By whose power?

[Guest HIS girl]

'nebula'

It's a little tricky trying to compare the two because the Egyptian magicians were practicing real witchcraft.

The ones in Matt. 7 weren't.

Well we don't really know that for a fact.

No we don't, so we can't just assume they were.

Occultism is included with lawlessness - sin...something as commonplace as reading the "stars" (zodiac) and some Christians do this, is under the occultic umbrella - lawlessness - sin.

These things don't require magic. Anyone can do these things.

"have we not prophesied in thy name?.......and in thy name done many wonderful works?"

I no longer take part in threads that go round and round the merry go round....

and I can see this will be one of them....

so my contribution ends here...

[enoob57]

Pharaohs sorcerers were able to copy several miraculous signs Moses and Aaron performed.

Exo 7:10-11 KJV

(10) And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the LORD had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.

(11) Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.

Exo 7:20-22 KJV

(20) And Moses and Aaron did so, as the LORD commanded; and he lifted up the rod, and smote the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh, and in the sight of his servants; and all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood.

(21) And the fish that was in the river died; and the river stank, and the Egyptians could not drink of the water of the river; and there was blood throughout all the land of Egypt.

(22) And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said.

Exo 8:6-7 KJV

(6) And Aaron stretched out his hand over the waters of Egypt; and the frogs came up, and covered the land of Egypt.

(7) And the magicians did so with their enchantments, and brought up frogs upon the land of Egypt.

Where did the power these sorcerers possessed come from?

Can it be said the source of the power the sorcerers of Pharaoh possessed is the source of the "wonderful works" the people claim in Matthew 7?

Mat 7:21-22 KJV

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Hi Brother of mine!

I have meditated and studied on the subject of miraculous signs. A lot of time! The flow of Scripture indicates that these facts are true:

Heb. 11:1- God wishes for us to walk by faith and not by sight... A spiritual connection of ourself-Holy Spirit-His Word.

Phil 2:6-9- That power as we perceive it ... is nothing to be considered in the obtaining of or the giving up.

1Cor 7:27-31- We can look in the wrong places in which to glorify God ... He is worthy of all glory as He directs us within to deliver unto Him!

Isa 41:1-2- We are as nothing yet in His greatness we have value to come and gather to His Word and become truth that is worth keeping.

The Word- That unbounded Father, Son, and Spirit exceed that which is created (in all ways) so that seeking is our everyday (glorious task) to know Him better. We do not look in the things God has determined to end for the things that are everlasting; it is these He will keep in His presence, eyes see, ears hear, spiritual does all this with out the need of the vehicle to do so!

In the last days people will be deceived by signs and wonders! They seek proof in the physical realm of the Spiritual realities of the miraculous abilities that lie within the testimony of His Word. They even do this to prove God is in themselves, they will deny this but turn right around and seek the doing of it to be satisfied with themselves in the things of the Lord! The question that lies with me in all this is why do they seek so much the proof of Him in the things He has already decided to burn up in the end? Why do they seek to have so much of this... which God does not even want to continue... but has specifically said I will burn this up and it will be no more! ARE WE NOT THE CHILDREN OF ETERNAL CHOICES OF OUR FATHER? If one is sick and we love them do we not go in hidden prayer that our tears may not be seen and beg our Father to heal them not doubting but believing He is able to do so. Yet He does not move as we ask.... or did He... I say we shall all be shamed when we are given sight of all He has done and the reason for which He did all things. He teaches us the system of the world is all in place to turn us from Him... so we must turn from the system and walk as aliens of this place thus why we need each other to encourage us in this task for it is hard and not easy and with struggles and great distress we are pleasantly turned to Him in a path that none of us can fully explain to the other but some how know that is the one we are on also! Seek Him in the love He has taught us and seek each other to help as in giving and not taking for He within us has endless resources in the things He intended to keep eternally... THE BEST BREAD I HAVE EVER EATEN WAS THE BREAD THAT CAME DIRECTLY FROM HIS HAND .... OH! I GUESS THAT IS ALL THE BREAD I HAVE EVER EATEN-WHETHER I WAS THANKFUL OR NOT AT THAT SPECIFIC TIME! Love Steven

[Guest man]

'nebula'

It's a little tricky trying to compare the two because the Egyptian magicians were practicing real witchcraft.

The ones in Matt. 7 weren't.

Well we don't really know that for a fact.

No we don't, so we can't just assume they were.

Occultism is included with lawlessness - sin...something as commonplace as reading the "stars" (zodiac) and some Christians do this, is under the occultic umbrella - lawlessness - sin.

These things don't require magic. Anyone can do these things.

"have we not prophesied in thy name?.......and in thy name done many wonderful works?"

I no longer take part in threads that go round and round the merry go round....

and I can see this will be one of them....

so my contribution ends here...

That's just sad.

[7thseal]

Do you have an explanation of how Sampson could be God's chosen and still live sinfully?

Did God choose from those sinless? Both then and now demonstrates His goodness... Following His words provides an huge deal.

[nebula]

Do you have an explanation of how Sampson could be God's chosen and still live sinfully?

No, I cannot - outside of God's mercy.

There's a verse that states His kindness draws us to repentance.

People mistake spiritual gifts and calling with maturity.

Yet in Acts, we see brand new believers operating in at least one of the spiritual gifts (tongues).

I do not believe Jesus was trying to make a point about where one's spiritual power came from, though. You need to read the context. He was making a point about how much more valuable good fruit is to spiritual power.

Thee is so little we understand about the spirit realm and how it interfaces with the physical world that we can really work ourselves into a titsy trying to figuring out how one has power and one does not, where one's power comes from, etc.

Suppose someone prophecies over you a word that confirms to you things the Lord has been speaking to you and this strengthens your faith. Then you discover this person is living a life of secret sin. Does that mean the prophetic word given you was not from the Lord?

I do not believe so.

We can't mix fruit with gifts, nor believe that one is dependent upon the other.

[Rick-Parker]

Everything that happens comes from one of two sources. God or Satan. And Satan can do nothing without the permission of God because God controls EVERYTHING.

[oldzimm]

Everything that happens comes from one of two sources. God or Satan. And Satan can do nothing without the permission of God because God controls EVERYTHING.

I agree with Parker1, I think Pharaoh's sorcerers were empowered by Satan. Satan does have power but as you can see with the sorcerers confrontation with Moses in a power dual (so to speak), Satan is way under gunned when his power is compared to God's power.

I can picture Satan as a little fly that bugs God and God just swats him down. What I can't figure out is why does Satan do all these evil things in the world when in the end he knows he is going to lose? Maybe Satan's biggest sin is pride, to proud to admit he is wrong regardless of what happens to him. (Just something to think about)

[Guest man]

Everything that happens comes from one of two sources. God or Satan. And Satan can do nothing without the permission of God because God controls EVERYTHING.

I agree with Parker1, I think Pharaoh's sorcerers were empowered by Satan. Satan does have power but as you can see with the sorcerers confrontation with Moses in a power dual (so to speak), Satan is way under gunned when his power is compared to God's power.

I can picture Satan as a little fly that bugs God and God just swats him down. What I can't figure out is why does Satan do all these evil things in the world when in the end he knows he is going to lose? Maybe Satan's biggest sin is pride, to proud to admit he is wrong regardless of what happens to him. (Just something to think about)

He knows he's doomed, so he's gonna take as many with him as he can.

[oldzimm]

Everything that happens comes from one of two sources. God or Satan. And Satan can do nothing without the permission of God because God controls EVERYTHING.

I agree with Parker1, I think Pharaoh's sorcerers were empowered by Satan. Satan does have power but as you can see with the sorcerers confrontation with Moses in a power dual (so to speak), Satan is way under gunned when his power is compared to God's power.

I can picture Satan as a little fly that bugs God and God just swats him down. What I can't figure out is why does Satan do all these evil things in the world when in the end he knows he is going to lose? Maybe Satan's biggest sin is pride, to proud to admit he is wrong regardless of what happens to him. (Just something to think about)

He knows he's doomed, so he's gonna take as many with him as he can.

Good answer.

[nebula]

(quote name='agua' post='1572284' date='Jun 25 2010, 06:07 AM']Pharaohs sorcerers were able to copy several miraculous signs Moses and Aaron performed.

Exo 7:10-11 KJV

(10) And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the LORD had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.

(11) Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.

Exo 7:20-22 KJV

(20) And Moses and Aaron did so, as the LORD commanded; and he lifted up the rod, and smote the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh, and in the sight of his servants; and all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood.

(21) And the fish that was in the river died; and the river stank, and the Egyptians could not drink of the water of the river; and there was blood throughout all the land of Egypt.

(22) And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said.

Exo 8:6-7 KJV

(6) And Aaron stretched out his hand over the waters of Egypt; and the frogs came up, and covered the land of Egypt.

(7) And the magicians did so with their enchantments, and brought up frogs upon the land of Egypt. <<--From here to the beginning of the post (The word "Pharaoh"), I highlighted and hit the Delete button on my keyboard.

Where did the power these sorcerers possessed come from?(/quote)

Enter

Enter

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(quote)Can it be said the source of the power the sorcerers of Pharaoh possessed is the source of the "wonderful works" the people claim in Matthew 7?(/quote)

(quote)Mat 7:21-22 KJV

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

(/quote)