Christian Singer Jennifer Knapp Says She's Gay

[Axxman]

I was so saddened when I read about this last week. As a parent it just seems like the homosexual lifestyle is being thrown at my children from every direction and when it comes from friendly territory it seems to be even more devastating.

[Massorite]

I think that if you use levitical law to prove homosexuality an abomination, you have to adhere to the strict dietary restrictions as well. Otherwise you are simply picking and choosing.

No, the levitical laws pertaining to ritual purification were limited to Israelite priesthood and to their services in the tabernacle/Temple. Those cannot be applicable to all people. They were not even applical to Israelites.

Homosexuality is immoral and is condemned elsewhere in the Bible. Moral/ethical laws given in Scripture pertain to all people not to just one group.

But we are no longer under the letter of the law.

Yes we are. The law has never been eradicated.

I believe that probably gay men and women who are Christians should live a celibate life.

No, they should repent and come to Christ for deliverance.

I believe that probably gay men and women who are Christians should live a celibate life

How is that consistent with your position that it is not a sin??? If you really don't think it is a sin, then shouldn't you be advocating that they should fully practice their "orientation?"

I know that it is hard to do but I think there is a very special place in the Body of Christ for homosexuals.

Sure, after they repent and get delievered.

They have been an integral part of the

worship in the church since the early days of the Church in Rome. The

castrata held a high place in early society of the Church. And certainly the priesthood has been a safe haven for those homosexuals who wanted to not get married and live a life that is respected by society.

Yes, and pedophilia scandals, are proof of how well that is working out. Who knows how long these types of things have been going on? We are just now exposing them and talking about them, but it would be naive to think that this has not been going on for some time.

Instead of providing a "safe haven" for homosexuals to continue in their sin, the church should have been leading them to repentance from it

For once we are in total agreement Shiloh. I just read an artical where she asserted that she did not have a problem within herself about being gay but that she did have problems with the church. So she no longer has a struggle with being gay which means her hearts is hardened.

[Guest LadyC]

why she should never be accepted back into the CCM genre... straight from scripture...

from 1 cor 5:

1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named[a] among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

you see, Jesus has already judged them. He tells US to deliver them to the devil for the destruction of the flesh so that his spirit might be saved. since we can't physically deliver someone to satan, i believe what is being said here is that we are to send that person out into the world, because if he's accepted among us, he won't be able to FEEL the conviction of the Holy Spirit. but if he's no longer allowed to fellowship with christians, then he will perhaps repent.

continuing on in the same chapter:

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”[

to summarize... we are to leave judgment of the secular sinner to God and interact with them so that we may be a witness to them. but ONLY to those who do not claim to be christians.

we ARE to judge those among us, and to "put away from ourselves" anyone who claims to be a brother (or sister) in Christ and yet continues to live an unrepentant lifestyle.

You are being a little selective in your reading. The purpose of church discipline is to cut the individual unrepentant sinner off from the church completely in order for them to experience the full consequences of their sin without any support at all from the churchand to bring them to repentance. Read 2nd Corinthians to learn what the result of Paul's recommendation was in 1st Corinthians 5. Everyone involved repented and was restored to fellowship.

Church discipline is not punitive; it is designed to be used as a last resort.

i wasn't selective AT ALL in my reading. i posted scripture that addressed what we are to do. i never said it was to be punative, and i'm fully aware that there is hope in the action of discontinuing fellowship with an unrepentant person who claims to be a christian. that hope is for their restoration. and i included that in my summary of the first portion of the scripture quotes. i'll even go back and bold it for you. and i'm sure YOU are aware that disobedience to that command has a negative affect on the church body (a little leavening leavens the whole lump.)

the command is clear. we are to discontinue fellowship. we are to disassociate ourselves with those who claim to be in Christ but are not. the reasons for that command do not change the command.

...and should the individual genuinely repent? What then? Are we to continue to withhold fellowship?

what a stupid question. i do believe you are intentionally trying to be argumentative. not just with me, but with others, as well.

if she were to genuinely repent and abandon her depraved lifestyle and commit her life to Jesus as her Lord and Saviour, then of course she should be back in fellowship with christians. in no way did i ever imply otherwise. what part of the hope of discontinuing fellowship being to RESTORE her did you miss?

[nebula]

Problem is...he's part Finnish; they do that on a regular basis after a hot sauna...so that wouldn't be punishment!

WEll, i"m sure you can think of something more creative.

[e lansing]

One's sexuality is determined at birth through genetics.

Annotations from the Oxford Bible on Romans 1:26-27

"Degrading passions, while Torah forbids a male "lying with a male as with a woman" paul's Jewish contemporaries criticized a range of sexual behaviors common in the pagan world. Although widely read today as a reference to homosexuality, the language of "unnatural intercourse" was more often used in Paul's day to denote not the orientation of sexual desire, but its immoderate indulgence, which was believed to weaken the body (the due penalty).

Wrong! there is no gay gene!!!

[e lansing]

SexuL immorality is a sin. Homosexuality is not. That is the difference.

So what is the difference between the two, besides the words? There is no gay gene and to say people are born that way is to blame God for sin and call Him a lier.

Now that she is open and honest, although I believe God calls homosexuals to a life of celibacy- I think Paul himself struggled with this -

Wrong! To say "God calls homosexuals" is to mock God and make Him responsable for sin. The only thing God calls any of us to do is repent of our sin!

e

[Isaiah 6:8]

One's sexuality is determined at birth through genetics.

Annotations from the Oxford Bible on Romans 1:26-27

"Degrading passions, while Torah forbids a male "lying with a male as with a woman" paul's Jewish contemporaries criticized a range of sexual behaviors common in the pagan world. Although widely read today as a reference to homosexuality, the language of "unnatural intercourse" was more often used in Paul's day to denote not the orientation of sexual desire, but its immoderate indulgence, which was believed to weaken the body (the due penalty).

Sorry but not provable or proven, matter of fact just the opposite has been proven. more later when I have time.

[winsomebulldog]

Whether someone is gay or straight has to do with genetics and not sex.

No, it has to do with demonically influenced perversion.

Then by that logic, no one is responsible for their own sin. We can do anything and say the devil made me do it. What about individual accountability?

No, that's a misunderstanding.

I was demonically influenced to desire suicide. If I had not resisted the desire and gone through with it, I would still have been responsible for my actions, would I not?

Demons often work by screwing your perceptions - even your own feelings. I've had enough unpleasant experiences with them to figure this out. It saved my life once to realize what I was feeling was not me.

...which answer avoids the question of individual responsibility. How do you know it was a demon rather than bad brain chemistry or the temporarily overwhelming weight of your circumstances? In the final analysis, no one, demon or otherwise, influences how we feel unless we choose to let them.

Spoken like a person who's never experienced depression or any one of a whole host of other issues. I've been desperately depressed. Suicidal. Almost catatonic with it all. But is was never, ever my choice. It wasn't as if I could just get up, shake my head, and decide to be happy. I have heard the absolutely twisted thoughts that ran through my head and whether they came from bad brain chemistry or a demon bent on pushing me over the edge, you can bet that I didn't choose to endure that agony. To imply that such things are simply a matter of choice is to belittle the struggle that countless people endure on a daily basis. I am alive and reasonably whole today because God carried me through those darkest of times. Not because I chose to wake up one day and stop listening to the dark ramblings inside my own head.

Edited April 19, 2010 by winsomebulldog

[winsomebulldog]

Homosexuality is not some kind of disease that can be cured by a dose of good ole fire and brimstone. It is a part of who you are a part of your DNA - but people still make choices but God's love for us does not depend on our choices. Amazing grace.

Incest and rape are covered by Christ's summation of the law - loving our neighbor - homosexuality is not.

I'm fascinated by how you continue to refer to homosexuality as being genetic while not providing one iota of proof. I've heard that they found a "fat" gene and a "alcoholic" (or was it "addiction"?) gene. Yet, every person who has these genes is not destined to be fat or an addict. Even if some scientist rose up tomorrow and proved that there is such a thing as a "gay" gene, I would still argue that it was a choice. Think about it. Some people like tomatoes. Others do not. Some people love the color orange, others do not. How much of this is learned behavior and how much is just some genetic quirk that makes tomatoes taste good or orange an appealing color? Homosexuality isn't some inescapable part of our genetic code. It is a choice. A person with the "fat" gene may have to work a little harder to not put on weight, but they aren't irreversibly destined to be overweight. A person with a gene that marks an addictive nature does not necessarily have to be an addict. And my favorite evidence, the scientist who decided to do a brain study on violent criminals. He found that the criminals he studied all had similar brain patterns. And he followed that up by admitting that his brain pattern was just like theirs. He wasn't born a murderer. He CHOSE not to be a criminal. He CHOSE to be a scientist.

If you have some scientific proof that homosexuality is hardwired into a person's genetic code, please show us. I'm sure we would all love to see it.

Edited April 19, 2010 by winsomebulldog

[Guest LadyC]

why she should never be accepted back into the CCM genre... straight from scripture...

from 1 cor 5:

what a stupid question. i do believe you are intentionally trying to be argumentative. not just with me, but with others, as well.

if she were to genuinely repent and abandon her depraved lifestyle and commit her life to Jesus as her Lord and Saviour, then of course she should be back in fellowship with christians. in no way did i ever imply otherwise. what part of the hope of discontinuing fellowship being to RESTORE her did you miss?

Because of this statement. If repentence occurs is she to be restored to fellowship or not? Seems a bit vindictive to me.

asked and answered. twice.

but since you are being deliberately obtuse, i'll answer it again. but do NOT ask me again.

for the THIRD TIME, if she repents and reconciles with God, she should be restored to fellowship.