Question

[Guest Butero]

If the Jewish nation would have accepted Christ Jesus, would the new covenant have been brought to the Gentile?

Had the Jewish nation accepted Jesus, there would have been no crucifixion, and thus no resurrection. If Jesus had taken on the role of Messiah in His first coming, Israel would have gone straight into the Messianic Kingdom and there would have been no church age as we know it. There would have been no new covenant for the Gentiles to become a part of.

I think you are right on the money. And Nebula, you are exactly right about the what ifs? There is a cause and effect of every action we take, and one small change can have a huge impact on everyone.

[OneLight]

No, but since we are playing with "what if's" then what if God wrote the prophecies differently?

And what if Moses had not struck the rock the second time? And what if the Israelites destroyed all the inhabitants of Canaan like they were supposed to? And what if they never asked for a king?

This what if game is too tiring .. I give!

What has happened happened because God planned it that way, and being a Gentile, I am so glad it did!

[RebekahDavid]

Blessings,

what did happen:

Romans 11

1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

9And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

[Hunterpoet]

As best as I can figure three folks answered the question. One in the affirmative, Two in the negative.

So now a follow up question.

Since the new covenant was brought to the Gentile...1) was this God's plan all along, or , 2) because the Jewish nation fell away and rejected Him.

[Guest shiloh357]

As best as I can figure three folks answered the question. One in the affirmative, Two in the negative.

So now a follow up question.

Since the new covenant was brought to the Gentile...1) was this God's plan all along, or , 2) because the Jewish nation fell away and rejected Him.

It was part of God's plan all along. Romans 9, 10 and 11 make up Paul's argument about that. Paul defends God's justness in causing a partial hardening of the Jewish people in Romans 9. Paul's point is that God can use whomever He wants for whatever purpose He sees fit. Paul uses that as a launching pad in the next two chapters to call on Gentiles to bring the gospel back to the Jewish people.

[Guest Butero]

As best as I can figure three folks answered the question. One in the affirmative, Two in the negative.

So now a follow up question.

Since the new covenant was brought to the Gentile...1) was this God's plan all along, or , 2) because the Jewish nation fell away and rejected Him.

Yes. God knew all along the Jewish people would reject Jesus and that they would crucify him, so it was God's plan that the gospel would be taken to the gentile nations. Eventually, the time of the gentiles will end with a terrible battle at Armageddon, and after that, Jesus will return and set up his Kingdom. Israel will be restored back to the Jewish people.

[nebula]

Since the new covenant was brought to the Gentile...1) was this God's plan all along, or , 2) because the Jewish nation fell away and rejected Him.

"Who has known the mind of the Lord?"

You are asking a question that cannot be fit into a nice tidy little box, you know.

[Hunterpoet]

Since the new covenant was brought to the Gentile...1) was this God's plan all along, or , 2) because the Jewish nation fell away and rejected Him.

"Who has known the mind of the Lord?"

You are asking a question that cannot be fit into a nice tidy little box, you know.

Yes , I do understand this; And normally would not do so, but there is reason behind this. I'm attempting to discover the mind of other believers like myself, because of something I heard stated.

I ask your patience and indulgence.

[drossfurnace]

As best as I can figure three folks answered the question. One in the affirmative, Two in the negative.

So now a follow up question.

Since the new covenant was brought to the Gentile...1) was this God's plan all along, or , 2) because the Jewish nation fell away and rejected Him.

Or both?

im going to say that since there were specific prophecies laid out by God far in advance of the jews' rejection of Jesus, it was therefore His plan BEFORE it ever happened (because He foresaw it).

[Guest Butero]

As best as I can figure three folks answered the question. One in the affirmative, Two in the negative.

So now a follow up question.

Since the new covenant was brought to the Gentile...1) was this God's plan all along, or , 2) because the Jewish nation fell away and rejected Him.

Or both?

im going to say that since there were specific prophecies laid out by God far in advance of the jews' rejection of Jesus, it was therefore His plan BEFORE it ever happened (because He foresaw it).

I agree. I also agree with Nebula's earlier comment that it really doesn't do any good to ask what if questions like this because God's plan was already in place. It is like the what if regarding Judas Iscariot? What if he decided not to betray Jesus? What if he decided to repent after betraying Jesus? That wasn't going to happen. People today ask what would happen if everyone in the world repented of their sins and whether or not the tribulation has to occur? These are interesting questions to ponder, but God has declared what is going to take place and nothing will change it.