart}they are lying prophets & NO longer UNDER GODS CALLING--OR anointing---They are LIARS---{have you read Revelations lately??}-ALL LIARS HAVE THEIR PLACE IN THE LAKE OF FIRE-RESERVED FOR THEM NOW!!

-REV.21.vss.7-8-------

-He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he

-shall be my son. 

-But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,

-and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars,shall have their

-part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

-REV.22.vss.14-15------

-Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have

-right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 

-For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and

-murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

-I hope YOU read & take to heart the words in BLUE---LIARS---ARE NOT ALLOWED TO ENTER THE CITY OF GOD---MISTAKES??-go-ahead keep Promoting this erroneous doctrine!!-That IS your RIGHT---IT is also my Right to AGREE with GOD'S WORD & POST IT--REVEALING the ERRENCY of a MISTAKE prone--LYING-Prophet--Who CEASES to be GODS Prophet the MOMENT he prophecies "out of his own heart"!!--

-JEREM.5.vss.30-31-------

-A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land; 

-The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means;

-and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof? 

-How bout that??Even the *PRIESTS*--"Bear-Rule"Over GODS PEOPLE--THRU THE *LIES* of the Lying-Prophets--Guess what?? THE People{Who have listened to the

"Lying-Prophets" LOVE THE LIES!!-- Sooooo I'LL ASK YOU the Same Question GOD Asks the {Lying-Prophets--The PRIESTS that rule over "Some"of GODS PEOPLE by the Means of the LIES the Lying-Prophets falsely Prophecy--PLUS The People of GOD that "Love the Lies"}-*WHAT WILL YOU DO IN THE END THEREOF*??-

[stevehut]

Shiloh, So if we lived in a theocracy, you would stone em?

Probably not me personally, but in a theocracy, a false prophet would be put to death, according to the Torah.

According to the Torah?

Deuteronomy 17:6-7

On the testimony of two or three witnesses a man shall be put to death, but no one shall be put to death on the testimony of only one witness. The hands of the witnesses must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. You must purge the evil from among you.

Sure is convenient to have a professional executioner these days, isn't it?

[Jedi4Yahweh]

-I believe its absolutely possible for true prophets to make mistakes.-The bible teaches that the gift is in subjection to the prophet. So a true prophet can hear from God yet reword it so that it becomes an error through misstake or intentional.

-A TRUE PROPHET?? REWORDS? GODS SPOKEN --REVEALED WORD & YOU CALL THIS A *TRUE* Prophet??

-WeLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL,jedi--you are absolutely RIGHT but at the moment they MAKE A MISTAKE-{prophecy out of their own heart}they are lying prophets & NO longer UNDER GODS CALLING--OR anointing---They are LIARS---{have you read Revelations lately??}-ALL LIARS HAVE THEIR PLACE IN THE LAKE OF FIRE-RESERVED FOR THEM NOW!!

-REV.21.vss.7-8-------

-He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he

-shall be my son.

[Scudbuddy]

Botz,

We need the word and we need the Spirit. Somehow both sides of the argument have got to come to the middle. :hug:

So many use the word to constrain the work of the Holy Spirit. I have heard critics say that when people fall down because of the Holy Spirit, they must do it face forward because of the biblical accounts of saints falling forward, and sinners falling backwards. Unbelievable! :oww:

I wrote a humorous story that is in the Humor section under "Train Wrecks I have known." It is one of the last stories. It is titled "Where is that in the Bible?" (If you read these stories, please read the disclaimer before the first story. Save me in legal bills.) I try to make fun of that type of thinking. I also make fun of myself and the crazy ideas that we have about Revival, and the move of the Spirit.

I see a Spirit filled lifestyle as thee most normal thing we can do. That church in Redding that I have talked about has shown that the world is looking for the Church to be Supernatural.

If a "Seeker Sensitive" church went to the average mall or business and tried to pass out tracts in their city, security would escort them out. In Redding where God has busted loose, the malls and many businesses have given them a free reign to do whatever. And boy do they take advantage of that. They have incredible worship services in the malls and the Glory of God comes and messes people up. Nothing better than sinners falling on their knees in the middle of a business.

At bus stops they do the same. People are so affected by the Holy Spirit as they get off the bus, that the demoniacs will fall on the ground manifesting thus opening the opportunity for deliverance. (Of course they take them to a more private setting) Others come off the bus, and find uncontrollable joy causing them to laugh and laugh and laugh. And the people get saved like crazy. And that is on the street. Every service I have been to there I have seen 5 to 25 people saved. Sunday morning, sunday night, whenever. And they don't do that "Every eye closed" business. You do this public. No begging or pleading. Just "Who needs Jesus!" Sinners know there is a God when they come there. They got mugged on the streets, or saw the Spirit mugging another. You are unsafe in Redding as a sinner or demoniac.

Even Christians are unsafe. I got mugged at a Starbucks by a complete stranger. My wife and I did not know what hit us. And wow was it accurate. Some of their kids have given me words that have stopped me in my tracks and left me balling. And I am not easily impressed by the prophetic. I have been doing that since I was a teenager, and have taught Prophetic seminars around the world. I have given thousands of words. So I am at times unfortunetly somewhat too familiar to the point of hardness. These guys have softened me up considerably.

And guess what. These people are taught how to hear God. They give a word (They always start off with "I think God is saying this." This allows for error and correction.)more accurately than most big name prophets out there. That atmosphere is incredibly healthy. When they give a word, someone is listening that is older in the gift. They also tape every word given. They break it down, and give an honest assessment of the word. And if you don't make at least 3 mistakes the first year of your schooling there, they kick you out of the program because you are probaly giving those generic words that can't be wrong. "Jesus loves you, and will always be with you........." They want you to hear specifics. So these people have to spend a lot of time in prayer and fasting and humbling themselves. And the results are amazing. My wife and I would move up there in a minute, but our heart is to bring it elsewhere.

My prayer is that America becomes a dangerous place for those running from God because Gods people here "Know their God, and do exploits!"