meaning of submit

[Guest LadyC]

wow, this is the end times, maybe you should have sent that to butero through a private message. it really is derailing this thread and detracting from the discussion that is very important to the person who started the thread and needs direction.

besides, it makes you look like you think butero only first learned about Jesus five minutes ago or something LOL. you may not agree with everything he says, heck, i don't either... but he's not still wet behind the ears.

[eagleswings]

DC, I'm sure you will get some great scriptural advice here. I have some to offer but I think I sometimes offend rather than actually help.

I went to a marriage conference just recently and one of the women said:

"Submission is ducking down and getting out of the way so God can punch my husband!"

I hope that cheerd you up

That is the truth.....we should be the ones who submit first, being humble and full of humility as Jesus was.....when we honor God and submit unto our husbands as unto the Lord like the bible says too....giving him his due reverence and respect....then.....Yes The Lord will move upon your husband and the Lord will change him in due time....be patient....it could take time or it could almost happen overnight...one thing is certainly clear....He will be dealt with...The Word of God is unfailing.....I can testify to this as I have went thur it allready and on the other side , Praise the Lord God Allmighty in the highest...because I am soooooooo stubborn it took ten, painstaking long years for me to finally fall on my face before God in utter defeat cry and submit unto his way totally....awwww sweet sweet freedom and beautiful change in husband right before my eyes......love ya in Jesus....be encouraged, allow God to move first in YOU then in your husband and circumstance.......

[eagleswings]

Biblical submission is love based. Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments.

In a strict authoritive sense, he is correct, but in spirit and in practice, he is misunderstanding what the bible says.

All husbands are going to give an account for how they led their wives and children, and the merciful obtain mercy.

A biblical family model is not a democracy. The man makes the final decisions. A wise man heeds council, a foolish man doesn't. If he is resistant to your council, pray for him, and God will open his heart and understanding. That does not make you the boss, but you have a very important role to play.

God knew it was not good for man to be alone. He needs you, more than he knows. I am a husband, I know that I need my wife. However, I quickly get resistant when she begins ordering me as she is, of course, used to doing concerning the children. Your role is helpmate, HELP him.

I am a world class idiot without God's help, which he sends to me most of the time via my wife, as her role is to be a channel for my help. I still am responsible for making the decision, but an informed decision is much better than a bull headed ignorant decision.

True biblical submission makes demands on the one submitted to by way of a gentle obedience and sweet spirit. A soft answer breaks the bones. As you snuggle up beside him in every way, you will allow him to be a better man, to do better, and to choose better.

As you love him when he is being unattractively brutish, your love will build in him confidence that he can always rely on you, and he needs that understanding most of all, if he is to fulfill his duties as a father and a husband in a true loving way.

WOW amen how beautiful and honest this is and full of Godly wisdom...I see the Lord has worked in your heart.....how nice to get a mans point of view...to bad you don't know him to fellowship with him....as iron sharpeneth iron.......

[eagleswings]

Butero,

I understand that you are being careful about what you believe, simply consider the possibility that what we have been taught is faulty.

Do not believe what a person tells you to believe, or even what they SUGGEST you believe (decide for yourself what makes sense to YOU and believe what YOU feel is the right thing for YOU to believe, in other words, THINK FOR your"SELF").

God wants a relationship with the REAL YOU (SELF). He cautions us against "SELF abasement".....

Colossians 2:18

"Let no one disqualify you, insisting on self-abasement".

In Hebrew, the words "Jehovah" and "Elohim" are PLURAL (referring to 'the gods', the Israelites called God 'THE JEHOVAH OF ALL jehovahs'). The Father's true name (His "forever" name) is "I am who I am"....

Exodus 3:14

"God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM".

In the next verse God says.....

"this is my name for ever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations".

"I am who I am" is the one who sent His son to purify our flesh (and His Holy Spirit will purify our conscience).

You might not be ready to believe that we have been taught many LIES, but at least you should be ready to believe that the teachings that we have received in the CHURCH OF MAN are FAULTY/inferior and incomplete (to say the least).....or else "let me know" how you refute everything I have written so far (if you are prepared to disagree).

You might never have heard the word "PURIFY" used in place of "salvation".

Hebrews uses the word "purify" to explain....

salvation of the flesh,

AND

salvation of the conscience.

I'm not trying to invent a new type of theology, but how else would you explain these verses?...let me know...

Titus 2:14

"redeem us from all iniquity and to purify for himself a people".

The blood sacrifice of Jesus could not make perfect the CONSCIENCE of the worshipper (just like sacrifices/offerings in the old covenant....

Hebrews 9:9

"which cannot perfect the conscience of the worshiper".

...that is why God's eternal spirit (His holy spirit) was given to us (to teach us to do what is right so that our conscience will be clear when we are doing what is right).....

Hebrews 9:14

"purify your conscience".

Yes there are "better things that belong to salvation"......

Hebrews 6:9

"better things that belong to salvation".

Everyone on earth has salvation available to them.....

Luke 3:6

"and all flesh shall see the salvation of God".

...we don't have to pursue salvation itself, salvation has been done, accomplished, and finished. It is ETERNAL LIFE (the "guarantee") that we need to strive for.....

2 Corinthians 5:5

"He who has PREPARED us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a GUARANTEE".

When we learn from God's holy spirit, we are being PREPARED to receive an INHERITANCE of ETERNAL LIFE.

I don't know how experienced a Christian you are (me, 23 years), but where have you ever heard about being "PREPARED" for "INHERITANCE until you receive possession of it"? (and everything else I've written,..."doctrine of Christ", etc.).

How about the "law of liberty"?..........the "PERFECT LAW", James 1:25.

How about the abolition of the law of commandments and all the rules/ordinances?

Ephesians 2:15

"by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances".

James 2:12

"So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty"....

.........this is NOT AN OPTION that you can decide not to do, this is a MANDATE (command if you will).

By now, you've got to be thinking that if I am a "false prophet" (I must be a very cunning one to make any of this up), but then, I wouldn't point out that there are no more "prophets", would I?

There are no more genuine "prophets" at all........

Hebrews 1:1 and 2

"In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son".

Of course, you CAN think I'm insane, deluded, or demonic and trying to mislead you, but then it is also your responsibility to argue AGAINST everything I've written so that you can protect everybody else from being misled (and I would thank you to "let me know" so I won't be misled).

The word "bible" is not found in scripture. "BIBLE" is a FLESHLY word. It is simply MAN'S designation for scripture (it is not a Godly word for scripture.

What I did say is that scripture (which is "the doctrine of Christ") is the INTRODUCTION to a proper Godly devotion, but AFTER being trained to renounce irreligion and worldly passions, we should 'graduate' (move on to a higher class of teaching...."solid food" instead of "milk")....

Titus 2:12

"training us to renounce irreligion and worldly passions".

I have no wish to 'PERSUADE' anyone to beleive anything, but if they are WILLING to understand, I can be 'CONVINCING' (there is a difference).

There are some things that Christians aren't too sure of (thanks to the confused teachings in the church of man). THE BIBLE IS NOT OUR FOUNDATION (Christianity better get that straight). We have ONE foundation......JESUS (remember Him?.... He DIED on the cross and came back to life, He also left the Holy Spirit for us). When He was on the cross, He suffered excruciating PAIN. HE IS OUR FOUNDATION, NOT THE BIBLE.

Hebrews chapter 6 is telling us that if we choose ANOTHER FOUNDATION, we have committed apostasy and it becomes IMPOSSIBLE to have forgiveness of sin (read the chapter).

The ancient societies needed to be taught how to be civilized before they could truly learn to be CHRISTLIKE. Paul spoke to them accordingly, but still found himself addressing prudish, idol worshipping cultures in his letters.

I actually never did say to do anything contrary to scripture, but to SUPERCEDE/surpass the 'requirements' OF SCRIPTURE (do you think that living and thinking like ancient uncivilized slave owners is the correct devotion for a modern Christian?).

Do you have any idea why God tells us about "self" and His "forever" name?....He doesn't want us to be a "book".

When somebody claims that something "trumps" what is written in the doctrine of Christ, that person is demonic. Do not listen to them.

Jesus visited towns that had the scriptures that foretold of MESSIAH, and they should have recognized that the promised Messiah had come when they saw the truth right in front of their face, but they wanted to argue all of their theology and check with their priests to make sure it was okay to believe what they saw. Jesus said to those towns....

Matthew 11:21 and Luke 10:13

"Woe to you".

It is okay to question and doubt (for a while), but we also will be held responsible for not RECOGNIZING the truth (I beleive time is short...this is the last generation....MY OPINION).

2 Thessalonians 2:10

"because they refused to love the truth AND SO BE SAVED".

First off if you have been taught wrong, whose fault is it?? it is YOURS..for not reading the word for yourself and having personal relationship with GOD....every single word in that bible will come to pass......every crossed t and dotted i....so there is ABSOLUTELY NO UNTRUTH IN THE BIBLE...NOT ONE....butero has much Godly wisdom from the word of God...If I were you I would listen to him...

[Guest Butero]

Against my better judgement, I feel like I have to ask you a question. You said you don't think there should be a chain of authority in marriage. Fair enough, but that doesn't mean that the Bible doesn't teach there is one put in place by God. I feel pretty certain that we are not going to agree on this even after I get an answer from you, but if the wife is not supposed to obey her husband in the marriage, why did God say in Genesis 3:16, "thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee?" Also, what does it mean in 1 Corinthians when it says the head of the woman is the man? Do you dissagree that the Bible says exactly what I said it does, or do you think that the Bible is wrong? I am just trying to understand where you are coming from? I am not asking you a trick question.

Gen 3 14-19 is God telling Adam and Eve what will happen as a result of their sin, the curse as it is. To me, this make the "ruling over" a result of the fall, not the way things "should be" or were meant to be.

Lets look at I Cor 11:3, Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. what does it mean that the head of Christ is God? It is this phrase and what it means that causes me to pause when I think of the husband in "command" over his wife. I just cant picture God saying to Jesus, "well we cant agree, so you will just have to do it my way!"

Too many people have taken this concept of "submit" and twisted it and spun it and wraped it. When we look at what it means to submit, we need to look at the whole verse.

Alright RG. Thanks for your response.

[Guest Butero]

Hello TITET,

We are really taking this thread off into left field. I would almost suggest starting a new thread to discuss this, but I am not sure what to call it if we did? Maybe something like "Following Scripture Or The Spirit?" because that seems to be what we are questioning? I don't think it is either or, because to me following scripture is what the Spirit of God wants us to do.

Let me get back to your last post. I don't really want to re-post everything you said because it makes my posts very long, and it really isn't necessary. Let's take your initial question about whether or not I take everything people told me as correct? The answer is no. When I first got saved 27 plus years ago, I did a lot more than I do today. For the most part, I believed what my first real Pastor said, with a few exceptions, but what caused me to have serious doubts about everything I was hearing was when he changed his doctrine as a result of things going on in his life. I lost confidence in him, and started questioning everything everyone said. I had already read through the Bible, but I went back through it again. Here are the conclusions I came to.

I fully believe the Bible is the Word of God, and is innerant. God never changes. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. I don't believe God has changed, so neither has his Word. You mentioned slavery, and though I am probably opening a new can of worms with this, I don't think slavery is a sin. It may not be the ideal, but it serves a purpose in some cases. We have a lot of people right now living in boxes and under bridges, and if they had the option of selling themselves into slavery for 7 years like they did in the Old Testament, it would be a step up for them. We could do that, or simplify things and let people work for room and board only, which would be basically the same thing without the 7 year contractual agreement. What I guess I am getting at is I would be perfectly comfortable living by the moral codes in the law of Moses, and I don't think they are out of date. They may be in that society wouldn't accept them, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't work. I guarantee you won't find anyone with this view in any main stream church.

I do think for myself, but my conclusions tell me that rather than evolving to a superior state, we have degenerated to an inferior state as a society. I am not against technology like the Amish people are, but I think they are more on the right track when it comes to their standards of morality. The Bible tells us to seek out the old paths and when we find them walk therein. That is how I see things. What perplexes me about you is that you quote scripture, but then you reject portions of scripture because of the original audience. I understand some portions of the Old Testament dealing with things like animal sacrifices and Israel's separation from the Gentile nations don't apply, but the moral laws still do, and so do all the New Testament teachings. Whether or not we are talking about issues like submission to authorities or hair length, sex outside of marriage, honoring our parents, prohibitions against homosexual unions, teachings on divorce and re-marriage, or even how the church is to be run, I believe we should follow scripture, and when we don't, it is not because we have evolved but because we are in rebellion.

[Guest Butero]

TITET,

I don't think that asking the question of whether we love the Bible or Jesus works because the way I see it, I love the Bible and I love Jesus. We know who Jesus is based on scripture. As I read the pages of scripture, I see the character of Christ in it's pages. John 1:1 refers to Jesus as the Word. Of course, if in your understanding, one must choose to love one or the other and can't love both, and you are going to start such a thread, I have no problem with it. This is just another example of where we don't see eye to eye.

[Anne]

Hi there,

I would like to ask you something about meaning of being submit to Husband. as There is some discussion that i have been talking with my husband about it so I need to be clear about this.

I told my perspective about being submit to Husband, work with husband as teamwork, and he said no it is not like he said it has to be control by husband and the wife have to do everything what he says.

I need your view of the concept of being submit to husband and the head of the house that the husband is supposed to love the wife just like Jesus love me. and he said that the husband (head of the house) is just being take care of everyone. I told him not that what the bible says i told him that the husband is supposed to love wife and be there for her etc. he disagreed with me. so I need the feedback what you think of "being submit to Husband" and being Head of the house

I am looking forward to hear what your feedbacks that will help me better understanding of this.

Thank you

DC

DC

I've read through the posts, i'm sorry to see than your problems continue, in respect of submitting to your husband......what are your thoughts on the matter?

[Openly Curious]

"this is the end of times" ...............meaning of submit

HUMBUG

I guess you've got a load off your shoulders now in the ranting and raving you did. We are told in the Word to cast our burdens upon the Lord. For the Lord cares about things that goes on in our lives to the point he will come to us and we can talk back and forth to God about our problems.

It is recorded in the book of James that if we would draw nigh to Him then he would draw nigh to us. It is a good picture knowing God is close by us. Whenever we pray in secret God said he would reward us outwardly. God was with us secretly and he will be with us outwardly as well. God was with us in secret while fasting and will be with us outwardly as well.

There is an old hymn that almost everyone knows it's called,

"What a friend We Have In Jesus"----a song so simple yet it is so rich in depth

with truth.

You have misused many of your choice scripture to bring out your own prejudices against those who are struggling with things and asking for help from others.