Marriage...Abuse

[FaithfulFollower]

Those are some very interesting points that have been made about abuse, and how it too could be seen as unfaithfulness to one's significant other. Some excellent points. Thank you all so much for your insight on this.

With Love In Christ,

Danielle

[Guest Sallyann]

I feel the Lord intends us to stay married. I agree with the fact that unfaithfulness can be interpreted in several ways. Abuse is one.

But when I say He intends us to stay married, I mean when the marriage is in Christ. Many are not.

This includes my first marriage, AND my second marriage. These were definitely marriages not made with God's blessings.

But it is God's awesome mercy, grace and forgiveness that is the key. The fact that he has completely forgotten my past ( even if I can't), is proof that involvment in an abusive situation does not decrease His love for us. I now have a wonderful Christian husband, and this marriage IS in Christ.

I think Christ weeps when we abuse or suffer abuse. It is not what He meant for us in a marriage, but He can forgive us for leaving one.

[irishcowboy]

there are many forms of "unfaithfulness"

if a person is abusive, that is being unfaithful to that person,

if a person is cheating on their spouse, that is being unfaithful,

if a person withholds themselves from their spouse ( other then what is directed for prayer and fasting and for certain other times mutually agreed upon, and where they go back together ) that would also be unfaithfulness,

if a person down talks their spouse, cuts them down, belittles them either infront of them or behind their backs, that is unfaithfulness,

if a person is slapping their spouse around, either with fist, open hand, bats, clubs, whips, chains, or any other object, that would also be unfaithfulness,

if a person takes their spouse against the spouses wishes, would also be unfaithfulness,

there are many many things that are and can be considered unfaithfulness, not just adultry....

mike

[irishcowboy]

I would like to express a thought on the Word Divorce.

Is divorce a legal document allowing a woman and a man to part company?

or Is divorce a legal document that allows both parties to re-marry ?

Does one need a divorce to leave an abusing partner?

To me the primary reason for divorce is to give those married the right to marry another legally. If there is abuse like wife bashing there is no need for divorce but there is a need for separation.

To me violence is a reason for separation but it is not a reason for divorce.

All Praise The Ancient of Days

sorry, but if one spouse is constantly beating the other, totally abusing the other, and they just separate, there will always be contact, thru income tax, thru children thru other things that will still allow the one spouse legal contact and legal rights to have contact with the abused spouse......

even when restraining orders are put into effect, they are still married and still have certain bonds that keep them together, and the abuse still remains.....

a person that is an abuser is not of God, and there for they could ( some do ) consider them already dead ( spiritually dead )......

an abusive situation is not a good thing at all.....

*****thoughts*****

we take children from parents when the parent spanks the child, but yet when one spouse beats the other, they are told to remain together.......

the logic of it all..... sounds good to me......

no matter what happens, then you must remain together forever..... until one of you dies...... your children, however, if you spank them, or discipline them in a fassion i do not agree with, will be taken from you and your parental rights will be terminated.....

**********

dont get me wrong on this, seems like we tend to get things a bit out of wack....

we have children taken from the house due to discipline, but yet we tell people being abused to suck it up and move on with life......

how many divorces have taken place in your church?????

how many of the couples have actually been helped out by your church????

how many tryed to reconcile???

how many of the people have been visited by members of the church, before the divorce papers were filed? after they were filed and before the court date? after the initial court date and the finalization of the divorce? and even after the divorce its self???

most people in the church, will take the side of one of the spouses or the other, totally allienating the other spouse........

wonderful support the church body has for those in need of help.... thanks....

*************

prior to my divorce, I stopped going to the church that my ex and i was in, for the support was not there..... she had the support, i was being cut down, lied about, and made to look as a total jerk among the rest of the congregation.... I was seeking counseling, she was not..... i started in another church....... it was 4 months before anyone ran me down to find out why i had stopped going to that church, and that was the pastor, and he was the only one concerned about me, but he was moving on to another church....... two months later the pastors wife saw me in passsing and asked, but other then that, i still have had no other visitors from that church.....

when i filed, i became the total dirtbag of society with the members of that church..

my ex took everything she wanted and stuff she didnt want ( threw the stuff she didnt want away....literally into the dumpster ) and the church got her all kinds of new stuff..... she took the microwave, adn the church gave her anew one, and the one she took went in the trash, i went diggin, and it was busted up so could not be used.... they gave her all kinds of things to help her back on her feet, i got all the bills, all 31,000 dollars worth of them, and had to place furnature back into the house......

where is the support???? seems either none at all when really needed, then if there is some it is all one way support..... nothing to help people to stay together, but they condemned if they dont........

that 31,000 in debt??? gone...... done away with...... why? cause i have control of the spending, she dont.... she is not here to spend it or purchase things under my name again...... the house? furnished again, with usable furnature..... how? I got things situated and paid off instead of having to hunt for hidden bills, i get the mail and pay them.....( yea, after she was gone, found bills that had come in and was hidden to keep me from knowing about them..... )

why are people so hard on some one that is divorced????? tell me.......

why not come down on a murderer as hard?

or a murderer by proxie..... ( drug dealer ).....

they can take jobs and positions in the church....

when was the last time you used the Lords name in vain, and i dont just mean as a swear word or in conjunction with a swear word.... just using His name in ways not ment to be used.........

a sin, is a sin, is a sin.....

after many years of fighting to keep a marriage together, with out aid from others and against some one that is trying to tear it apart, or against one that is being abusive, why is divorce such a terrrible thing?

you tell me.....

come now...

tell me.....

who is more rightous???

[FaithfulFollower]

Mr&Mrs. Mike Irish,

I am deeply pained to hear of your experiences with the church on account of divorce. In posting this I never meant to ruffle anyone's feathers the wrong way, I was merely seeking biblical answers. To answer one or two of your questions I have here a passage or two.

Why is divorce such a terrrible thing? In the bible in the chapter of Matthew it explains why divorce is often considered a sin.

Matthew 5:32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for unfaithfulness causes her to be an adultress, and anyone who marries the woman comits adultry.

As to why you had no support...I truly wish I knew the answer. Though I will not be the first to say that even as Christians, we all fall short of the glory of God.

None of us are without fault or sin. However, should we only turn to him and seek his face he will forgive us of all sin.

Romans 3:22-23 We are made right in God's sight when we trust in Jesus Christ to take away all our sins. And we all can be saved in this way, no matter who we are or what we have done. For all have sinned; all fall short of God's glorious standard.

Many a time as brothers and sisters in Christ, we have judged when it is not our place to do so. A wise man once told me. "Love the sinner, but not the sin." This is something I truly do feel that all of us should remember and practice.

With Love In Christ,

Danielle

Edited August 4, 2004 by FaithfulFollower

[irishcowboy]

I understand as to some of the why's that divorce is wrong.....

as for upsetting me, no, you didnt, just that too many people come down on divorce harder then anyother deed....

divorce is wrong cause it hurts everyone attached to the two people that are getting divorced..... children usually end up gettng the raw end of the deal, and a good number of times are used even after the divorce to try and get back at the other spouse....... playing mind games with the children......

people forget that a lie, also hurts everyone that is attached to the person that lies, but yet, a liar is not treated the same way a person that is divorced is...

a thief also hurts all that are attached to them, the victims and the family of the thief, but yet a thief is treated with more dignity then a devorcee....

a person that has killed some one, while on drugs, well, they again, touch many lives, but yet are treated with more dignity when they say they are sorry.....

there are only a few fellowships that will allow a devorcee to become a deacon, elder, teacher, pastor..... but yet almost all will let one of the above become one....

even a prostitute has a better welcome then a devorcee....

i am waiting for an answer that is good.... about the way devorcee's are treated, are they not also children of God.....

thats all, i would like to see an answer as to why the differance in treatment and rules..... so far no one has come up with any that have any weight to them....

I, personally try to treat all the same, i know i am not perfect, but I do earnestly try......

mike

[cymba22]

adstar...sorry i have only just got as far as getting to this thread...

Hello cymba 

I

[Guest heavenbound4u]

I think that divorce should not be considered a sin at all. Its more of a unpleasent situation. I have reasons to say this so I will explain. Consider this, if God provides the means of a divorce is it a sin?

My mother was trapped in an abusive relationship for thirteen years with her children. She endured years of verbal and physical abuse in which she prayed on her knees every night for God to heal her marriage or make my father get help. Thirteen years of praying and my mom was sure one day he would answer her prayer and make her marriage right.

Well he answered her prayer but in a cimpletely opposite way. He provided my mother a day time and plan to escape and gain custody of her children. The key thing to remember was that my mom did not want a divorce but God did. My dad never used to leave her alone and one day God miraculousl provided a situation that made him leave and he told my mm to get up and start walking towards the city( we lived out of town at the time). In any normal circumstance my dad would have gone cyco on my mother after he found her but through divine intervention he picked her up and calmly drove her to the city to her parents house.

Later by court order with temporary custody of us kids she went to pick us up and her personal belongings and for some odd reason an old broken washer in the yard was brang along. when she looked inside it had my dads drug box! Once again God had provided, now she had proof enough to gain full custody of us kids so we would be safe. Without God she would be there still, but God wanted my mom to get out of a dangerous sitution with her kids and had provided the means where there had been none. So in certain situations maybe divorce is ok.

[FaithfulFollower]

Trustseek makes a fairly valid point though I may not agree with it completelly. However, it is written within the word that a man is to love his wife as he does his own body. Abuse in any way, shape, or form is a breaking of that and in a sense proves that his love is not true to himself but to his wife, and most importantly to the Lord. So in a sense this would be very much a case of unfaithfulness. This is just my opinion on the matter.

With Love In Christ,

Danielle

[Guest yod]

Hey Danielle,

I only read your last post in this entire thread. Not sure if this has been said or not yet. Forgive my impatience?

any man that would hit a woman is a coward. Period.

God never intended for any person to be subject to victimization from another regardless of gender, age, race...whatever.

A woman has every RESPONSIBILITY BEFORE GOD to make her man accountable to her and to the laws of the land whether "he" likes it or not.

She can also decide to forgive him if she wants to....AFTER he has been made to understand that he ain't gonna get away it even ONCE more.