Who is my "brother" in Christ?

[John3;16]

3340 μετανοεω (metanoeo) met-an-o-eh-o

From 3326 and 3539: to think differently or afterwards i.e. reconsider - repent

Jesus sacrifice is the only atonement for sin, the bibicial definition of repent is always a change of mind and heart.

repentance is never perfection, but we should strive to walk in the spirit, and good works should follow. Our reasonable service.

Grace is only through faith, and faith comes by hearing, hearing the word of God.

[eis]

3340 μετανοεω (metanoeo) met-an-o-eh-o

From 3326 and 3539: to think differently or afterwards i.e. reconsider - repent

Jesus sacrifice is the only atonement for sin, the bibicial definition of repent is always a change of mind and heart.

repentance is never perfection, but we should strive to walk in the spirit, and good works should follow. Our reasonable service.

Grace is only through faith, and faith comes by hearing, hearing the word of God.

So you say one can be saved and NOT repent?

[OneLight]

Now I am really confused. I thought believing was faith. Now it is faith and repentance.

Repentance is a result of having faith, not equal to it. Ask yourself this. Can one repent when they have no faith in which to repent? No, one must have faith to repent. Now, ask yourself this, can one have faith in God and not repent? Yes, for they can refuse to turn from their sin. This clearly shows that repentance is the result of faith, not faith the result of repentance. They are not the same.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

You will notice that first come Gods grace, then our faith, which completes salvation. After faith, we are created to do His works, through obedience in Him.

So one can be saved and not repent?

Salvation is having faith in the Son of God, believing He died for our sins, rose again on the third day and is sitting at the right hand of the Father. While your faith turns to Him, the Holy Spirit is working inside you to convict you of your sins, turning you to Him. Some say they are going on at the same time, but when you look real close at what happens, and not just skim the surface, you will understand that repentance can not happen until faith first does its work. How can one repent when they have no faith in which to repent? Who or what woudl they be repenting to or for? It is through faith in God that we are saved by His grace toward us. Repentance is a work, whose fruit are seen in baptism, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, housing the homeless, visiting the sick, the jailed, the widows and orphans, amongst all the other work we do in Him.

1 Corinthians 3:9-15

For we are God

[nebula]

Why did not Paul include repentance in this passage?

nebula, are they saved if they don't repent? I don't remember you answering this. Yes or No will suffice.

Paul did not place repentance here for reason(s) unknown. However, just because it isn't here doesn't negate the need for repentance, or does it? I don't take one passage as the total of God's Word, so repentance surely applies.

I've been thinking about this response you gave.

You said you don't take one passage as the total of God's Word. Good!

However, before when you listed all your verses regarding salvation, verses such as this that did not mention baptism were noticeably left out.

And still, in answering this question, you still brushed this passage aside as if it was not God's word, not relevant, a nuisance. You keep trying to ask about what it does not say; you have yet to address what it does say.

[Guest shiloh357]

Now I am really confused. I thought believing was faith. Now it is faith and repentance.

Repentance is the response of faith. Your confusion stems from your misguided view that salvation is the result of following a list of requirements. Salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone. Repentance is incidental to faith. It is how we respond to the gospel. The fruit of repentance is the putting away of old, sinful habits and lifestyles and living a life of holiness before God.

[Guest shiloh357]

Now I am really confused. I thought believing was faith. Now it is faith and repentance.

Repentance is a result of having faith, not equal to it. Ask yourself this. Can one repent when they have no faith in which to repent? No, one must have faith to repent. Now, ask yourself this, can one have faith in God and not repent? Yes, for they can refuse to turn from their sin. This clearly shows that repentance is the result of faith, not faith the result of repentance. They are not the same.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

You will notice that first come Gods grace, then our faith, which completes salvation. After faith, we are created to do His works, through obedience in Him.

So one can be saved and not repent?

What you are still not grasping is that faith will naturally lead to repentance. Repentance exactly corresponds to true biblical faith. A person who comes to Christ in faith will naturally come to him in repentance. Faith includes believing, but that only scratches the surface of it.

[nebula]

on the fallen angels. you asked me about ham and canaan. it's #1519193 the second post on page 6

Sorry, I can't find the thread.

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE

Well that is what your denomination tells you. The Bible teaches that we are obedient because we are saved. The Bible does not say we are to work to earn salvation.

If they did, they were probably never saved. Again, salvation is an inward transformation, and that will borne out in our actions. A lot of people have religion, but have never found Christ.

Where does the bible teach we are obedient because we're saved?

Eph. 2: 8-10. We are saved not by works but unto good works, which we were created to perform.

Paul and James both draw on Abraham (Romans 4 and James 2) Paul shows that Abraham was justified (saved) by faith alone and that faith was credited to him as righteousness. James shows that Abraham's faith in God was later justified or validated by his willingness to sacrifice Isaac. Abraham was not obedient to God in order to get saved. Abraham was already justified before God and as such it was evidenced in His obedience.

In fact, Hebrews 11 is all about how the saints validated their faith through their works. Not one example is provided in that chapter of a person who was obeident in order to get saved. In each case, their obedience was an outworking of a faith that was already in existance.

But they accepted Jesus though. By your examples they are saved.

No, they are not saved. Like I have said repeatedly, truth faith always produces corresopnding action. True Christians are people with a heart for the Lord. They may not be missionaries or preachers, but they live for God and have an active, living faith. If a person claims to be saved, but has nothing to show for it, they need to reexamine the authenticity of their profession of faith.

QUOTE

All of the above. God's grace is received by faith along in Christ alone.

The problem is that you are looking at the Bible through the warped lense of the Church of Christ "theology. I know enough about what the Bible says about salvation that I can understand perfectly when the Eunich was saved. He was saved the moment He believed the gospel presented to Him by Phillip

Hebrews 5:8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,... Sounds to me obedience is needed as well.

Can you point to the verse that indicates this to be truth?

Here again, the unwarranted assumption you are operating under is that I am trying to say that obedience is not necssary. You really need to learn how to read what I am saying instead reacting to what you think I am saying.

Hebrews 5:8 is not saying that obedience to a set of prescribed works is necessary for salvation. If it is, then you are saving yourself under your own strength. Salvation is not a partnership between you and God. That defies the very concept of salvation. Those who are obedient are obedient BECAUSE they have been perfected. If you could obey Jesus sufficient enough to be saved, then you would not have need of further perfection. You would already be there. ]

If you could, by your own works, merit salvation, there would be nothing Jesus' death on the cross could do for you that you have not already secured on your own. If a man drowning in a river suddenly was able to find a means to keep from drowning, he would not need someone to jump in the water to save him. Likewise, if a sinner can do enough good works to merit salvation, he does not need the blood of Jesus.

QUOTE

You operate from the misguided and unfounded assumption that just because it is a commandment frmo God it is necessary for salvation.

Well that's a warped sense. I'm sorry to say that but it does not make sense at all. If God gave you a commandment and you didn't obey it, you went against God's commands... you went against God. Those who are against God are not of Him and have no hope of eternal salvation. Those who DO the will of the Father will see heaven. If God told Noah to build an ark and Noah did not obey, he would have been lost. God's commands always have something to do with salvation, whether it be ours or other's.

The person operating from a warped sense is you. No one is arguing that we should not obey God. The point is that obedience always stems from salvation. That is the biblical pattern. God's laws have always been given to a redeemed community. God did not give his laws to the other nations. He gave his laws to people who were redeemed by blood. There is no place where God promises that redemption comes though commandments. God's commandments are always given to redeemed people; they are never given to sinners as a prescription for salvation.

QUOTE

See, you twisted my response. I said that if the Eunich did not have access to water, he could have been baptized at a later date. That is different than someone flippantly ignoring a commandment of God for the sake of convenience. Evidently reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

There are a variety every day scenarios that could be posited where a person could be saved, be willing to be baptized but lack the opportunity.

But if he was not guaranteed tomorrow.

Exactly!!!! That is why it is by faith. If you add anything else, you exclude anyone and everyone who does not have access to it. If God said you have to have purple tennis shoes to be saved, someone would not have access to purple tennis shoes. Faith is inclusive. Your view is restrictive only to people blessed to be near a baptismal area.

In fact we do not know what happened after this, the eunuch could have been killed later that day or week... and he would have been lost because he did not follow the command given to him.

LOL, so if he did not have access to water through no fault of his own, then you could not logically state he was disobedient.

Besides, there is always a means for someone to get baptized if there was no water there they would have found some place that did.

But what if the nearest water was a days's travel in that desert region???

Such as?

Such a person getting saved on an airplane and the plane crashes before the person could find a baptismal.

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE

They were baptized by the Holy Spirit AND they were immersed in water. I don't see the problem

Well I would still appreciate it if you could show me the verses that distinctly show one person was baptized with the Holy Spirit only and another was baptized with water.

I never claimed that any such scripture existed, as I made no such claim of a person being baptized by the Holy Spirit only.

QUOTE

1Cor. 6:9 refers to people who live in immorality as a matter of principle. They are habitual sinners who live in and enjoy sin and for them, sin is a virtue. They are not going to hell for what they do. Those who commit those sins are only doing what comes natural to them, being separated from God. Their sins of immorality are symptoms of a greater spiritual problem. They are spiritually dead and their rampant immorality is the fruit of that spiritual condition. They are going to hell because they are separated from God.

Psalms 106:37 They even sacrificed their sons And their daughters to demons, 38 And shed innocent blood, The blood of their sons and daughters, Whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan; And the land was polluted with blood. 39 Thus they were defiled by their own works, And played the harlot by their own deeds.

If a person is defiled by their own works wouldn't it be true for the opposite? A person is justified by their works as well?

That is how the flesh reasons it, but that is not what the Scripture says. The Scriptures teach:

"For by grace are you saved through faith and this not of your selves NOT OF WORKS lest any man should boast." (Eph. 2:8,9)

Abraham was justifed apart from works according to Romans 4. Abraham was justified 25 year before he was circumcised and 430 before the law. The Bible says that Abraham belived God and was credited to him as righteousness. Abraham was justified by faith apart from any works, per the apostle Paul.

Ezekiel 18:21

[eis]

Why did not Paul include repentance in this passage?

nebula, are they saved if they don't repent? I don't remember you answering this. Yes or No will suffice.

Paul did not place repentance here for reason(s) unknown. However, just because it isn't here doesn't negate the need for repentance, or does it? I don't take one passage as the total of God's Word, so repentance surely applies.

I've been thinking about this response you gave.

You said you don't take one passage as the total of God's Word. Good!

However, before when you listed all your verses regarding salvation, verses such as this that did not mention baptism were noticeably left out.

And still, in answering this question, you still brushed this passage aside as if it was not God's word, not relevant, a nuisance. You keep trying to ask about what it does not say; you have yet to address what it does say.

I though this was my response here