baptism

[evetsegap]

I think that our salvation will only be complete when we have lived our lives in accordance with the teachings of Christ

Salvation is already complete. Jesus paid it all. It has nothing to do with how we live our lives except that our lives are a reflection of the salvation we have received. We can do nothing to add completeness to what Jesus has already provided.

Hebrews 12:14, says we must also live holy lives.

"Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord."

In Matthew 10:22 Jesus said we must endure to the end.

All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

James 2:14 says we must have the kind of faith that causes us to have good works in our lives.

What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?

We can only be righteous before God if we have been washed in the Blood of the Lamb and only if we live our life in obedience. Jesus said those who love me, obey me.

[Fez]

OK first of all I have been looking for a better church life and have been not very succesfull in finding a church recently, anyway I have been going to a bible study with some friends of mine, who realy seem like great people. Tonight the question was raised about baptism being the completion of our salvation. Since many times in the bible people were baptized right after yhey accepted Christ. I totally disagread and felt like an outcast but I had to speak up on this matter. I believe that salvation comes when we accept Jesus, then we must be baptized as a sighn of new life in Christ.

So I was wondering what people here think?

Hi,

Just a thought! Most of the time we are christened by our parents and so we are to young at this point to accecpt christ ourselves, it is only when we make the choice ourselves when we are older that we affirm our faith in jesus and so undergo a "confirmation".

I think that our salvation will only be complete when we have lived our lives in accordance with the teachings of Christ

Chris

Hi Chris, I agree with Shiloh, but would like to add that sanctification is a different matter, and I believe we work towards it during our walk. We will never achieve complete sanctification, being the sinners we are, but should strive towards it daily

[evetsegap]

God is the same the covenant is not. The thief on the cross died under the old covenant, and it does not matter if it was only three days before the start of the old covenant.

The Thief died under the New Covenant. He died AFTER Jesus said, "it is finished." The New Covenant was cut in the blood of Jesus. The Old Covenant system was finished in the death of Jesus.

Furthermore, if baptism were required for salvation under the NT, there would be an OT type or shadow to indicate such a change. There would have been an OT prophetic word to that end. All New Testament as OT doctrinal counterparts. So, any doctrine that demands baptism as necessary for salvation in the New Covenant would have to have an Old Testament counterpart.

No such counterpart exists for the assertion that baptism is required for salvation.

We are saved by the death AND resurrection of Christ. Death was not defeated till Jesus was resurrected. The New Covenant would not exist if Jesus had not been raised from the dead.

Romans 4:25

He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

Furthermore, if baptism were required for salvation under the NT, there would be an OT type or shadow to indicate such a change. There would have been an OT prophetic word to that end. All New Testament as OT doctrinal counterparts. So, any doctrine that demands baptism as necessary for salvation in the New Covenant would have to have an Old Testament counterpart.

That has already been addressed. Read 1st Peter or read this thread.

Are you we do not need to be obedient to Jesus or scripture,(scripture says be baptized) that we are saved even if we live in rebellion to Jesus?

[evetsegap]

Are we to believe that the person who accepts Christ as their personal savior but doesn't decide to get baptized until 2 months later is not saved? What if they were to die the day before they were to be baptized? Are they not saved? Or are they saved and baptism an act of obedience to a command of the Lord as an outward demonstration to the world that you are His.

We all know that Jesus is just and righteous. If a person has no opportunity to be baptized then He knows their hearts, don't you think? But, you do bring up a good point, "person who accepts Christ as their personal savior but doesn't decide to get baptized until 2 months later is not saved." Only Jesus can know if that person was like the foolish virgins or not. (Matthew 25)

[evetsegap]

Baptism is not the completion, but part of the beginning. We are sanctified all through our walk in Him. The only end date is when we die.

[evetsegap]

Grace to you,

Evetsegap,

Would your logic and reasoning on the matter then lead you to conclude that there are two classes of believer. Old Testament Saint and New Testament Saint? Is their standing different before God?

Peace,

Dave

There are only differing covenants and differences in what is believed in.

No person, in the older covenant was told "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved"

All of those who believe in Jesus and who have (or had) Biblical faith have the same standing before God.

Grace to you,

So Abraham's standing before God is different than ours? In what way, can you explain?

I believe that Jseus Himself that we should believe God that we should put Faith in His Word and that His Word was this revelation that Christ isGod. I also believe that Patriarchs like Abraham believd God and were looking forward to the day of the Messiah, even Moses said as much.

Joh

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Evetsegap,

Would your logic and reasoning on the matter then lead you to conclude that there are two classes of believer. Old Testament Saint and New Testament Saint? Is their standing different before God?

Peace,

Dave

There are only differing covenants and differences in what is believed in.

No person, in the older covenant was told "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved"

All of those who believe in Jesus and who have (or had) Biblical faith have the same standing before God.

Grace to you,

So Abraham's standing before God is different than ours? In what way, can you explain?

I believe that Jseus Himself that we should believe God that we should put Faith in His Word and that His Word was this revelation that Christ isGod. I also believe that Patriarchs like Abraham believd God and were looking forward to the day of the Messiah, even Moses said as much.

Joh

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Evetsegap.

We all know that Jesus is just and righteous. If a person has no opportunity to be baptized then He knows their hearts, don't you think? But, you do bring up a good point, "person who accepts Christ as their personal savior but doesn't decide to get baptized until 2 months later is not saved." Only Jesus can know if that person was like the foolish virgins or not. (Matthew 25)

How then can we believe God when He say's believe on the name of Jesus and you will be saved?

Ro

[evetsegap]

Grace to you,

Evetsegap,

Would your logic and reasoning on the matter then lead you to conclude that there are two classes of believer. Old Testament Saint and New Testament Saint? Is their standing different before God?

Peace,

Dave

There are only differing covenants and differences in what is believed in.

No person, in the older covenant was told "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved"

All of those who believe in Jesus and who have (or had) Biblical faith have the same standing before God.

Grace to you,

So Abraham's standing before God is different than ours? In what way, can you explain?

I believe that Jseus Himself that we should believe God that we should put Faith in His Word and that His Word was this revelation that Christ isGod. I also believe that Patriarchs like Abraham believd God and were looking forward to the day of the Messiah, even Moses said as much.

Joh

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Evetsegap,

Would your logic and reasoning on the matter then lead you to conclude that there are two classes of believer. Old Testament Saint and New Testament Saint? Is their standing different before God?

Peace,

Dave

There are only differing covenants and differences in what is believed in.

No person, in the older covenant was told "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved"

All of those who believe in Jesus and who have (or had) Biblical faith have the same standing before God.

Grace to you,

So Abraham's standing before God is different than ours? In what way, can you explain?

I believe that Jseus Himself that we should believe God that we should put Faith in His Word and that His Word was this revelation that Christ isGod. I also believe that Patriarchs like Abraham believd God and were looking forward to the day of the Messiah, even Moses said as much.

Joh