Israel is Israel?

[Botz]

I think this may be a generalization. While I can understand animosity and suspicion on the part of some Jewish people; and by the way, they

[nebula]

How can the Lord's church be the mother of all believers when the church is made up of the believers?

It

[Guest shiloh357]

Based upon what you said, I think my response is quite honest.

I was referring to intellectual honesty.

Persecution is not only inclusive in Judaism.

Never said or implied that it was.

Gentiles are persecuted and Muslim Arabs are brutally tortured and murdered by family members for conversion to Christianity.

That is true, but it seems you are trying to refute an argument I did not raise. That is not really material to the issue I raised.

Persecution comes with the faith of Christianity no matter what race one is. It

[Guest yod]

To be fair, most edicts against jews came from rulers and there were several Popes who tried to stem the tide of hatred towards the jews in history.

But it would be a tragic injustice to deny that christians took part in the sad history of anti-semitism. That is impossible to refute because of the popularity of the Judensau

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judensau

[nikki1]

But it would be a tragic injustice to deny that christians took part in the sad history of anti-semitism. That is impossible to refute because of the popularity of the Judensau

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judensau

No one will ever convince me that the people above involved in this were ever true Christians. To even imply they were is absurd.

Blessings,

[nebula]

But these were put on churches.

Our perspective can be "they weren't true Christians," but the perspective of the Jews is still "Christians".

Sometimes the only way offense can be healed is for the innocent to take on the blame of the guilty.

[Guest yod]

But it would be a tragic injustice to deny that christians took part in the sad history of anti-semitism. That is impossible to refute because of the popularity of the Judensau

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judensau

No one will ever convince me that the people above involved in this were ever true Christians. To even imply they were is absurd.

Blessings,

.

then you are saying that Catholics and Protestants (especially Lutherans) are not Christians because at one time This was very popular in the churches of Europe

And who do you think went to those churches? Were they Muslims? Atheists? Satanists in drag? Who were all those people and how did the church survive if there were no Christians in them?

[nikki1]

Blessings,shiloh357

I was referring to intellectual honesty.

So was I. You are knit picking to start an argument where there is none by implying that there is also no way we can in full honesty and truthfulness claim that NO true Christians were involved in these things.

Never said or implied that it was.

Yet you have been ignoring this fact as if it was.

That is true, but it seems you are trying to refute an argument I did not raise. That is not really material to the issue I raised.

I think it is very relevant to the issue because you seem to give the impression that only Jewish people are rejected from within their own race and religion, and only Jewish people were persecuted by what you consider

[nikki1]

Blessings, Nebula

But these were put on churches.

But a building is not "a church".

Our perspective can be "they weren't true Christians," but the perspective of the Jews is still "Christians".

Never-the-less, it is an accurate assessment, and no one will ever convince me that this is the perspective of all Jewish people. To continue to feed this lie does not help our cause in spreading the Gospel of Christ, it hinders it IMO. I know too many Jewish people that know the difference, and it's a shame that some here don't know this.

Sometimes the only way offense can be healed is for the innocent to take on the blame of the guilty.

The risen Lord took the penalty for all our sins (you call offenses) on calvary over 2,000 years ago and by his stripes we are healed.

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isaiah 53:5

[nebula]

Sometimes the only way offense can be healed is for the innocent to take on the blame of the guilty.

The risen Lord took the penalty for all our sins (you call offenses) on calvary over 2,000 years ago and by his stripes we are healed.

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isaiah 53:5

I think you missed my point.

When someone is hurt, the last thing they need to hear is, "I'm sorry your perception is wrong."

I've had that done enough to me to know I absolutely hate it.

When reconciliation is the goal, one is better humbling themselves to the point of taking on the blame as their own and apologizing as such. Avoidance and blame shifting and justifying and denial only tend to lead to more hurt and frustration.