Moses and Elijah - The transfiguration

[Openly Curious]

'nebula' date='Jan 30 2010,

'Openly Curious' post='1497653' date='Jan 30 2010,

Maybe you could give some of your thoughts about Moses and what he is doing right now.

I would be interested in what your thoughts are.

I am thinking that it is not for us to worry about what the saints who have gone before are doing.

I don't think those who are sharing their opinions in this thread are worried I know I'm certainly not worried. Just because I'm having a conversation about things I want feel guilty in discussing topics as that is the way we learn.

[Openly Curious]

'mizzdy' date='Jan 30 2010,'Openly Curious' post='1497653' date='Jan 30 2010,'nebula' date='Jan 30 2010,

'Openly Curious' post='1497640' date='Jan 30 2010, As far as the body, soul, and spirit of Moses was concerned, he died a physical death and was buried in the earth by the Lord. Obviously, the Lord had a purpose for the body of Moses. Moses lived and died and was buried and resurrected.

Aren't you stretching your imagination a bit there?

If his body was resurrected, what did he do afterward? And why?

My train of thought is that when Jesus resurrected all those who were held captive by Satan came up with Jesus as he released all those captive. Many of those who were resurrected were seen and their were witness. I believe Moses was one of those that were resurrected along with Abraham and Lazuras and along with so many others when Jesus came up out of that tomb as death could not hold him. But this is where I speak from when I say, resurrected. Moses after being resurrected went or ascended up to heaven with so many of the other saints. After this I do not even claim to know what Moses is doing right now.

Maybe you could give some of your thoughts about Moses and what he is doing right now.

I would be interested in what your thoughts are.

Yeshua would have to already been crucified for Moses to have been resurrected right? When we read of the transfiguration it was before He was crucified so Moses nor anyone else could have been resurrected correct?

So that could not have been Moses in his resurrected body.

Hey mizzdy,

I think you misunderstood me. I was not saying that I believe Moses had a resurrected body at his meeting with Jesus and Elijah. I was saying that it was possible that Moses was among the resurrected saints that were seen walking around after Jesus was raised from the dead. It said that they seen the saints of old.

something you might want to read

1 Corinthians 15:6

Matthew 27:52-53

Hebrews 11:35

1 Kings 17:22..................Blessings

[nebula]

My train of thought is that when Jesus resurrected all those who were held captive by Satan came up with Jesus as he released all those captive. Many of those who were resurrected were seen and their were witness. I believe Moses was one of those that were resurrected along with Abraham and Lazuras and along with so many others when Jesus came up out of that tomb as death could not hold him. But this is where I speak from when I say, resurrected. Moses after being resurrected went or ascended up to heaven with so many of the other saints. After this I do not even claim to know what Moses is doing right now.

OK.

Well, first of all the people were resurrected upon Jesus' death, not His resurrection.

And I'm not sure how Moses' body potentially being resurrected at this point relates to his appearing when Jesus was transfigured some time before the resurrection event.

And Lazerus was resurrected 4 days after his death, so why did you include him in this list?

Maybe you could give some of your thoughts about Moses and what he is doing right now.

I would be interested in what your thoughts are.

Right now? Other than having the time of his life, I haven't a clue.

[~Clay]

Maybe you could give some of your thoughts about Moses and what he is doing right now.

I would be interested in what your thoughts are.

I am thinking that it is not for us to worry about what the saints who have gone before are doing.

[~candice~]

Maybe you could give some of your thoughts about Moses and what he is doing right now.

I would be interested in what your thoughts are.

I am thinking that it is not for us to worry about what the saints who have gone before are doing.

I'm not sure I agree here. There is nothing wrong with studying (not worrying!) about the process of life, death and resurrection, and how the saints like Moses fit into this.

[~Clay]

It is also my current understanding that Moses and Elijah returned to earth with resurrected bodies and their spirit. Kinda confusing to me because I thought that we got our resurrected bodies at the rapture / second coming. I don't know greek well enough to pull the transfiguration verses apart and demonstrate that they did return bodily, but most commentators seem to suggest that this is the case.

Gets even more interesting if you believe they are the two witnesses at the end .

Moses and Elijah are throwing out my "timeline" of what happens to us after death, can I take this as a special exemption, or is there an error in my understanding?

Blessings

Andy

As far as time-line, it seems pretty clear. Jesus was the first to experience "The Resurrection" - as in the one-time resurrection of the dead where our weak, mortal, natural, perishable bodies are raised as strong, immortal, spiritual, imperishable ones. This is different than someone who was dead being returned to life (like Elisha raising the son of the Shunammite woman, or Jesus raising the daughter of Jarius).

Paul wrote to the Church at Corinth that in Adam, all men die, but in Christ, all men "will be made alive" (future tense). And this, in order. Christ, the first, and after Christ, those who are His, at His coming. So the two figures seen on the mountain with Jesus could not have been in their "resurrected bodies" becuase Jesus is the first to get one (and He hadn't yet), and the rest of us have to wait until the still-future resurrection of the Dead (or at least the "First Resurrection" - Rev 20:6).

[~candice~]

It is also my current understanding that Moses and Elijah returned to earth with resurrected bodies and their spirit. Kinda confusing to me because I thought that we got our resurrected bodies at the rapture / second coming. I don't know greek well enough to pull the transfiguration verses apart and demonstrate that they did return bodily, but most commentators seem to suggest that this is the case.

Gets even more interesting if you believe they are the two witnesses at the end .

Moses and Elijah are throwing out my "timeline" of what happens to us after death, can I take this as a special exemption, or is there an error in my understanding?

Blessings

Andy

As far as time-line, it seems pretty clear. Jesus was the first to experience "The Resurrection" - as in the one-time resurrection of the dead where our weak, mortal, natural, perishable bodies are raised as strong, immortal, spiritual, imperishable ones. This is different than someone who was dead being returned to life (like Elisha raising the son of the Shunammite woman, or Jesus raising the daughter of Jarius).

Paul wrote to the Church at Corinth that in Adam, all men die, but in Christ, all men "will be made alive" (future tense). And this, in order. Christ, the first, and after Christ, those who are His, at His coming. So the two figures seen on the mountain with Jesus could not have been in their "resurrected bodies" becuase Jesus is the first to get one (and He hadn't yet), and the rest of us have to wait until the still-future resurrection of the Dead (or at least the "First Resurrection" - Rev 20:6).

OK, so was Moses risen from the dead? Or just an apparition?

[Openly Curious]

name='nebula' date='Jan 31 2010, 12:05 AM' post='1498152'

name='Openly Curious' post='1498040' date='Jan 30 2010,

OC--

My train of thought is that when Jesus resurrected all those who were held captive by Satan came up with Jesus as he released all those captive. Many of those who were resurrected were seen and their were witness. I believe Moses was one of those that were resurrected along with Abraham and Lazuras and along with so many others when Jesus came up out of that tomb as death could not hold him. But this is where I speak from when I say, resurrected. Moses after being resurrected went or ascended up to heaven with so many of the other saints. After this I do not even claim to know what Moses is doing right now.

Nebula--

OK.

Well, first of all the people were resurrected upon Jesus' death, not His resurrection.

OC--I disagree, that the people were resurrected "At" the death of Jesus "Not" His resurrection. What scriptural reference do you have to support what you've said.

Matthew 27:52-53--And the graves were opened and many bodies of the saints which slept arose. And came out of the graves "After" His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Only after Jesus resurretion did these resurrected saints enter Jerusalem. At the time of death the graves of the saints of old were opened.

Nebula--

And I'm not sure how Moses' body potentially being resurrected at this point relates to his appearing when Jesus was transfigured some time before the resurrection event.

OC--There is no reason that would hinder Moses from appearing at the transfiguration even though he wasn't reunited with his body yet. Moses did appear in spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:6,8--Therefore we are always confident, knowing that whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord. vs.8) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Nebula--

And Lazerus was resurrected 4 days after his death, so why did you include him in this list?

Maybe it was a different Lazarus than the one who was raised from the dead such as the one in ........

Luke 16:19-26--There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: vs.20) And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, vs.21) And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores, vs.22) And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels unto Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; vs.23) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus his bosom. vs.24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. vs.25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. vs.26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

The reason that I did mention Lazarus in these scripture is because it shows to us both paradise where the righteous went too when they died. It shows to us also hell and it's torments to all the unrighteous people when they die.

The picture shows the beggar Lazarus being comforted in Abraham bosom. Abraham was both before Moses and Elijah. But to me I thought it was interesting that father Abraham was shown to us and if Abraham was being held in paradise it stands to reason that all the saints before him and after him went to paradise also where their spirits are held captive.

But for some reason others cannot see the great men and women of God being held captive in paradise until Christ came and defeated death, hell and the grave.

[nebula]

Nebula--

OK.

Well, first of all the people were resurrected upon Jesus' death, not His resurrection.

I disagree, that the people were resurrected "At" the death of Jesus "Not" His resurrection. What scriptural reference do you have to support what you've said.

Matthew 27:52-53--And the graves were opened and many bodies of the saints which slept arose. And came out of the graves "After" His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Only after Jesus resurretion did these resurrected saints enter Jerusalem. At the time of death the graves of the saints of old were opened.

50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. 51 And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom ; and the earth shook and the rocks were split. 52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised ; 53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. 54 Now the centurion, and those who were with him keeping guard over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things that were happening, became very frightened and said, "Truly this was the Son of God !"

OK, I see what you were saying, but then vs. 54 is a bit confusing.

Nebula--And I'm not sure how Moses' body potentially being resurrected at this point relates to his appearing when Jesus was transfigured some time before the resurrection event.

There is no reason that would hinder Moses from appearing at the transfiguration even though he wasn't reunited with his body yet. Moses did appear in spirit.

I agree - but that still doesn't relate the two together. If Moses' body was resurrected later, what does this have to do with the transfiguration?

Nebula--

And Lazerus was resurrected 4 days after his death, so why did you include him in this list?

Maybe it was a different Lazarus than the one who was raised from the dead such as the one in ........

It wasn't clarified that the Lazerus of the parable was the one referred to. My apologies.

But for some reason others cannot see the great men and women of God being held captive in paradise until Christ came and defeated death, hell and the grave.

That was the point? OK, but what does this have to do with the Transfiguration?

[nebula]

OC -

The Bible doesn't say who was resurrected by name. To say Moses was resurrected is speculation. So please do not state is as fact, all raight?

And actually, if a man came out of the ground on a mountain east of the Jordan River, came across into Israel, and told the people, "I am Moses," what do you suppose there reaction would be?

Do you not suppose it would be the talk of the town?

In any event, it is likely that the Father sent Moses and Elijah to speak with Jesus because Moses represents the Law (the Torah) and Elijah represents the Prophets. "The Law and the Prophets" is a common phrase in Hebrew to represent the the word and will of the Lord to the people.