Who is my "brother" in Christ?

[eis]

Paul's description above pertains to his condition before salvation.

I went back and re-read and re-read Romans 6 & 7. Paul speaks of living under Law and how the Law made him "know" sin. Even after the verses I posted he continues to speak in present tense through the end of Romans 7. Paul's fleshly man still struggled with sin even after his death to sin and life to God in Christ.

[Guest shiloh357]

Paul's description above pertains to his condition before salvation.

I went back and re-read and re-read Romans 6 & 7. Paul speaks of living under Law and how the Law made him "know" sin. Even after the verses I posted he continues to speak in present tense through the end of Romans 7. Paul's fleshly man still struggled with sin even after his death to sin and life to God in Christ.

We all still struggle with sin in the sense that our flesh has not been eradicated and we are not immune from temptation.

However, Paul in Romans 7 is dealing with the condition of an unsaved person under the law, particularly from his former experience of trying to please God with the framework of the law of Moses.

Paul's point is complete impotence of a trying a works-based or performance-based worldview.

That fact that he speaks in the present tense is purely empathetic. He is speaking from the vantage point of a person still under the law still trying to keep the law to please God. Paul uses present tense in Romans 8 and Paul is drawing a stark contrast between the the person trying to keep the law vs. someone who is in Christ, so Paul cannot be claiming that both are part of his present experience. The experience of a person living Romans 8 is the polar opposite of a person living in a Romans 7 experience. It is being in Christ (Romans 8) that bring the deliverance from the experience that Paul cries out to be delivered from in Romans 7.

[eis]

Paul's description above pertains to his condition before salvation.

I went back and re-read and re-read Romans 6 & 7. Paul speaks of living under Law and how the Law made him "know" sin. Even after the verses I posted he continues to speak in present tense through the end of Romans 7. Paul's fleshly man still struggled with sin even after his death to sin and life to God in Christ.

We all still struggle with sin in the sense that our flesh has not been eradicated and we are not immune from temptation.

However, Paul in Romans 7 is dealing with the condition of an unsaved person under the law, particularly from his former experience of trying to please God with the framework of the law of Moses.

Paul's point is complete impotence of a trying a works-based or performance-based worldview.

That fact that he speaks in the present tense is purely empathetic. He is speaking from the vantage point of a person still under the law still trying to keep the law to please God. Paul uses present tense in Romans 8 and Paul is drawing a stark contrast between the the person trying to keep the law vs. someone who is in Christ, so Paul cannot be claiming that both are part of his present experience. The experience of a person living Romans 8 is the polar opposite of a person living in a Romans 7 experience. It is being in Christ (Romans 8) that bring the deliverance from the experience that Paul cries out to be delivered from in Romans 7.

I don't fully agrees with your assessment, but then what's new.

[Scare Bear]

Hi Scarebear, I don't know you so well. I sent you a message and no reply. How are you?

Welcome to Worthy! How long have you been a Christian? What denomination church do you go to?

Like I said, it's nice to meet more Christians my age

Oh hi! lol I'm sorry I didn't respond. It gets crazy sometimes. I'm very well, how about yourself?

Thank you for welcoming me here. I have been a Christian well, I was baptized at 14 but fell away for quite sometime and about 2 years ago I decided to pick up the pieces and come back. I am a member of the church of Christ.

[Littlelambseativy]

No matter what any denomination thinks, Paul makes a statement that puts it all in perspective.

1 Corinthians 1:17 (New International Version)

17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel

[eis]

No matter what any denomination thinks, Paul makes a statement that puts it all in perspective.

1 Corinthians 1:17 (New International Version)

17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

The one and only thing that has any importance is the work done by Christ on the cross. If you add to it (works) what Christ did is not sufficient, if you take anything away from what Christ did - you make what He did of no effect. You cannot add or take away.

Everything hinges on the cross and the blood atonement that most costly sum of the Son of the Almighty God. Nothing else is of any relevance without the blood of Christ.

Paul knew that baptism without knowledge or understanding was worth nothing. He knew that faith came by hearing and hearing by the word of God. The commandment of the Great Commission was to "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to all creation". Going and preaching - sowing the seed - that was Paul's mission. The hearer's response was to "believe and be baptized" so that they shall be saved, lest by disbelieving they would be condemned, never mind that silly baptism in water ordnance (command) that had clearly been part of the Lord's final instruction in Matt 28:19. This IS baptism in water clearly since men can only baptize in water. Only the Lord can baptize men in the Holy Spirit.

Interestingly Paul's statement to the church in Rome

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; 10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. NASB

Has two components: 1) confessing & 2) believing

Some here state that salvation comes at the point of faith (believing), well does it? Paul says confess and believe, then believe and confess. What if one does not confess, will he be saved. Some have already said that repentance isn't needed, so how about confessing? Or is this another of those man-made negative inference fallacies?

Edited April 5, 2010 by eis

[Guest]

There is gold, and a multitude of rubies:

but the lips of knowledge are a precious jewel.

Proverbs 20:15

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.... Or is this another of those man-made negative inference fallacies?....

Truth

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Joel 2:32

Has

Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Habakkuk 2:4

Never

The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

Jeremiah 31:3

Changed

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

Jeremiah 15:16

You Think?

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Isaiah 1:18

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Believe

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Isaiah 53:5-6

And Be Blessed Beloved

As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Psalms 103:12

Love, Joe

For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. Job 19:25-27

[Guest shiloh357]

Some here state that salvation comes at the point of faith (believing), well does it?

Yes it does.

Paul says confess and believe, then believe and confess. What if one does not confess, will he be saved.

Confession is born of faith. Confession of Christ as Lord can only come from someone who beleives. Confession is a public testimony of faith. The saved person will confess Jesus as Savior and Lord.

Salvation does not come from some grocery list of duties one must perform. The minute a person truly believes in Jesus Christ as the gospel commands, they are saved. That salvation will be evidenced in their words and their deeds.

Some have already said that repentance isn't needed, so how about confessing? Or is this another of those man-made negative inference fallacies?

Repentance is a given. Again, a true believer will repent. You cannot separate repentance from faith. A person who is truly saved repents of sin every day. Repentance is the fruit of faith.

[Guest shiloh357]

Paul knew that baptism without knowledge or understanding was worth nothing.

So, according to you, if a person has been baptized, but not baptized for the remission of sins, they are not saved.

[Guest]

Author Unknown

How Can We Sinners Know

How can we sinners know our sins on earth forgiven? How can my gracious Savior show my name inscribed in heaven?

What we have felt and seen, with confidence we tell, and publish to the ends of earth the signs infallible.

We who in Christ believe that he for us hath died, we all... his unknown peace receive and feel his blood applied.

We by his Spirit prove and know the things of God, the things which freely doth impart and signs us with his cross.

The meek and lowly heart that in our Savior was, to us that Spirit doth impart and signs us with his cross.

Our nature's turned, our mind transformed in all its powers, and both the witnesses are joined, the Spirit of God with ours.

The Prophet

John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Luke 3:16

The LORD

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:7

The Believer

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 3:5-6

The Believer

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 6:63

The Believer

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:1

The Believer

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 8:9

The Believer

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Romans 8:15

And The Record

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1 John 5:11-13

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It Is Written

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 6:47

Believe

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

John 11:25-26

And Be Blessed Beloved

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1 John 3:1

Love, Joe