Where's America II?

[wordsower]

Rollingthunder,

Isn't wars and rumors of wars the 2nd seal?  The first being false religions?  

[rollinTHUNDER]

Rollingthunder,

Isn't wars and rumors of wars the 2nd seal?

[wordsower]

OK, I see your point but why do the first 6 seals have to be part of the tribulation?  Chapter seven deals with the rapture and eight with the plagues.  Consider this again:

 The 1st seal is the white horse that conquers, satan, on a white horse, like Jesus, but with a bow and no arrow, deceiving the nations, I believe these are false religions that have the appearance of Christ.  We have these everywhere. The 2nd seal is the fiery red horse that takes peace from the earth and that the people should kill one another, I believe this is war and rumors of wars,we have this definately,the 3rd seal is a black horse with a pair of scales saying a quart of wheat for a denarius and three quarts of barley for a denarius and do not harm the oil and the wine-I believe this is poverty, famine and loss of economic power on the wicked, with the righteous spared. We have this too.   Then the 4th seal, a pale (Hebrew-cholera meaning chlorine green) horse and the name of him who sat on it was death and hades and power is given to him over a 4th of the earth to kill with the sword and with hunger and with death and by the beasts of the earth.  I believe this is Islaam, the fastest growing religion in the world, whose color is green, whose followers now make up 1/4 of the earths population and whose emblem is the sword and whose purpose is to kill all infidels to Islaam and convert the rest, and who are in the process of using the beasts of the earth to kill infidels, i.e. the west nile virus.  The 5th seal is the souls of the persecuted Christians crying out to God for justice.  The 6th seal is a great earthquake, the sun becoming black as sackcloth, the moon like blood and the stars of heaven falling to the earth.  I believe this is a nuclear war.

I was watching a preacher talking about Revelation and the picture of the rider on the white horse that he put up was almost exactly like the terot card that the news put out a couple of days later.  It caught my breath!  It was like the Spirit was telling me this is Islaam!  I am very opened minded and seeking truth, so if you have a definate reason why this can't be so, please tell me!  Definately not trying to debate

:thumb:

[rollinTHUNDER]

OK, I see your point but why do the first 6 seals have to be part of the tribulation?

[wordsower]

Otay, thanks.  still looking up! :inlove:  :thumb:

[rollinTHUNDER]

I didn't expect that we would be rushing into war real soon. I think we have a little time left, it may be very little though, because Saddam is not smart enough to stay out of trouble for an extended period of time. He must be going nuts just about now

[rollinTHUNDER]

As I said in my previous post, I didn't expect that Saddam could stay out of trouble for any length of time, but this is ridiculous. Not even one week later and he is already acting stupid, either that or the U.S. could be lying which also another possibility if Bush is just itching to get revenge. But who knows?? Here's the story:

US: Iraq Breached Resolution Already

Nov. 16, 2002

(CBS)

"If there is not full cooperation by Iraq we will be backed up in full by the council"

Chief U.N. arms inspector Hans Blix, saying Baghdad has no compliance wiggle room in light of the Security Council's unanimous vote

(CBS) In an action U.S. officials consider a violation of the recently-passed U.N. Security Council resolution, Iraq fired surface-to-air missiles and anti-aircraft guns at American and British warplanes patrolling a "no-fly" zone.

Coalition warplanes bombed an Iraqi air defense site in retaliation for Friday's firing, a Pentagon statement said.

It was the first coalition strike on Iraq since President Saddam Hussein's government accepted the Security Council resolution Wednesday that demanded he disarm and allow inspectors to search for chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.

Under the resolution, a material breach must be reported to the Security Council for new debate and could be used as possible justification for U.S.-led military action to remove Saddam's government.

"When we were working on the resolution we said that Iraq should not take any action that would be hostile act against any member state," says Secretary of State Colin Powell.

Indeed, Paragraph 8 of the resolution says "Iraq shall not take or threaten hostile acts directed against any representative or personnel of the United Nations ... or of any member state taking action to uphold any council resolution."

U.S. and British aircraft are patrolling the no-fly zone to enforce an earlier U.N. resolution barring Saddam from oppressing his own people.

Firing on those aircraft would, according to White House officials, violate President Bush's zero tolerance policy toward Iraqi violations of the resolution.

But the big question is whether this incident starts a war with Iraq.

CBS News correspondent David Martin, reports that U.S. officials intend to report this incident to the Security Council, but it will be up to the council to decide whether this constitutes a violation of the resolution. And that doesn't seem likely since not all the members support the U.S. and British operations in the no-fly zones.

A U.S. official, speaking to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity, said the government considers the firings a material breach, but could not say whether or when American officials would raise the issue with the United Nations.

State Department spokesman Frederick Jones said the United States had the option of reporting the Iraqi firing to the Security Council but had not decided whether to do so.

Mr. Bush and other U.S. officials have said they believe Iraq's firing on coalition planes patrolling the northern and southern no-fly zones would violate the latest U.N. resolution.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and other Pentagon officials, however, have been vague about whether Iraqi hostile actions in the zones would be considered a trigger for a wider U.S.-led attack.

In Paris, Chief U.N. arms inspector Hans Blix said Saturday Iraq will face the full might of the U.N. Security Council if it fails to cooperate completely with inspectors looking for suspected Iraqi weapons of mass destruction.

He said technological innovations since U.N. inspectors were last in Iraq in 1998 would strengthen their ability to detect signs of Iraq's suspected weapons programs.

Blix also said that by voting unanimously for renewed inspections of Iraq, the Security Council greatly strengthened his team's ability to do their job and gave Iraq no room to obstruct the inspectors.

"If there is not full cooperation by Iraq we will be backed up in full by the council," Blix told reporters after meeting with France's foreign minister, Dominique de Villepin.

"We hope and expect to have full Iraqi cooperation," Blix said.

Blix was in Paris on his way to Cyprus, where an advance team of U.N. inspectors was gathering. The team is expected to fly to Baghdad on Monday, with inspections possibly beginning Nov. 27.

Before his talks with de Villepin, Blix warned that the inspectors' job will be tough.

"We are fully aware of the difficulties and the uncertainties, but we'll do out best," Blix said.

Saddam's government told Iraqis on Friday they must welcome the inspection team.

The Bush administration says it will go to war if Saddam does not comply with the new U.N. resolution to cooperate in declaring and dismantling Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.

Saddam accepted the U.N. resolution on Wednesday but insists Iraq has no chemical, biological and nuclear arms.

"Iraq's acceptance of the resolution is an attempt to save our people from any harm," the state-run Al-Iraq newspaper said Friday. "This is the most important thing."

Pentagon spokesman Lt. Col. David Lapan said Iraq fired surface-to-air missiles and anti-aircraft artillery at coalition planes. The shots came from Iraqi positions near the southern city of An Najaf, said Cmdr. Dan Gage, a spokesman for the U.S. Central Command.

Coalition planes used precision-guided weapons to attack an air defense communications facility near An Najaf about 85 miles southeast of Baghdad, a Pentagon statement said.

There were strikes Sunday against two surface-to-air missile sites near Tallil, 175 miles southeast of Baghdad.

The latest U.N. Security Council resolution, passed 15-0 on Nov. 8, prohibits Iraq from taking or threatening any hostile action against countries "taking action to uphold any council resolution."

The United States and Britain say they established the no-fly zones to enforce Security Council resolutions calling on Saddam to end attacks on Kurds in northern Iraq and Shiite Muslims in the south.

The resolutions do not specifically deal with interdiction zones.

Iraq calls the zones violations of its sovereignty and has repeatedly but unsuccessfully tried to shoot down the warplanes that patrol them.

[rollinTHUNDER]

More "Propaganda", more "Rumors of Wars" and more "Fear". I am so sick and tired of hearing this nonsense, but we better get used to it, because this kinda noise is here to stay. I believe there is some truth to what the VP says and I will bold it in below.

http://www.worthynews.com/zone.cg....gi?http

Sorry Everybody, I couldn't cut and paste it for some reason. But you can check it out in the 6th paragraph.

[rollinTHUNDER]

Look what Uncle Sam is up too now!! Doesn't this strike you odd?? Why in the world would the U.S. be pushing so hard for the EU to add Turkey to their ranks?? As I said many moons ago, the coalition will probably attack Iraq from Turkey. This doesn't surprise me one bit, but what does surprise me is that Turkey is probably getting used in this deal. They want to join the EU, but the EU really doesn't want Arabs in their clubhouse. I can see the dual fulfillment of Jeremiah 50 coming into play here, where verse 3 is the first destruction of Babylon, and now verse 9 will be it's double. It appears G W is really licking his chops on this one, but he is way out of bounds. I can't help but smell a rat here. Here's the link:

http://euobserver.com/index.phtml?sid=9&aid=8595

03.12.2002 - 08:03 CET

US steps up pressure on EU to accept Turkey

The US is calling it "unthinkable" that Turkey not join the European Union. (Photo: EUobserver.com)

The US is continuing to pressure the EU to admit Turkey, describing the country as a model for other Muslim countries. The latest in this campaign, after the US President himself, is Paul Wolfowitz, America's deputy defence secretary, who said that exclusion of Turkey from the EU, is "unthinkable". Turkey, a key US ally and Nato member, is of strategic importance in case of any US-led military invasion of Iraq, due to its military bases.

Mr Wolfowitz's remarks came a day before he was scheduled to leave for Ankara to try to discuss the Iraq situation.

Speaking in London, Mr Wolfowitz said it was "impossible to overstate how decisive" the next two weeks would be for relations between Turkey and the West. He said Turkey's success could demonstrate to the world's one billion Muslims that there was a far better path than that of destruction and despair.

Turkey is the only one of the 13 candidate countries with whom accession negotiations with the EU have not yet started. The EU so far has not committed itself to granting Turkey a date for the beginning of these negotiations. Member states are set to make a decision on this next week during the Copenhagen Summit.

Different opinions, however, exist within the EU itself. Val

[wordsower]

Does this mean anything?

The history of Turkey encompasses, first, the history of Anatolia before the coming of the Turks and of the civilizations--Hittite, Thracian, Hellenistic, and Byzantine--of which the Turkish nation is the heir by assimilation or example. Second, it includes the history of the Turkish peoples, including the Seljuks, who brought Islam and the Turkish language to Anatolia. Third, it is the history of the Ottoman Empire, a vast, cosmopolitan, pan-Islamic state that developed from a small Turkish amirate in Anatolia and that for centuries was a world power.