The power of godliness- Do we have it? Do we deny it?

[missjenny]

Gods word is true through and through. There will be a falling away. The real question is what are we holding onto? Is it power or is it Christ?

If I lay my self down in everything I do and allow His Spirit to live in and through me, then the fruits of His Spirit will abound and I will be nothing and He will be everything. If I focus on just having the power to accomplish what my flesh can not, then I am looking through a tunnel and seeking a prize and not the Person of Christ. Not everyone who walks in the Spirit will be the exact same way for God has created a full body for Himself where one is an eye, another an ear, another a finger, another a toe ... all the same body, but have different functions.

It is when we stop seeking the rewards and seek Him that we cast our cares away and accept all that He has for us, not even caring for this world, though still loving those who are in it. We are to be content in what He has for us.

Let's look at the scripture you brought forward.

2 Timothy 3

Perilous Times and Perilous Men

But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.

The Man of God and the Word of God

But you have carefully followed my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, perseverance, persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra

[OneLight]

Gods word is true through and through. There will be a falling away. The real question is what are we holding onto? Is it power or is it Christ?

If I lay my self down in everything I do and allow His Spirit to live in and through me, then the fruits of His Spirit will abound and I will be nothing and He will be everything. If I focus on just having the power to accomplish what my flesh can not, then I am looking through a tunnel and seeking a prize and not the Person of Christ. Not everyone who walks in the Spirit will be the exact same way for God has created a full body for Himself where one is an eye, another an ear, another a finger, another a toe ... all the same body, but have different functions.

It is when we stop seeking the rewards and seek Him that we cast our cares away and accept all that He has for us, not even caring for this world, though still loving those who are in it. We are to be content in what He has for us.

Let's look at the scripture you brought forward.

2 Timothy 3

Perilous Times and Perilous Men

But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.

The Man of God and the Word of God

But you have carefully followed my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, perseverance, persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra—what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me. Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Know the truth and you will spot an impostor. It is by their fruits that we will know them, and by our fruits that they will know us.

Hi Onelight,

I think you may be thinking (not sure of course) that the power that is being spoken of is something that would make one have a "Holy Ghost" experience, or speak in tongues or give me gifts or somehow benefit me....which this is not. This is definitely a power from God...but since the flesh is very limited in it's capacity...in fact it only can really produce short lived results of any kind, and it is 'me' centered. Therefore we NEED God's power to live the kind of life that is other-centered...a life that IS the kind of life that Job had to go thru harsh trials to learn...a life that is consistantly focused on the #1 fruit that fulfills the law...a deep love towards others, which in-turn, the flesh cooperates...as these two ways are antithetical.

Gal. 5:16,22-23 "So, I encourage you to live according to your new life in the Holy Spirit. THEN you WON'T be doing what your sinful nature craves. But when the Holy Spirit controls your lives, He will produce this kind of fruit in us: love for others, joy, peacemaking, patience and etc..."

In ourselves we cannot live this way...but in God's power it is very possible.

Sorry if I was not through enough in my first post.

May times I have come across those who seek God and confuse the two "powers", which is why I posted what I have. You are correct in a way, that I was speaking of the "power" one seeks through the Holy Spirit, as if it were the main focus of their seeking. The Power to heal the sick, raise people from the dead, give sight to the blind, allow the crippled to walk. They are on a power trip, stating that they can claim what every they wish and God has to comply. I agree, this is completely different the the power of God working in us to create us into the likeness of is Son, Christ Jesus.

[traveller]

I understood the OP as explaining the process of moving from a believer into that of a disciple. Afterall, it's easy to discern those who are believers, yet who are not readily distinguished from the secular world, from those who actually walk the path exercising their faith. We are called to be "doers of the word."

James 1:

19 This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; 20 for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God. 21 Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls. 22 But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; 24 for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. 25 But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does. (NASB)

Gideon, please correct me if I'm incorrect in your meaning.

[missjenny]

I was saved at the end of the Jesus movement...and we loved growing and learning and becoming familiar with the Spiritual...as we learned that the carnal nature was not familiar with the things of God. We looked up to veterens of the faith who had been walking in the Holy Spirit for many years and longed to learn from them. However, for a number of years now I have seen so much of the American church (I am not familiar with living anywhere else) lose their Spiritual fruits,Love and power that leads to Godly maturity...as well as the fervor to learn and grow more Spiritually. Instead of desiring more insight, I see it is quickly rejected and disputed...I suppose because it doesn't sound familiar.

I am going to display a little gall here, when I say that I believe that so many of us that profess Chrisitanity need to begin realizing that Chrisitanity is a Spiritual walk....not carnal. Therefore we need to begin stepping into the Spiritual realm and begin getting to know intimately God Himself, the Author of scripture Himself, and His Holy Spirit...then interpreting scripture and living the Christian life will be more powerful, fruitful and not as difficult, or as divisive in the body...because the flesh has a MUCH greater chance of getting out of the way when we come to truly know God, not just in the head/intellectually, but personally and daily through walking in His powerful Holy Spirit.

I would even say that many people are more interested in getting to know scripture cognatively then they are in knowing God Himself Spiritually...otherwise there would not be the bitter arguments, quarrels and divisions that come from the carnal nature. (Gal.5:19-21) Now, it seems, that when you even suggest that there are those that might not be living Spiritually, folks feel threatened and say you're being judjemental and begin giving verse upon verse to back up their stance. Yet, this is sad to me, because I remember longing to grow more spiritually and remember gleaning much insight from fellow believers....well, anyway...

"Having a form of Godliness, but denying the power"

The just will live by faith. By faith I believe and know that God IS love....and not a fluffy love, but a powerful, agape-love that is VERY evidently God's prime motivation for everything He does and has done. His love IS unadulterated.....it is pure, as God is nothing but pure (God is light, and there is no darkness in Him)....altho the carnal mind cannot comprehend this...which is why many have a hard time understanding and therefore will naturally handle spiritual principles/concepts carnally. Example: when the carnal mind or spiritually immature mind reads or sees that God is love, it automatically thinks of the earthly, unstable, powerless love it has been familiar with. Therefore instead of realizing that scripture is unearthly/heavenly and therefore must be spiritually discerned.....they don't question themselves and their familiar definition of love and then put their carnal definition IN instead.

So, what should be happening, is we each need to start questioning our own definitions and perceptions and then start asking God to help us walk in the love and power of the Holy Spirit in order to truly comprehend the true meanings in scripture. The carnal mind has devised it's ways of understanding scripture....but that way just keeps doubling and furthering the divisions. If we are divided, it should be because people are afraid of the cross and the power they see...not because of disputes over interpretations. >>> Pls read 1 Cor. 1:10-2:16. Paul speaks about how 'the secret wisdom' (the underlying spiritual meanings) of God can only be revealed to the Spiritually-minded....and NOT to those with persuasive human wisdom.

When I was saved in the 70's, the power was evident and we learned that the prime interpretation of scripture came from getting to know God closely thru the Holy Spirit's guidance. We were taught the "rhema" word was different then the written word...and so the written word could ONLY be Spiritually discerned, which made it rhema. Where as now, it is intellectually 'discerned' most oftenly it seems. Of course Spiritual discernment was always built on learning biblical history, exegesis, and biblical criticism....however, when it came to Spiritual principles and the message scripture was trying to bring to us, we were taught that they can only be Spiritually discerned, therefore BY people who KNOW God and walk in His Holy Spirit.

Thank you for reading....

Pls take a few minutes and see how many divisions we have in the Christian church today....

< http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a120.htm >

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Edited June 4, 2010 by missjenny