Temple of God

[e lansing]

[qoute]Well I personally don't believe that Matthew 24 holds any dual meaning and any fulfillment.

[nebula]

right! so how are we to take it?

Pray that we will recognize it when it comes.

Unless the Lord gives you a revelation on the matter, you will never figure it out ahead of time.

[e lansing]

right! so how are we to take it?

Pray that we will recognize it when it comes.

Unless the Lord gives you a revelation on the matter, you will never figure it out ahead of time.

Amen!!! thanks!

[nebula]

You are welcome!

[Rick-Parker]

There is nothing that you wrote i disagree with. And yor closeing statement clears up a little more for me. Do think that Matthew 24:15 has a duel meaning to it? Or is what Jesus said to be taken at face value? or does this only apply to the Jewish nation?

There are two different Greek words that are translated as "temple" in English. One word "hieron" is used by Paul when referring to an actual building made with wood and stones. The other word "naos" is used when referring to the spiritual temple of God which refers to His people.

The word "naos" is the one used in this 2 Thessalonians 2:4 verse, and therefore is NOT talking about a physical temple.The Greek word naos, used in 2 Thes. 2:4, is used 46 times in the New Testament. 45 times it's translated temple, and once it refers to a pagan shrine (Acts 19:24). It can also be used metaphorically as the physical body of a believer, like it is in 1 Cor. 3:16: "Don't you know that you are God's Temple and God's Spirit lives in you?" But the metaphorical use is by no means exclusive. The word most often refers to the physical temple building. You can tell by the context which meaning is intended.

2 Thes. 2:4 is a description of the Abomination of Desolation, the kick off event of the Great Tribulation, and the signal for Jews to flee into the mountains. I find it hard to believe that Paul intended the metaphorical use of the word in describing such a watershed event. How would the anti-Christ stand within the body of a believer (setting aside the fact that all believers to whom 1 Cor. 3:16 refers will have already disappeared) and how would that cause the Abomination of Desolation, which is the defilement of a physical Temple in Israel, as foretold in Daniel 9:27 and Matt. 24:15?

[e lansing]

There is nothing that you wrote i disagree with. And yor closeing statement clears up a little more for me. Do think that Matthew 24:15 has a duel meaning to it? Or is what Jesus said to be taken at face value? or does this only apply to the Jewish nation?

There are two different Greek words that are translated as "temple" in English. One word "hieron" is used by Paul when referring to an actual building made with wood and stones. The other word "naos" is used when referring to the spiritual temple of God which refers to His people.

The word "naos" is the one used in this 2 Thessalonians 2:4 verse, and therefore is NOT talking about a physical temple.The Greek word naos, used in 2 Thes. 2:4, is used 46 times in the New Testament. 45 times it's translated temple, and once it refers to a pagan shrine (Acts 19:24). It can also be used metaphorically as the physical body of a believer, like it is in 1 Cor. 3:16: "Don't you know that you are God's Temple and God's Spirit lives in you?" But the metaphorical use is by no means exclusive. The word most often refers to the physical temple building. You can tell by the context which meaning is intended.

2 Thes. 2:4 is a description of the Abomination of Desolation, the kick off event of the Great Tribulation, and the signal for Jews to flee into the mountains. I find it hard to believe that Paul intended the metaphorical use of the word in describing such a watershed event. How would the anti-Christ stand within the body of a believer (setting aside the fact that all believers to whom 1 Cor. 3:16 refers will have already disappeared) and how would that cause the Abomination of Desolation, which is the defilement of a physical Temple in Israel, as foretold in Daniel 9:27 and Matt. 24:15?

Thanks for the insight on the greek meanings of temple. Was the temple in Israel destroyed already when paul talked about in 2thess 2:4? Can you provide a scriptual time line for your thuoght " already disappeared"? My question stems from what Jesus said concerning Abomination event. It said "he who has eaers to hear what the spirit is saying". This cause me to wonder, is there a duel meaning here? Spiritualy speaking an Abomination that causes desolation could be happening when beleivers turn from God willfully for whatever reason and there lives end up in utter ruin. This is my opinion in terms how this event could happen to a believer. Is this the case in Matt 24, I don't think so. Is Matt 24:15 to be taken literally, I believe so. As it is in bold, has caused me to post my qusetions about the templs, and holy.

[Rick-Parker]

The Rapture and the last 7 years are only related in the sense that the former has to precede the latter. Technically, the 7 years are called Daniel

[e lansing]

The Rapture and the last 7 years are only related in the sense that the former has to precede the latter. Technically, the 7 years are called Daniel

[lekh l'kha]

Jesus said to watch for the abomination that causes desolation and was a referrence to Daniel 9:24. It said that this abomination would happen in the holy place. This holy place is it man made or not? Does god live in temples that man made today?

What's interesting about the Greek words for temple in the New Testament is that there are four Greek words referring to the temple in Jerusalem: hieron, naos, oikos ("house", as in the house of God), and hagios topos (as in holy/sacred location).

Hieron

Until the verses describing (a) the tearing of the veil; and (b) Judas throwing the 30 pices of silver back into the temple, the word hieron is used only in reference to the temple building in Jerusalem and its outer court, with one exception (which is perhaps an important exception, which I will come to in a minute).

Naos

Likewise, until the verses describing (a) the tearing of the veil; and (b) Judas throwing the 30 pieces of silver back into the temple, the word naos is only used in reference to:

1. The holy place/most holy place of the Jerusalem temple.

2. Christ's reference to His body as the temple.

After the tearing of the veil, the word naos is only used in reference to our individual bodies or the church as the temple of God, with two exceptions (if they be exceptions):

2Thes.2: 4 and Rev.11: 1-2.

Oikos ("house")

Only until the tearing of the veil, the word oikos ("house") is also used once in reference to the holy place/most holy place of the Jerusalem temple (in a verse which parallels the same verse in another gospel, which uses the word noas)

And until the tearing of the veil (but not after that), the word oikos is also used in the phrase "house of God", and it is used in reference to the holy place/most holy place. But after the tearing of the veil, the word oikos and phrase "house of God is always referring to the church, and never to the temple in Jerusalem.

After the tearing of the veil, only the word hieron is used in reference to the temple in Jerusalem, with three exceptions (if they are exceptions):

1. 2Thes2: 4

2 Rev.11: 1-2.

BUT HERE'S THE THING:

hagios topos (holy/sacred location)

After the tearing of the veil, when the unbelieving Jews accused Paul of defiling "this holy place", the Greek DOES NOT use the words naos or oikos to translate those words (because after the tearing of the veil, the Greek does not use those words to describe the Jerusalem temple).

But NEITHER does the Greek use the word hieron to translate those words (because the word hieron referred only to the temple building in Jerusalem with its outer courts, and not the holy place).

So what words does the Greek use to describe the Jews' reference to the Jerusalem temple as the "holy place" AFTER the tearing of the veil?

THE SAME WORDS used in the only exception in the gospels up until the tearing of the veil where neither hieron, nor naos, nor oikos are used in reference to the temple in Jerusalem: The words hagios topos:

"Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (Greek: hagios topos) (whoever reads, let him understand)." (Mat 24:15).

That's the same words used in Acts in reference to the Jerusalem temple AFTER the tearing of the veil when the Jews accused Paul of defiling "the holy place" in Jerusalem.

So the GREEK words used for "temple" in the New Testament DO suggest that a "temple" will be built in Jerusalem - but that it will not be regarded by God as holy - rather as an abomination - and it will be the sign that the Lord Jesus Christ is about to return.

I don't know what to make of the fact that 2Thes.2: 4 and Rev.11: 1-2 are the only exceptions to the rule that from the tearing of the veil onwards, the word naos is used only reference to our individual bodies and the church as the temple of God.

Hopefully someone can suggest a reason to me?

Lekh

[e lansing]

Jesus said to watch for the abomination that causes desolation and was a referrence to Daniel 9:24. It said that this abomination would happen in the holy place. This holy place is it man made or not? Does god live in temples that man made today?

What's interesting about the Greek words for temple in the New Testament is that there are four Greek words referring to the temple in Jerusalem: hieron, naos, oikos ("house", as in the house of God), and hagios topos (as in holy/sacred location).

Hieron

Until the verses describing (a) the tearing of the veil; and (b) Judas throwing the 30 pices of silver back into the temple, the word hieron is used only in reference to the temple building in Jerusalem and its outer court, with one exception (which is perhaps an important exception, which I will come to in a minute).

Naos

Likewise, until the verses describing (a) the tearing of the veil; and (b) Judas throwing the 30 pieces of silver back into the temple, the word naos is only used in reference to:

1. The holy place/most holy place of the Jerusalem temple.

2. Christ's reference to His body as the temple.

After the tearing of the veil, the word naos is only used in reference to our individual bodies or the church as the temple of God, with two exceptions (if they be exceptions):

2Thes.2: 4 and Rev.11: 1-2.

Oikos ("house")

Only until the tearing of the veil, the word oikos ("house") is also used once in reference to the holy place/most holy place of the Jerusalem temple (in a verse which parallels the same verse in another gospel, which uses the word noas)

And until the tearing of the veil (but not after that), the word oikos is also used in the phrase "house of God", and it is used in reference to the holy place/most holy place. But after the tearing of the veil, the word oikos and phrase "house of God is always referring to the church, and never to the temple in Jerusalem.

After the tearing of the veil, only the word hieron is used in reference to the temple in Jerusalem, with three exceptions (if they are exceptions):

1. 2Thes2: 4

2 Rev.11: 1-2.

BUT HERE'S THE THING:

hagios topos (holy/sacred location)

After the tearing of the veil, when the unbelieving Jews accused Paul of defiling "this holy place", the Greek DOES NOT use the words naos or oikos to translate those words (because after the tearing of the veil, the Greek does not use those words to describe the Jerusalem temple).

But NEITHER does the Greek use the word hieron to translate those words (because the word hieron referred only to the temple building in Jerusalem with its outer courts, and not the holy place).

So what words does the Greek use to describe the Jews' reference to the Jerusalem temple as the "holy place" AFTER the tearing of the veil?

THE SAME WORDS used in the only exception in the gospels up until the tearing of the veil where neither hieron, nor naos, nor oikos are used in reference to the temple in Jerusalem: The words hagios topos:

"Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (Greek: hagios topos) (whoever reads, let him understand)." (Mat 24:15).

That's the same words used in Acts in reference to the Jerusalem temple AFTER the tearing of the veil when the Jews accused Paul of defiling "the holy place" in Jerusalem.

So the GREEK words used for "temple" in the New Testament DO suggest that a "temple" will be built in Jerusalem - but that it will not be regarded by God as holy - rather as an abomination - and it will be the sign that the Lord Jesus Christ is about to return.

I don't know what to make of the fact that 2Thes.2: 4 and Rev.11: 1-2 are the only exceptions to the rule that from the tearing of the veil onwards, the word naos is used only reference to our individual bodies and the church as the temple of God.

Hopefully someone can suggest a reason to me?

Lekh

Lekh, this is very intresting. Its my opinion that 2thess2:4 and rev 11:12 are prophectic and have not yet been fulfilled, and should be taken literaly. So technicaly it would be before the tearing of the veil. In Dan 9:25 is when it was given in terms of a later temple, prince to come[man of lawlessness], and the event of the abomination that cause desolation. What say you?